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Thread: Bracing in adults to prevent scoliosis progression

  1. #106
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    Jun 2005
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Thx Jin

    From 50 degree curves at age 16 to 70 degree curves over 34 years is actually slow.....my decision to have surgery was all about pain from degeneration, not the curves. I didn’t let the deformity bother me...(I have a lifelong friend with a wooden leg, one with MS, a brother with Kleinfelter, and my dad had ALS. Its hard for me to complain when others are worse off.

    I considered bracing just one of the things that we do..... Like another tool in the tool box..... Like another bottle of aspirin in the medicine cabinet.....and we do run for the aspirin if we have a headache, even if we have not eaten....I didn’t have much faith that bracing would correct my thoracic curve. I was hopeful for a slight correction in my lumbar, and that did happen, but bracing program’s involve work and pain.....

    What happens with all of us is that we change, and that goes for bracing. How many bracers have braced for their whole lives? I don’t think I could have braced my whole life even if it worked well. Degeneration catches up with all of us, and time flies fast. It goes slow when you are young, and speeds up as you age, that’s why you need to have as much fun as possible right now. Either work hard or play hard or do both, try not to dwell too much on your scoliosis....

    There are no guarantees with bracing, or surgery. Just stats. If something goes wrong with bracing, set it on fire. If something goes wrong with surgery, you have a problem.

    Are you cracking your back? Are you twisting to get relief from the binding in your thoracic?

    Ed
    I see. You have discogenic pain, that's why the brace won't work as well as it only mostly addresses muscular related pain from not being able to hold your spine together. Did the surgery alleviate you of your pain from degenerative discs, what would you say your pain levels are now from a scale of 1-10? But since your entire spine is fused, it must be hard to move about, as you now rely most of your movement from your thighs and hips?

    My curve is in the thoracic so I doubt I will ever have discogenic issues since most occur in the lumbar area exacerbated by a lumbar curve. But I do have muscular related pain especially in my thoracic concavity. I do crack my back and derotate my ribs as part of my exercise regimen. My use of a brace is more due to my sitting and working all the time, it makes me feel less compressed.

    @ 3sisters: I'm not interested in VBT since it is a very new surgery. I'm not interested in any surgery without at least a 20 yr follow up, otherwise I feel like a guinea pig going into it.
    Last edited by Jinseeker; 02-17-2016 at 03:45 AM.
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    237
    http://www.treatingscoliosis.com/blo...ty-suit


    Can anyone other than the chiros who push this explain how it could actually reduce curves as claimed?

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinseeker View Post
    I see. You have discogenic pain, that's why the brace won't work as well as it only mostly addresses muscular related pain from not being able to hold your spine together. Did the surgery alleviate you of your pain from degenerative discs, what would you say your pain levels are now from a scale of 1-10? But since your entire spine is fused, it must be hard to move about, as you now rely most of your movement from your thighs and hips?
    Leading up to my surgeries, it would be hard to pinpoint and say ďdiscogenicĒ pain when I probably had 25 pain producing problems in my lumbar spine....Degeneration with age can create new problems living with scoliosis. Disc pain or herniationís are a new class of pain, nerve related burning and electrical typeís of pain that can be devastating. Once this happens, the old aches of the younger years almost become insignificant, and things change. Its then becomes critical, and thoughts of surgery come often. Curves donít matter anymore, we just want relief. My 1st experience with these ďalarming eventsĒ was in Jan 2002, age 43. I had a 65 degree lumbar curve with 4 CT verified herniationís in my lumbar. My L5 was smashed down into a triangle shape at that point. That was the ski jumping remodeling program. (smug face) No room for nerves due to this creates pain from other sources. Its beyond bracing at this point.....or any alternative treatment.

    Spinal disc, endplate breakdown, and remodeling disorders are a HUGE flag with scoliosis and kyphosis.

    My spine pain levels are 0-1. I still cant believe it and I tell my surgeon that everything from T2-Pelvis is great. The problem is with everything else. My neck is shot, and my left hand goes numb.....I am so used to pain now, I have mastered ignoring pain.

    No-one can tell Iím fused.

    I support non-surgical methods as tools to buy time..... (From an adult surgical candidates view)

    You hang in there Seeker....

