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Thread: Rhinos

  1. #46
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    More than a big Fraud

    I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have the desire to change your mind. Can I suggest that you simmer down with the FRAUD, SCAM, MONEY ridiculousness. When you have done some research, got out from behind your computer and actually learned something about another person's business, life, livelihood...then come talking. Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting. The Leavell Foundation raises money for kids with scoliosis who desire treatment alternatives other than surgery. It is a decision that families make for themselves - no one is forcing them. Abby's treatment is costly over time, as well as other kids that come to the center. Dr. Jane runs a business and as much as she would like to treat everyone for free her doors would not be able to remain open. The goal is to allow anyone the choice of alternative treatment, regardless of their financial ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    If people treating her really believe that even if she continues with the treatment she will have a very short life, it's more than a big fraud. Parents know that?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    All I know is that my daughter had a 42 degree curve and reduced it to 27 degrees.
    Did they tell you this decrease was permanent?

    I see her x-rays,
    Has an orthopedic surgeon determined the Cobb angle?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting.
    Here's what people are basing their opinion on...

    Rhino = CLEAR = Chiro = Not a science.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have the desire to change your mind. Can I suggest that you simmer down with the FRAUD, SCAM, MONEY ridiculousness. When you have done some research, got out from behind your computer and actually learned something about another person's business, life, livelihood...then come talking. Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting. The Leavell Foundation raises money for kids with scoliosis who desire treatment alternatives other than surgery. It is a decision that families make for themselves - no one is forcing them. Abby's treatment is costly over time, as well as other kids that come to the center. Dr. Jane runs a business and as much as she would like to treat everyone for free her doors would not be able to remain open. The goal is to allow anyone the choice of alternative treatment, regardless of their financial ability.
    It is not projecting to see an innocent young girl with a 143o curve being used as a "poster child" to solicit money that people THINK is going toward saving HER life.

    It is not projecting to see an innocent young girl with a curve so huge that it is already life threatening NOT being treated by a real doctor. This Flerc that you just replied to is THE BIGGEST proponent of alternative non-surgical approaches to treating scoliosis that I've ever seen. This is a life and death situation for this young lady. This treatment may work for YOUR child who does NOT have a life threatening curve. This child, Abby, is going to die a young and terrifying death if she doesn't get help, real help, really soon.

    Have YOU ever seen someone dying of scoliosis? They wear oxygen and fight for every breath. They become so weak that they cannot do anything. Abby may be running down the halls now. Wouldn't it be nice to see her do that when she's 40, 50, or 60 years old? You have stated that she probably won't live past her twenties. Is that acceptable to you? Would that be acceptable for YOUR child? The problem here is, Abby doesn't have a choice. I'm sure she's been convinced by "Dr. Jane" and her parents that everything is being done that can be done. I'm sure she likes her visits to Rhino and loves the people there. What a child doesn't have the capacity to see is what is going to happen down the road as she is dying. The young developing brain just isn't programmed to see "the end".

    Most everyone on here is kindhearted. Seeing something like this is shocking. Seeing a chiropractor take this on is even more shocking. There is a huge difference between working on people with non-life threatening curves and ones that are already slowly killing a child. How did this curve get this bad in the first place? Who was looking out for this child? That's where the anger comes in. There is no excuse in this day and age to let this happen. Not in this country anyway. So where was the preventative treatment? If she had any, it obviously didn't work. These machines and exercises aren't going to reduce her curve to a safe level. She is already compromised. Why say a surgery "might" kill her and in the same breath say that the scoliosis WILL kill her (not until her 20's of course)? That's why I said this is just sickening. It should have never got this bad to begin with. There's just too much new technology out there that could have helped her.

    By the way, my friend that is dying is dying because she had a parent that refused to get her treatment as a child for fear she "might" die. When she turned 18 she HAD her surgery. By then it wasn't good enough. She's in her mid 50's now and is dying. Even to her, living into her 50's isn't enough. She's devastated. It all could have been avoided by better parental choice and the choices back then were dismal compared to what they can do today.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I doubt very much this girl could be a real case. I personally know people with 'giant' curves over 80 in perfect state really, but 143.. if it would be true she should to be running a serious life risk. What if she really dies? I cannot believe they may be so fool..
    Strange that the head X-ray is a different one than the body X-ray. Looks like 2 X-rays are glued together. Her shoulders appear to be fairly straight in the photo, but marked distorted on the X-ray. I believe that the photo is a different person and the X-ray is a contrived X-ray of 2 different people.

