Rhinos

[rohnkes4]

Someone knows something anout this?
http://www.rhinosc.com/

I have first hand experience with Rhino and Dr. Jane. My daughter is treated at this Center and it has given hope and life back to her. Abby is real. Absolutely real and I think you should all stop and think before you project to know her, her parents or Dr. Jane. Dr. Jane does treat her for free - this is over 80,000 dollars of Dr. Jane's time, energy and $ - all goes to Abby. She does anything and everything that this girl needs. No, she will probably not live through her twenties, however, she is living and experiencing life without major pain or life threatening surgeries. If she has surgery, she has a great chance of dying and surgery is not the fix all - years of pain and disability. This girl races me down the hall (to improve her lungs) and she kicks my butt. Dr. Jane only treats scoliosis patients - this is her specialty - if you don't know anything about her certifications and qualifications, I'd look into it before you condemn someone who has given their life to try and help any and all scoliosis sufferers. Surgeons and the traditional medical field aren't curing, fixing or alleviating the problems associated with scoliosis.

[rohnkes4]

I have first hand experience with Rhino and Dr. Jane. My daughter is treated at this Center and it has given hope and life back to her. Abby is real. Absolutely real and I think you should all stop and think before you project to know her, her parents or Dr. Jane. Dr. Jane does treat her for free - this is over 80,000 dollars of Dr. Jane's time, energy and $ - all goes to Abby. She does anything and everything that this girl needs. No, she will probably not live through her twenties, however, she is living and experiencing life without major pain or life threatening surgeries. If she has surgery, she has a great chance of dying and surgery is not the fix all - years of pain and disability. This girl races me down the hall (to improve her lungs) and she kicks my butt. Dr. Jane only treats scoliosis patients - this is her specialty - if you don't know anything about her certifications and qualifications, I'd look into it before you condemn someone who has given their life to try and help any and all scoliosis sufferers. Surgeons and the traditional medical field aren't curing, fixing or alleviating the problems associated with scoliosis.

[tonibunny]

"No, she will probably not live through her twenties, however, she is living and experiencing life without major pain or life threatening surgeries"

And yet my friend who had surgery on her 140+ degree curves in her 30s now has stabilised curves of around 70 degrees and is out living her life without fear that she is going to die due to her scoliosis! Since having this surgery she's moved abroad to live with her partner and is studying for another degree as she's looking forward to forging a new career. Abby's life is already being threatened - I don't see the logic in not getting the very best surgical treatment Shriners can provide, and if she were my daughter I wouldn't sit around thinking "oh she has a nice life now, shame she will probably die young".

If Abby is getting her treatment for free, may I ask why there is a need to raise money for her?

I am not always pro-surgery, anti-nonsurgical treatments by any means but seriously, surgeons DO alleviate and fix problems caused by scoliosis. They've done so for myself and have done so for many people I have known over the years.

[flerc]

Is very difficult for me to believe in a reduction close to 25% in such super giant curve.. the lack of x-ray does it more difficult. But anyway if the prognosis from people treating her is so bad that not believe she may live more than only some few years more, that treatment is not useful. Nobody should to prevent her to visit a surgeon.

[rohrer01]

You are saying that everyone with a curve > 50° need surgery, I think is something under discussion but I respect anyway your opinion.

No, I never said everyone with a curve >50^o needs surgery. Did I post that somewhere? If I did, I'd like to see it. You are getting defensive again because you are arguing with Pooka1. I said curves >50^o will progress. But I may be wrong on that. I believe that it is common knowledge that curves >50^o are likely to progress. So correct me there. Please don't put words in my mouth that I believe EVERYONE in that range needs surgery. That just isn't the case.

[rohrer01]

I have first hand experience with Rhino and Dr. Jane. My daughter is treated at this Center and it has given hope and life back to her. Abby is real. Absolutely real and I think you should all stop and think before you project to know her, her parents or Dr. Jane. Dr. Jane does treat her for free - this is over 80,000 dollars of Dr. Jane's time, energy and $ - all goes to Abby. She does anything and everything that this girl needs. No, she will probably not live through her twenties, however, she is living and experiencing life without major pain or life threatening surgeries. If she has surgery, she has a great chance of dying and surgery is not the fix all - years of pain and disability. This girl races me down the hall (to improve her lungs) and she kicks my butt. Dr. Jane only treats scoliosis patients - this is her specialty - if you don't know anything about her certifications and qualifications, I'd look into it before you condemn someone who has given their life to try and help any and all scoliosis sufferers. Surgeons and the traditional medical field aren't curing, fixing or alleviating the problems associated with scoliosis.