    Below is my 1993 x-ray age 35.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  4. #109
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    Jun 2005
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    you say your spine pain is 0-1 but the problem is of everything else? Do you mean like flexibility and those neck pain and left hand going numb as a result of the surgery?
    I'm under the impression your pain is 0-1 only because you've mastered ignoring it rather than what it actually is. Please clarify
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinseeker View Post
    you say your spine pain is 0-1 but the problem is of everything else? Do you mean like flexibility and those neck pain and left hand going numb as a result of the surgery?
    I'm under the impression your pain is 0-1 only because you've mastered ignoring it rather than what it actually is. Please clarify
    I am fused up to T2. Cervical herniationís C5-6, C6-7 in the neck can produce pain that radiates down the arm and the hand. My arm felt like Mike Tyson punched it, that should give you an idea of the pain levels. Oral steriodís and diclofenac was what the doctor ordered. It worked. My extruded, or protruded disc material retracted, and the pain dissipated. Herniationís can protrude and retract on and off the spinal cord and this affects pain levels. Spinal stenosis or the narrowing of the spinal cord is very painful. It drives many people into surgery.

    My neck was compromised before my scoliosis surgeries, I found this out upon reading through my hospital reports. Lumbar herniationís can cause sciatica, this being hip and leg pain. My hand going numb has little to do, or nothing at all to do with my T2-Pelvis fusion. Its obvious that I have disc problems on just about all my levels. I have no scoliosis in my neck.

    My spine pain in the months right before my surgeries was extremely high. It was so high that I broke my shoulder and arm in a devastating ski crash, skied out, drove home, and never bothered to go to the hospital or see a doctor. After I recovered from my scoliosis surgeries and having my shoulder repaired, this spine pain reduced since I healed, and when that happens all the other pains in the body are felt. The heavy spine pain masks everything. Thatís why I jokingly say its everything else. Benny Hill used to joke about the pains that elders have on his television show many years ago, now I know exactly what he was talking about. From a psychological standpoint, humor helps when your in pain. I avoid negativity and stress since its so damaging. Stress is worse than scoliosis. Stress kills people.

    I have the old bear traps or gripping of the scar tissue in my thoracic spine. This is common in fused scoliís, and takes a lot to get used to. If I grip your wrist with my hand, there is no pain. If I hold it for hours on end, this can be fatiguing. I found its best to simply lay down for awhile if this happens. This takes many years to get used to. Scar tissue can cause problems throughout the body.....another reason to not run into any surgery. Minimally invasive surgeries are great in that you avoid all of this, and you can heal very quickly. I had 2 procedures done in this manner and healed quickly. Too bad all surgeries couldnít be done through portals.The surgeons are the ones who make these decisions.

    I do not have a problem with flexibility. I know many will think that having a 2 x 4 strapped to your whole spine sounds horrible but I have adapted quite well. I bend at the hips and squat to get down to the floor. I have always tried to be positive about my scoliosis before and after my surgeries. Having a positive attitude has always helped me no matter what I was doing. (smiley face) People comment on my perfect posture. I donít have a choice anymore.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  6. #111
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    Jun 2005
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    103
    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    I considered bracing just one of the things that we do..... Like another tool in the tool box..... Like another bottle of aspirin in the medicine cabinet.....and we do run for the aspirin if we have a headache, even if we have not eaten....I didnít have much faith that bracing would correct my thoracic curve. I was hopeful for a slight correction in my lumbar, and that did happen, but bracing programís involve work and pain.....
    May I ask how long you braced?
    You say you got a slight correction in your lumbar, did that correction remain permanent? How long did it take until it reverted back and re progressed when out of the brace?
    After months or years of wearing the brace, did you feel an improvement in overall posture, function and pain when you finally took the brace off, for let's say, a period of a couple of months without bracing? How long did those gains last from using the brace for so long before you started feeling the exact same way you originally did before you used the brace?

    Sad to hear you didn't have much faith on your brace, however mine's a spinecor brace rather than a hard one and would most likely not push as hard unto the body. It's also soft and made of breathable material, I may find it an option to wear for the rest of my life.

    Thanks.
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25
    Jinseeker

    69 y/o with 63 degree thoracic and 48 degree lumbar. 3/4 " leg discrepancy. Active adult weekly tennis and golf.

    I have known about my scoliosis since around 15 years old. I wish I had x-rays taken then so I could compare.

    Aside from the rib hump, which was always mentioned when fitted for a new suit, I haven't been bothered by my condition.

    Started having pain around 60 years old and visited chriros, orthos, etc....probably 20 professionals in all. I decided to research PT and tried various programs including the ones you mentioned.

    Today, roughly 9 years later, I do a daily regimen consisting of what seems to work for me. I change the order so I don't get bored but basically use the same program.

    As I sit in my chair with good posture, I can guarantee you I have changed my body, especially my posture. Is my spine straight, I doubt it. My plan is to get measured again in 2017. I want to give my PT another year. Oh....minimal pain...more like soreness, which I have learned to embrace.

    If you have any interest in knowing what I do send me a email, otherwise, best of luck.
    rkochis65@gmail.com

  8. #113
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    May 2008
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    reno,nevada
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    Jin, I braced 23 hours per day for around 9 months, then started cutting back on the hours. I then used the brace for skiing only.