    Re: her Facebook only has a cartoon sketch for her picture. Strange as the Rhino "ask" for $ for her treatment has the photo of a very photogenic young lady. She also has NO pictures on her Facebook of anyone that tagged her in a photo and that must be almost impossible for a teenager. My conclusion: The Facebook is totally bogus.
    Susan
    Last edited by susancook; 02-12-2014 at 03:16 AM.
    2011: Degenerative Adult Onset Scoliosis @65
    25* T levoscoliosis/ 36* L dexroscoliosis w/ 11.2 cm coronal & 3.5 cm sagittal balance T kyphosis 90*
    Severe disc degen thoracic & lumbar stenosis
    Surgery: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
    3/2013, Dr. Hu @ UCSF
    Postop hernia @ ALIF incision repaired 2014
    8/2014: Rev surgery OHSU Dr. Hiratzka hardware removal T3-T5; reinstrument & revision fusion T3-T6
    Proximal Junctional Failure w/ SCI
    Cauda Equina Syndrome

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Rhino = CLEAR = Chiro. Agreed?

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-chiropractic/

    1. Is Chiropractic a science? NO
    2. Is Chiropractic based on neurology, anatomy and physiology? NO
    3. Are Chiropractors doctors of the nervous system? NO
    4. Does Chiropractic improve health and quality of life? NO

    --------------

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-chiropractic/
    My concern about chiropractic treatments is that they are not evidence based.
    Susan
    2011: Degenerative Adult Onset Scoliosis @65
    25* T levoscoliosis/ 36* L dexroscoliosis w/ 11.2 cm coronal & 3.5 cm sagittal balance T kyphosis 90*
    Severe disc degen thoracic & lumbar stenosis
    Surgery: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
    3/2013, Dr. Hu @ UCSF
    Postop hernia @ ALIF incision repaired 2014
    8/2014: Rev surgery OHSU Dr. Hiratzka hardware removal T3-T5; reinstrument & revision fusion T3-T6
    Proximal Junctional Failure w/ SCI
    Cauda Equina Syndrome

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have the desire to change your mind. Can I suggest that you simmer down with the FRAUD, SCAM, MONEY ridiculousness. When you have done some research, got out from behind your computer and actually learned something about another person's business, life, livelihood...then come talking. Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting. The Leavell Foundation raises money for kids with scoliosis who desire treatment alternatives other than surgery. It is a decision that families make for themselves - no one is forcing them. Abby's treatment is costly over time, as well as other kids that come to the center. Dr. Jane runs a business and as much as she would like to treat everyone for free her doors would not be able to remain open. The goal is to allow anyone the choice of alternative treatment, regardless of their financial ability.
    The Leavall Foundation, according to their website, raises money for patients to attend the Rhino Chiropractic, not just for people who want alternatives to surgery, but might want another form of therapy at another institution. Is Rhino "not-for-profit" institution, defined as a 501c3?

    This whole conversation is getting too weird and there are too many inconsistencies in Abby's story, photo/X-ray/Facebook, so I chose not to spend anymore time on this thread.
    Susan
    2011: Degenerative Adult Onset Scoliosis @65
    25* T levoscoliosis/ 36* L dexroscoliosis w/ 11.2 cm coronal & 3.5 cm sagittal balance T kyphosis 90*
    Severe disc degen thoracic & lumbar stenosis
    Surgery: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
    3/2013, Dr. Hu @ UCSF
    Postop hernia @ ALIF incision repaired 2014
    8/2014: Rev surgery OHSU Dr. Hiratzka hardware removal T3-T5; reinstrument & revision fusion T3-T6
    Proximal Junctional Failure w/ SCI
    Cauda Equina Syndrome

  8. #53
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    This is, on the whole, an excellent and very supportive forum which also has lively debates regarding the pros and cons of surgical and nonsurgical treatments. Although I am an admin at the UK's Scoliosis Support forum, I am a member here too because I can learn a lot from the members here and we are all in this scoliosis thing together. I often encourage members at SSO to join up here too, especially if they are from the US as there is always someone who can give them useful and accurate information. I am also a member of our National Health Service's Complex Spinal Surgery group that consists mainly of the country's top scoliosis surgeons and meets every month, so it is good for me to keep my finger on the pulse of technologies and treatments that are being used around the world.

