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  • Originally posted by flerc View Post

    What do you believe? Do you think I'm baiting you?
    I don't think that of course.

    Comment


    • Keep your off topic comments and anger HERE!

      I hope that your dual discussions on THIS THREAD can provide an outlet or therapy for both of you so that you can confine your bantering [B]just here.[B].


      Your comments very distracting on other threads where members of the forum are trying to get advice/support/compassion from other members on their problems or questions about scoliosis.

      I hope that prospective members do not pull up this thread and are frightened off the forum for fear that they might incur the wrath of your negativism and criticism.

      Susan
      Adult Onset Degen Scoliosis @65, 25* T & 36* L w/ 11.2 cm coronal balance; T kyphosis 90*; Sev disc degen T & L stenosis

      2013: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
      2014: Hernia @ ALIF repaired; Emergency screw removal SCI T4,5 sec to PJK
      2015: Rev Broken Bil T & L rods and no fusion: 2 revision surgeries; hardware P. Acnes infection
      2016: Ant/Lat Lumbar diskectomy w/ 4 cages + BMP + harvested bone
      2018: Removal L4,5 screw
      2021: Removal T1 screw & rod

      Comment


      • Originally posted by susancook View Post
        I hope that your dual discussions on THIS THREAD can provide an outlet or therapy for both of you so that you can confine your bantering [B]just here.[B].


        Your comments very distracting on other threads where members of the forum are trying to get advice/support/compassion from other members on their problems or questions about scoliosis.

        I hope that prospective members do not pull up this thread and are frightened off the forum for fear that they might incur the wrath of your negativism and criticism.
        I agree I need therapy, but because is no normal to remain so many years here. In your case is absolutely different of course. You also think that only surgery really works, so nobody never attacks you. You are free to comment what you want in threads of your interest without nobody hijacking it.
        And I also want this problem would be encapsulated in this thread. I hope the discussion about evidence or not evidence, science or folk science, and so on will never be repeated in other thread!
        Last edited by flerc; 02-14-2014, 06:06 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by flerc View Post
          I agree I need therapy, but because is no normal to remain so many years here. In your case is absolutely different of course. You also think that only surgery really works, so nobody never attacks you. You are free to comment what you want in threads of your interest without nobody hijacking it.
          And I also want this problem would be encapsulated in this thread. I hope the discussion about evidence or not evidence, science or folk science, and so on will never be repeated in other thread!
          Re: your comment: " I agree that I need therapy, but because is no normal to remain so many years".
          I do not understand what you mean in the second part of your sentence.

          Re: your comment: "In your case is absolutely different of course. You also think that only surgery really works, so nobody ever attacks you."
          How do you know what I think? You cannot tell me what i think. Have you even asked me? In fact, I do not believe that only surgery works.
          Others on the forum have questioned some of the things that I have said, if you call that "attacked".

          Re: your comment: "And I also want this problem would be encapsulated in this thread".
          I do not understand what you mean.

          Re: your comment: "I hope the discussion about evidence or not evidence, science or folk science, and so on will never be repeated in other thread!"
          I doubt it.

          Susan, honestly trying to understand your posting, but need help here.......

          PS: Maybe I am reading into this, but I think that you are saying that my comments indicate that I have a personal problem with you. I don't know anything about you, your history, nor have we ever exchanged PMs. It is not you that I find difficulty with, it is your behavior.

          PS2: Will someone who knows how to post someone else's comment in a bubble and then respond with your comment, and then go on to the other Person's comment in the bubble, and then post your own comment, pls send me a PM and tell me how you do it. I had to delete the previous attempt to post this. Thanks.
          Last edited by susancook; 02-16-2014, 04:26 PM. Reason: Editing will hopefully increase clarity!
          Adult Onset Degen Scoliosis @65, 25* T & 36* L w/ 11.2 cm coronal balance; T kyphosis 90*; Sev disc degen T & L stenosis

          2013: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
          2014: Hernia @ ALIF repaired; Emergency screw removal SCI T4,5 sec to PJK
          2015: Rev Broken Bil T & L rods and no fusion: 2 revision surgeries; hardware P. Acnes infection
          2016: Ant/Lat Lumbar diskectomy w/ 4 cages + BMP + harvested bone
          2018: Removal L4,5 screw
          2021: Removal T1 screw & rod

          Comment


          • Originally posted by flerc
            "I hope the discussion about evidence or not evidence, science or folk science, and so on will never be repeated in other thread!"
            Originally posted by susancook
            I doubt it.
            LOL. I doubt it also. That would be a free-for-all for every charlatan out there.

            The only reason to limit demands for evidence is when people know they don't have it and resent being asked. That's not a legitimate reason to stop asking for evidence. If someone resents being asked for evidence of efficacy then they shouldn't be posting on a forum about a serious medical issue.

            Science is the only game in town. Flerc doesn't like that.
            Last edited by Pooka1; 02-16-2014, 09:17 AM.
            Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

            No island of sanity.

            Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
            Answer: Medicine


            "We are all African."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by susancook View Post
              Re: your comment: " I agree that I need therapy, but because is no normal to remain so many years".
              I do not understand what you mean in the second part of your sentence.
              If you see my posts, you could see how almost always I finish inevitably with a large discussion with Pooka1. If I spend my time here, I should to obtain some benefit as everyone posting here and which could be my benefit discussing with her? Is not sane of course.


              Originally posted by susancook View Post
              Re: your comment: "In your case is absolutely different of course. You also think that only surgery really works, so nobody ever attacks you."
              How do you know what I think? You cannot tell me what i think. Have you even asked me? In fact, I do not believe that only surgery works.
              If I agrree in something with her is in the definition about 'works'. If cannot avoid a surgery then don't work. I was sure you (as Pooka1 always says) think that non surgical methods don't work in that sense and if I was wrong take my apologies. In fact it would not be a problem for me; as I said in different posts I had really many friendly chats with people in other forums thinking that, why not? You may be sure this is the only forum in the world were people thinking different is attacked and not allowed to obtain some benefit spending their time here and being threatened where trying to change that unfair situation.

              Originally posted by susancook View Post
              Others on the forum have questioned some of the things that I have said, if you call that "attacked".
              People saying to be attacked was before my first post here. Insults as 'ignorant', 'desperate', quack, charlatan.. and every kind of verbal agression that someone may imagine is an attack of course. She call it 'driving people away'. Of course doing impossible to talk in these sections is also an attack. Probably you have never read Pooka1's thread doing her work here. It would be possible if you don't use to visits non surgical sections.

              Originally posted by susancook View Post
              Re: your comment: "And I also want this problem would be encapsulated in this thread".
              I do not understand what you mean.
              To encapsulate is to confine something into a limited space, as it could be this thread.

              I said her many (really many) times before that if she would not be dishonest she would only say all what she says when she does her work in ONLY one thread. I challenged her to accept that kind of debate in an exclusive thread thinking that if finally it results clear the non sense (I'm not attacking, is a fact!) of all what she ever says as of course shoul happens, she would never repeat it never more in other threads.
              But look what she is doing again. She refuse to debate. She only attacks me saying me 'charlatan' and so on, because she knows the POWER here is in her favour and against me. She may attacks me, insults me, but I not. Do you think it is fair?. Say me please.
              And certainly, why to accept a debat in only one thread? It would be clearly against her work here of course!

              Originally posted by susancook View Post
              Re: your comment: "I hope the discussion about evidence or not evidence, science or folk science, and so on will never be repeated in other thread!"
              I doubt it.
              I don't. Certainly this forum is now a surgical forum. See the Activity Stream. All surgical posts! This of course has nothing to do with a non surgical thread. People thinking in non surgical options was 'fired' (they was enough sane), I may say I'm the last and probably this would be my last post. What do you think someone new seeing this could think? Wow! in the most visited scoliosis forum of the world, they only talk about surgery! Why she will need to continue with her work? It's done.
              Last edited by flerc; 02-16-2014, 09:52 AM.

              Comment



              • i have not had surgery...no one limits my posts or shuts me
                down...
                i have not solved my scoliosis problem as i think there is no
                solving it...i just put band aids on it as it were...
                now it is having an impact on my hips...
                being unevenly "loaded" puts differing stress on my hips
                and they are becoming inflamed, developing bursitis, etc...

                i have no problem being heard, even though i have not had
                surgery...yet...despite almost every surgeon telling me to...
                but i have not accepted it for personal reasons...
                i think it is the only "successful" treatment for scoliosis right now...
                so therefore, i continue to suffer the effects of scoli that has not
                yet been corrected with surgery....
                i get shots sometimes, but overdosed on steroids to the point
                of my cortisol crashing...so i had to stop having shots in my spine..
                the sacroiliac joint shots provided alot of relief...i miss them.

                no one has limited me in any way that i know of on forum...
                then again, i am not here to insult anyone or throw slings or
                arrows at anyone...
                or to fight with anyone...
                so that is my statement...i will not engage in any fighting...

                jess...and Sparky

                Comment


                • Originally posted by flerc View Post
                  If I agree in something with her is in the definition about 'works'. If cannot avoid a surgery then don't work.
                  Yes when it comes to kids. The end game of bracing and PT is avoiding surgery for life. No rational kid would try it if that wasn't the goal. Look at the BrAIST paper. It is all stated in terms of avoiding surgery (at point of maturity with a curve <50* with up to 25% growth remaining). Now rational people can possibly disagree that avoiding surgery should be the endpoint for kids but that doesn't change the fact that the kids and the researchers are focused on this issue.