That right there is malpractice if there is a chance to give this girl a normal life. Look up Elias... He had a curve of similar magnitude. He's almost all straightened up, living the normal life of a teenager. His parents weren't content to sit back and watch him die at the hands of a chiropractor. Chiropractic works for PAIN sometimes. I went to one and my curve worsened. This child deserves to live. If she has pain, there are ways to treat that. The whole thing makes me literally sick to hear someone ADMITTING she's going to die young from scoliosis. That's totally unnecessary! I have shivers... just the horror that girl will experience while she's dying.
I have a friend dying from scoliosis. It gets to a certain point that they can't help you because your body is so compromised. Do you really think that "in her twenties" she's going to want to die, from a treatable disease no less? This is just sick.

[rohrer01]

...and if she's being treated for FREE, why is "Dr." Jane soliciting MONEY to help this girl!? This woman ought to know her limits and CLEARly does NOT. Not only is she condemning this girl to death, she is using her as a "poster child" to solicit funds from a society that doesn't understand this disease. This solicitation clearly makes it sound like the funds are needed to save Abby's life. So, whoever you are, you've just admitted that this is all a big FRAUD and a SCAM for MONEY.

[flerc]

No, I never said everyone with a curve >50^o needs surgery. Did I post that somewhere? If I did, I'd like to see it. You are getting defensive again because you are arguing with Pooka1. I said curves >50^o will progress. But I may be wrong on that. I believe that it is common knowledge that curves >50^o are likely to progress. So correct me there. Please don't put words in my mouth that I believe EVERYONE in that range needs surgery. That just isn't the case.

No please! What Pooka1 may say believe me never could provoke in me something as what you say.
Yes, I interpreted this 'Did they not tell this girl that anything over 50o will progress? as a certainty, not only a possibility. And adding this: 'If she continues on, this WILL kill her. There is no way that these Rhino people are going to get that curve under 50o! ' it seemed for me you was saying that she necessary must to be under 50º.
It surprised me to read that, but I know you are not trying to convince nobody about nothing, so it cannot upset me. In other forum I had extreme friendly chats with people absolutely convinced that only surgery works and we both respected what the other think. Every one is free to think what wants to think. Try to convince of course is something very much different.

[flerc]

...and if she's being treated for FREE, why is "Dr." Jane soliciting MONEY to help this girl!? This woman ought to know her limits and CLEARly does NOT. Not only is she condemning this girl to death, she is using her as a "poster child" to solicit funds from a society that doesn't understand this disease. This solicitation clearly makes it sound like the funds are needed to save Abby's life. So, whoever you are, you've just admitted that this is all a big FRAUD and a SCAM for MONEY.

If people treating her really believe that even if she continues with the treatment she will have a very short life, it's more than a big fraud. Parents know that?

[LindaRacine]

rohnkes4...

Any chance you can get Abby to post a newer radiograph? I'd REALLY like to follow her. I'm sorry it appears that she and her family aren't interested in surgery. It is VERY rare that anyone with scoliosis dies as a result of surgery. Abby's life expectancy would probably be somewhere like 4-5 times higher if she chose surgery over chiropractic. Needing scoliosis surgery really sucks, but I can tell you that it's better than doing nothing and dying from the effects of scoliosis. If you're interested, there are hundreds of stories of people, including myself, who have had successful scoliosis surgery.

I don't know what the financial situation is, but I'm almost 100% certain that Shriner's would do her surgery at absolutely no cost to her family. There is a Shriner's hospital in Denver:

4625 W 50th Ave
Denver, CO 80212
(303) 455-3470

I've seen similar scenarios many times over the last 20 years, with people making what seems like unreasonable claims. It's always a little fishy. (For example, the fact that you joined this group just a day after the original post in this thread.) I've been involved in news groups, forums, and listservs on the topic of scoliosis, since the early days of the internet. There have been so many scams over the years, that I can't keep track of them all. The pattern is pretty much always the same. There's always someone who tries to convince everyone that treatment X is a miracle cure. Eventually, they've all been debunked, but not before a lot of innocent people have spent a lot of money.

There has NEVER been a single study showing that chiropractic treatment (including CLEAR) can permanently reduce structural scoliosis curves. I suspect there's an obvious reason for that, but would love to be proven wrong. As someone who believes in science, I need more proof than just a bunch of claims by people who have a financial interest in the results. At one point several years ago, we had a CLEAR practitioner who posted on here or another scoliosis forum (can't remember which), and who was willing to treat a patient for free, and to have the patient monitored by an orthopaedic scoliosis expert. When all the arrangements had been made, the chiropractor suddenly stopped posting. If Abby is willing, I could probably find an orthopaedist who is willing to follow her for free. I'm happy to make the effort at the very least.