    Your own daughter is not yet in danger so I am not going to comment on her. But as has been pointed out, even Flerc - possibly the most vocal of all pro-nonsurgical members - is shocked that Abby "is going to die in her twenties" because she has not been treated surgically. I'm sure Dr Jane's intentions are good, but I'm still confused as to why, when you say she is treating Abby for free, there is a need to raise huge amounts of money for her treatment. What is this money for? I agree with Susan, there are so many inconsistencies in this story.

    I just hope Abby does not end up like my dear friend, who, in her fifties, is permanently hooked up to oxygen due to not receiving adequate care for her scoliosis when she was younger. Surgery on a young person with a huge curve is usually possible, but the dangers increase as people age and it is too late for my friend. Her curves were over 155 degrees last time they were measured. She is often laid low with chest infections and minor illnesses that most people would shake off easily.

    I started off on my scoliosis journey with a 64/40 degree double major curve at the age of 6 months, and I am so incredibly thankful that I was looked after by a brilliant orthopaedic surgeon who did his very best for me. I've had a lot of surgery through the years, and I spend my free time hillwalking, hiking and cycling - in fact, despite having developed a completely unrelated disease, I'm going to be spending the next week doing all of these things *smiley face*

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have the desire to change your mind. Can I suggest that you simmer down with the FRAUD, SCAM, MONEY ridiculousness. When you have done some research, got out from behind your computer and actually learned something about another person's business, life, livelihood...then come talking. Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting. The Leavell Foundation raises money for kids with scoliosis who desire treatment alternatives other than surgery. It is a decision that families make for themselves - no one is forcing them. Abby's treatment is costly over time, as well as other kids that come to the center. Dr. Jane runs a business and as much as she would like to treat everyone for free her doors would not be able to remain open. The goal is to allow anyone the choice of alternative treatment, regardless of their financial ability.
    You are a plant from Rhino in my opinion.

    You are a walking advertisement for why we need Chirobase.

    Chiros have no training to be treating scoliosis progression.

    http://www.chirobase.org/

    Accurate information about chiropractic is not easy to get. Most publishers, editors, and broadcasters are unwilling to examine this topic in depth and to publish critical information. As a result, most reports reaching the public express what chiropractors would like people to believe. This Web site will enable you to deepen your understanding. If you decide to seek chiropractic care, it may also help you find a suitable practitioner.
    About Chirobase

    Mission Statement and FAQs (updated 1/8/08)
    Most Recent Additions to Our Sites (link to Quackwatch)
    About Drs. Barrett and Homola (updated 4/18/08)
    How to Become a Quackwatch Advisor (posted 6/16/10)
    Cheers and Jeers: Comments from Visitors (updated 5/20/13) FEATURE
    Publications for Sale (updated 12/13/01)
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    General Articles

    Why Chiropractic Is Controversial (updated 2/9/00)
    Chiropractic: A Skeptical View (updated 4/28/00)
    Subluxations: Chiropractic's Elusive Buzzword (updated 5/21/06)
    How Subluxation Theory Threatens Public Health (posted 12/22/02)
    Don't Let Chiropractors Fool You (updated 9/17/99)
    Take It from a D.C.: A Lot of Chiropractic Is a Sham (1990) (posted 11/24/98)
    Do "Pinched Nerves" Reduce the Flow of "Nerve Energy"? (posted 1/21/98)
    Institute for Science in Medicine White Paper (2012) (link to another site)
    NCAHF Position Paper on Chiropractic (1985) (link to another site)
    NCAHF Fact Sheet on Chiropractic (2001) (link to another site)
    Placebos, Nocebos, and Chiropractic Adjustments (posted 12/19/02)
    Be Wary of Chiropractic Pediatrics (posted 8/12/10)
    Canadian Paediatric Society Position Paper (link to another site)
    Medical Letter Report on Spinal Manipulation (link to another site)
    Chiropractic Opposition to Immunization (updated 10/17/02)
    A Message to Chiropractors from Dr. Barrett (1990) (posted 11/4/98)
    Views of a Reformist Chiropractor (link to another site)
    Why Becoming a Chiropractor May Be Risky (posted 12/22/98)
    Can Chiropractic Become a Respected Mainstream Profession? (posted 2/25/09) FEATURE
    Glossary of Chiropractic Terms (updated 12/5/07)
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    Chiropractic's Dirty Secret: Neck Manipulation and Strokes (link to Quackwatch)
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    Coroner's Jury Concludes That Neck Manipulation Killed Canadian Woman (posted 1/22/04)
    Malpractice Is an Inevitable Result of Chiropractic Philosophy and Training (1979) (posted 11/7/98)
    Chiropractic Stroke Awareness Group