    The correction was an ďin braceĒ correction in the lumbar only. It was probably about 5 degrees. I donít know how much time it took for the curve to return to its regular shape since you shouldnít shoot too many x-rays. I would imagine it returning quickly. If I had to guess, I would say 48 hours. Its hard to build up muscles on the weak side. It was a Copes brace and he used electrostim to try building up the muscles on the weak side but no matter how high a setting I would use, it just wouldnít work. There is a reason why certain muscles are weak, I have no idea why this happens. Its part of the scoliosis mystery. If your Spinecore helps with pain and is easier to wear than a full ďBattle braceĒ thatís a bonus. Some of the new CAD braces look like a huge improvement to me (from a ergonomics standpoint) I have no idea how well they work, would be nice if someone would do a testimonial...

    I did have pain mainly in my lumbar and yes, while wearing the brace there would be a reduction of pain. This of course at a cost since that hard brace pushed very hard and could hurt in other areas. They are hot and you get sweaty wearing them. It is a full wrap brace, and I still have it! Some day, I will make a planter out of it.....I will probably plant a cactus in it. (smiley face)

    My curves during the early 90ís were running around T60, L60. Since I was a surgical candidate all those years, there were no guarantees in bracing a 32 year old adult. Since this was during the Harrington era, I made the decision to wait as long as I could knowing that the surgical hardware and medical industry was improving. This happens everyday now, things get better. My L5 became a triangle shape, and didnít thrill too many surgeons. It wasnít looking good at all.

    I went as long as I could go without surgery....and made it to age 49.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #114
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    103
    Thanks for comments.
    rkochis: wow, you have a big curve, what made you not choose to have surgery?
    Curious as well what PT have you been doing to be pain free at age 60 with curves being so high.

    Titaniumed: thanks for your input. Although negative, seems like you only had pain relief while inside the brace, not out even if you braced for 9 months prior. I was expecting to get at least a month or two of a better conditioned spine pain free while out of the brace before reverting back to my "pre-braced" state, seems like that is just wishful thinking now.
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25
    When I was diagnosed by a GP in early 60's there was no discussion about solutions. The GP merely stated that the rib hump was caused by scoliosis. I really didn't have any issues until I turned 60. I would say, in retrospect, that the biggest issue was the short left leg (3/4"). In my amateur opinion, this caused the scoliosis. When I had hip replacement 2 years ago (I think due to the misalignment) the ortho added 3/8" to the femur and I wear a lift in the left shoe. Hopefully, you have determined whether or not you have LLD.

    So as I approach 70, I am all about alignment and symmetry. I work very hard at it, but over time it has become part of who I am. The 2 programs that were the main source for my hybrid program are Egoscue and SLM yoga. Egoscue states..." the bones will follow the muscles" (muscles include tendons and ligaments) You can contact me for more details rkochis65@gmail.com

    I wish I had started at your age. I doubt that my curves (and rotation) would be what they are today.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    103
    Thanks for those treatments, I have heard of them before.
    Did yours progress throughout the years?
    31 yr old male with non-progressive Idiopathic scoliosis

    15-37 degrees- upper thoracic ( w/ left shoulder trap higher, head tilted more to the right)
    45-52 degrees- mid thoracic (to the right, w/ rib hump)
    25-30 degrees- lumbosacral curve (to the left w/ lumbar hump, right pelvis is higher than left)

    currently doing schroth exercises and counter postural techniques("side shifting")
    using rib and lumbar support belts. still contemplative about surgery.

    >>My X-ray<<

  12. #117
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    14
    I wore a Boston brace in high school and had X-rays in the brace, immediately after removal of the brace, and several hours later. My lumbar curve measured 6 degrees less in the brace and held that correction for a few hours out of brace. With 4-6 hours it reverted back to the original measurement.

    I realize that a lot has changed with bracing over the last 30 years, but I don't have much faith that a brace will reduce a curve and hold the reduction upon removal.

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25
    I understand why you asked why I did not have surgery and your last question about the curve progression over time. Our situations have some similarities. I have had 2 spinal x-rays in my lifetime. First x-ray on 01-22-2010 showing "right convex lower thoracic curve measuring 62.9 degrees between the upper aspect of T12 in the upper aspect of T4" and "47.6 degree left convex
    upward recurved in the lumbar spine between the upper aspect of T12 and the upper aspect of L5". A followup x-ray on 07/03/2013 showed no significant change either way.

    Therefore, in answer to your last question, I regrettably did not have x-rays at intervals (other than above x-rays) so I cannot provide any information. I look forward to my planned x-rays in 2017 to see if my PT has had any influence on curves.

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,004
    Rkochis, did you never think in Torso Rotation Machine?

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