Regards,
Linda

[Pooka1]

I have first hand experience with Rhino and Dr. Jane. My daughter is treated at this Center and it has given hope and life back to her. Abby is real. Absolutely real and I think you should all stop and think before you project to know her, her parents or Dr. Jane. Dr. Jane does treat her for free - this is over 80,000 dollars of Dr. Jane's time, energy and $ - all goes to Abby. She does anything and everything that this girl needs. No, she will probably not live through her twenties, however, she is living and experiencing life without major pain or life threatening surgeries. If she has surgery, she has a great chance of dying and surgery is not the fix all - years of pain and disability. This girl races me down the hall (to improve her lungs) and she kicks my butt. Dr. Jane only treats scoliosis patients - this is her specialty - if you don't know anything about her certifications and qualifications, I'd look into it before you condemn someone who has given their life to try and help any and all scoliosis sufferers. Surgeons and the traditional medical field aren't curing, fixing or alleviating the problems associated with scoliosis.

Can you post any of the million radiographs the Clear chiros take from before and after the treatment?

Also, did the chiros tell you any decrease in the curve was permanent and your daughter could stop the PT?

Also, how much money have you paid so far and how much more will you have to pay?

Thanks in advance.

[Pooka1]

If she has surgery, she has a great chance of dying

Is that because the parents wasted time with chiros instead of taking the child for real treatment by orthopedic surgeons sooner?

[rohnkes4]

Linda, I'll let Abby know that there are caring individuals that would like to follow her along her journey. I don't know everything that her family has considered for her treatment, I just know where she is at right now. My response today was because a friend on this site knew our family had experience with the Rhino Scoliosis Center and wanted me to respond to the questions people were asking so I joined to share my viewpoint. I'm no medical doctor and I can only speak for my own personal interactions and successes that my daughter has had at RSC. I'm also not professing a cure. Scoliosis is baffling to me and I think what might be helpful to one person, may not for another. I find it offensive that people on this site start calling out scams and calling child protective services and such. Unless you've been to someone's clinic, spoken with the families treated there and experienced the process and science behind their treatment - then I don't think you can make such judgments. I have no financial interest in RSC. All I know is that my daughter had a 42 degree curve and reduced it to 27 degrees. I see her x-rays, I see her posture pics...I see HER...the proof is there. The proof is also that she is healthy, pain free and not wearing a brace or facing steel rods in her back that would drastically alter her life.

rohnkes4...

Any chance you can get Abby to post a newer radiograph? I'd REALLY like to follow her. I'm sorry it appears that she and her family aren't interested in surgery. It is VERY rare that anyone with scoliosis dies as a result of surgery. Abby's life expectancy would probably be somewhere like 4-5 times higher if she chose surgery over chiropractic. Needing scoliosis surgery really sucks, but I can tell you that it's better than doing nothing and dying from the effects of scoliosis. If you're interested, there are hundreds of stories of people, including myself, who have had successful scoliosis surgery.

I don't know what the financial situation is, but I'm almost 100% certain that Shriner's would do her surgery at absolutely no cost to her family. There is a Shriner's hospital in Denver:

4625 W 50th Ave
Denver, CO 80212
(303) 455-3470

I've seen similar scenarios many times over the last 20 years, with people making what seems like unreasonable claims. It's always a little fishy. (For example, the fact that you joined this group just a day after the original post in this thread.) I've been involved in news groups, forums, and listservs on the topic of scoliosis, since the early days of the internet. There have been so many scams over the years, that I can't keep track of them all. The pattern is pretty much always the same. There's always someone who tries to convince everyone that treatment X is a miracle cure. Eventually, they've all been debunked, but not before a lot of innocent people have spent a lot of money.

There has NEVER been a single study showing that chiropractic treatment (including CLEAR) can permanently reduce structural scoliosis curves. I suspect there's an obvious reason for that, but would love to be proven wrong. As someone who believes in science, I need more proof than just a bunch of claims by people who have a financial interest in the results. At one point several years ago, we had a CLEAR practitioner who posted on here or another scoliosis forum (can't remember which), and who was willing to treat a patient for free, and to have the patient monitored by an orthopaedic scoliosis expert. When all the arrangements had been made, the chiropractor suddenly stopped posting. If Abby is willing, I could probably find an orthopaedist who is willing to follow her for free. I'm happy to make the effort at the very least.

Regards,
Linda

[rohnkes4]

Are you in the medical field, or something related, that qualifies you to judge the center's treatment? Do you even know what they do? Do you know what their patients and families experiences/results are? The orthopedic surgeon we went to at Panorama Orthopedics barely looked at my kid...just said come back in 6 months and we'll schedule surgery. Is that what you think is the most responsible? For some it may be, however, for our family it was most certainly not. I'm just shocked at the negativity in this forum versus the "Hey, we are all touched by this horrible thing called scoliosis, how can we help each other?" I would never condemn another's choice if it was the best choice for them.

Is that because the parents wasted time with chiros instead of taking the child for real treatment by orthopedic surgeons sooner?

[Pooka1]

Rhino = CLEAR = Chiro. Agreed?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-chiropractic/

1. Is Chiropractic a science? NO
2. Is Chiropractic based on neurology, anatomy and physiology? NO
3. Are Chiropractors doctors of the nervous system? NO
4. Does Chiropractic improve health and quality of life? NO

--------------

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...-chiropractic/