    Questionable Practice-Building Techniques

    The Selling of the Spine (updated 2/16/03)
    A Brief Look at a Subluxation-Based Practice-Building Script (posted 10/6/04)
    Advice from the American Chiropractic Association (1984) (posted 12/14/98)
    Chiropractic Response to Terrorism: Have Your Spine Adjusted (posted 9/15/01)
    Echiropractic Greeting and Reminder Cards (posted 10/1/00)
    Ten Ways Chiropractors Sell Themselves to Parents (posted 11/22/98)
    Thirty-Seven Narratives for "Patient Education" (posted 9/3/00)
    Patient Media's Drug Ad Post-It Notes (posted 8/21/02)
    Some Notes on Big Idea Enterprises (posted 9/9/02)
    Don't Fall for Chiropractic Telemarketing Scams
    Chiropractor Disciplined for Inappropriate Solicitation (posted 6/19/02)
    Australian Court Agrees That Subluxation-Based Chiropractor Recommended Excessive Care (posted 8/29/06)
    How Two "Pediatric Chiropractic" Leaders Advise Chiropractors to Undermine Pediatrician Credibility (posted 5/18/08)

    Occupational Outlook for Chiropractors

    Analysis of the Chiropractic Section of the 2002 Occupational Outlook Handbook (posted 2/22/04)
    Analysis of the Chiropractic Section of the 2010-11 Occupational Outlook Handbook (posted 7/11/10)

    Victim Reports and Other Personal Experiences

    Canadian Chiropractor Sued after Child Is Paralyzed (posted 10/18/01)
    How a Chiropractor Scared Me into Coming Back (posted 1/4/00)
    How a Chiropractor Ruined My Life (posted 6/11/01)
    "Only" $2,597 for Intensive Chiropractic Care (posted 6/26/01)
    The Job Interview I Didn't Have (updated 7/12/01)
    My Experience with an Unethical Chiropractor (posted 9/15/02)
    Why I Quit Chiropractic (updated 12/30/07)
    Chiropractic Victim Support Group (updated 2/11/00)

    Journal Articles

    A Scientific Test of Chiropractic's Subluxation Theory (1973) (posted 11/1/98)
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    How Five Chiropractors Misdiagnosed a Healthy Child (posted 9/14/04)
    Chiro: How Much Healing? How Much Flim-Flam? (posted 7/29/12)
    "Dr. Bob" Martin's online nutrition tests (posted 2/19/00)
    Chiropractors Wangle Medicare Windfall (1972) (posted 11/6/98)
    Inside View of the American Chiropractic Association (1981) (posted 11/5/98)
    Inside View of a Chiropractic Office (posted 7/14/97)
    A Close Look at a Chiropractic "Nutrition" Seminar (1988) (posted 11/22/99)
    Some Notes on Kurt W. Donsbach, D.C. (link to another site)
    Some Notes on the Activities and Credential of Jay Holder, D.C. (updated 2/24/00)
    Some Notes on Fred L. Stoner, D.C., and Applied Kinesiology (posted 4/28/01)
    Chiropractic's Subluxation-Based "Guidelines"
    Manipulating Children: Pediatric Chiropractic: Bogus Diagnoses, Illegal Machines, and Useless Treatments (link to another site)
    Analysis of a Misleading Chiropractic Article in a Major Medical Journal (posted 3/19/03)
    Silly Chiropractic Advice about Obesity Prevention (posted 4/12/03)
    The Shady History of Royal Lee and Standard Process Laboratories (link to Quackwatch)

    Questionable Diagnostic and Treatment Practices

    Active Release Techniques (posted 1/23/08)
    Activator Methods (updated 3/25/06)
    Advanced BioStructural Correction (posted 3/7/03)
    Alphabiotics (posted 2/12/02)
    Applied Kinesiology (updated 11/23/00)

    (etc.)
    Last edited by Pooka1; 02-12-2014 at 07:03 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #55
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    Check this out

    Leavell is the chiro. I've highlighted the more amazing statements. "Decade-long history of success." She is talking about Clear so that is a non-sequitor. Maybe Leavell will post the evidence.

    http://www.rhinosc.com/the-leavell-foundation/

    The Leavell Foundation

    Dr. Jane Leavell is the founder of The Leavell Foundation, which is being formed as a 501(c)(3) non – profit organization, to raise funds for the programs, services and medical technology of Rhino Scoliosis Center through individual donations, major gifts, grants, planned gifts, and special events. The Foundation is the charitable arm of a small, but powerful and highly specialized healthcare facility, a clinic dedicated not only to improving spines, but also to encouraging minds.

    Internationally known for their success in treating patients with scoliosis and Scheuermann’s Disease (Kyphosis), Rhino Scoliosis Center accepts patients that other facilities do not have the expertise to help. Rhino is unparalleled in helping patients avoid bracing and surgery. Rhino Scoliosis Center is committed to providing non-bracing non-surgical solutions for people with Scoliosis and Scheuermann’s Disease.

    Rhino’s excellence in patient care and innovation, along with their decade-long history of success, has led them to be sought after by people with some of the most severe cases. One of these is Abby, an adorable 14-year-old girl who inspired Dr. Leavell to form The Leavell Foundation. Dr. Leavell realized that the need for long-term care can be prohibitively expensive for many families, as it is for Abby’s. Dr. Leavell’s dream is that all children with scoliosis can get the care they need at Rhino Scoliosis Center without restrictions created by personal economic hardships. This is being made possible by the generous donations of time and money from corporations and individuals alike. We thank all of you for helping make the future of so many kids incredibly brighter.

    Please join us in our mission and learn more about Abby’s Road, and share this with everyone you can.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohnkes4 View Post
    I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have the desire to change your mind. Can I suggest that you simmer down with the FRAUD, SCAM, MONEY ridiculousness. When you have done some research, got out from behind your computer and actually learned something about another person's business, life, livelihood...then come talking. Otherwise you have nothing to base your opinions on and you are just projecting. The Leavell Foundation raises money for kids with scoliosis who desire treatment alternatives other than surgery. It is a decision that families make for themselves - no one is forcing them. Abby's treatment is costly over time, as well as other kids that come to the center. Dr. Jane runs a business and as much as she would like to treat everyone for free her doors would not be able to remain open. The goal is to allow anyone the choice of alternative treatment, regardless of their financial ability.
    I’m not against CLEAR and I’m really far to be against any Foundation giving the choice of alternative treatments which really works. Even I also don’t deny the possibility of such amazing correction in a super giant curve, I believe something very difficult and surely impossible for someone using only chiropractic resources. To get more flexibility, adjusting vertebras displacement and helping stability provoking some changes in the disks/joints tripod, sure should to be good in not so much frightening curves. But CLEAR practitioners goes beyond chiropractic practices, talking into account many different principles so probably they could do something so amazing, I don’t know.

    But if they believe that anyway this girl will live by only few years, of course it would be more than a big fraude. They should to say this to her parents and recommend to see a surgeon . Scoliosis surgery was invented to save lives.
    Last edited by flerc; 02-12-2014 at 09:39 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    But CLEAR practitioners goes beyond chiropractic practices, talking into account many different principles so probably they could do something so amazing, I dont know.
    There is no evidence it works to save people from surgery.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #58
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    How do you know that?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    How do you know that?
    If you think there is evidence then post the link to the research.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #60
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    You are affirming they never saved nobody from surgery, so YOU MUST to prove that.

    Don't use this thread to promote surgery defaming all non surgical options as is clear to be your only purpose here. This is a very much serious issue. Try to behave as good person. Do the effort

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