                  Certainly this forum is now a surgical forum. See the Activity Stream. All surgical posts! People thinking in non surgical options was 'fired' (they was enough sane), I may say I'm the last and probably this would be my last post. What do you think someone new seeing this could think? Wow! in the most visited scoliosis forum of the world, they only talk about surgery! Why she will need to continue with her work? It's done.
                  I am doing my part to help make this an evidence-based forum. Because most of the evidence of efficacy is for surgical treatments, you interpret that as being pro-surgery. You can't seem to tease these issues apart so you are continually confused in your posts. I don't make the news... I just report it. You mistakenly think I make the news. This isn't my field. That said, I can read papers and I was claiming the bracing literature was a train wreck for years. Researchers in the field agreed with me. Did you know it was a train wreck? If not then maybe you are not able to follow along and should reel your comments in much more.
                  Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                  No island of sanity.

                  Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                  Answer: Medicine


                  "We are all African."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by flerc View Post
                    Certainly is you who fulfill what you say and you never will be driven away, because the reasons I gave in the last of what I said.
                    I am always open to evidence. Evidence is king. I change my mind when confronted with evidence.

                    You can start posting evidence any time now. I continue to wait. I will criticize counterfactual posts from you until then. No need to keep rehashing the dynamics of the exchanges here.
                    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                    No island of sanity.

                    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                    Answer: Medicine


                    "We are all African."

                    Comment


                    • This ‘discussion’ could have sense for you but not for me. We had had it a lot of times before and certainly you had it not only with me. Finally you not reply any more when is definitely obvious you cannot do it or the thread/post is deleted/shut down. Certainly it happened in this thread until Susancook posted.
                      But after a time you begin again saying exactly the same that I or other have proved to had not any sense.

                      Not only my wife say me how much insane I am, wastig my time in this not productve and absurd way. People around the world seeing this forums may me jokes, or say me they also wants to say here the same I’m saying, but I should to know how much useless is try to change what happens here. And certainly I used to say this forum cannot be changed from inside, so it has not any sense of course what I'm doing.

                      I was entering as a perfect idiot since time ago into your white/black game. You did the same to many other people leaving the forum and certainly it works only because the power is with you. Not the force of course, the power, just only the power, but the power always win.
                      Do you know the white/blak dog joke?

                      A man had a white and a black dogs, but he only talked about the white, never about the black. One day a man asked him why he did it. '

                      ‘Well, do you know? The white dog is extremely powerful, he may kill a wild boar in few minutes'
                      Ok, I'm understand, only the white can do it
                      'No, of course the black may also do it'
                      But why then you only talk about the white if the black can also do it?
                      'because the white is very smart!'
                      Ok.. the black is stupid?
                      'Not of course, he also is very smart'
                      But why then you only talk about the white if the black is also smart?
                      'because the white..'
                      ..
                      and so on..
                      ..
                      Do you believe I'm stupid?, why the hell do you only talk about the white if the black does exactly the same?
                      ‘Well, do you know? Because the white dog is extremely powerful, he may kill a wild boar in few minutes'

                      This man of course would be a perfect idiot if he would begin again asking ‘why do you only talk.....?’ Don't you believe?
                      In the same way I would be a perfect idiot if I begin again to show the lack of sense in saying for instance what you say about the lack of evidence as I did again in these days in a deleted thread. Again you will jump to something different as saying that I'm doing folk science, when I show the lack of sense in saying that, you may jump to braces saying waht you use to say, when again I show the lack of sense in saying this, then you may attack me, insulting me as you recently did. Then after my reply the thread may be deleted/shut down or you may simply not reply in this thread and tomorrow or next week, again you will begin again to say what you are saying about evidence..

                      I have not time to this absurd game. I may show to be something insane (who may be absolutely sane in this kind of world?) but to show to be definetely stupid is of course something very different.
                      Instead of continues playing this game I could demonstrate you just one more time again the lack of sense (is a fact) of all what you say in your confusing style, if I could have guarantees it would not be deleted again what I say and if it would be a way of having a serious debate here and after it, you will never repeat nothing about evidence, folk science, ignorant people, charlatans, useless teen braces.. in other thread hijacking it or attacking people as you ever does. If you would be really honest and you would really believe what you say and really you would want to help people showing facts, you should to simply quote what you said in the ‘debate thread’ and leave people to take their own conclusions and not saying to the world that only surgery works, repeating and repeating hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands the same in every non surgical thread doing impossible for everyone to obtain what should to be obtained from this forum and having instead to shows you how much wrong is all what you say again and again..

                      But how many times I said it before? Why I suppose this large post will not be deleted? Of course you'll ignore everything I'm saying and continue doing the same you always do.
                      It seems I continue playing the cyclic white/black dog game. Not any more.
                      Your immoral work is done, but as I said you, the 'merit' belongs to the power not to you.
                      Last edited by flerc; 02-17-2014, 07:30 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Hello Flerc, just wanted you to know that I read your lengthy reply to my entry.

                        I agree with you that it is never appropriate for anyone to stoop to the level of name calling.

                        I do know the definition of "encapsulate", I just do not understand the meaning and your context. I still do not understand what you mean after you explained it.

                        I am having difficulty understanding many of your statements.

                        You said that this is a "surgical forum". I do not agree with you. I started or added to numerous threads about non-surgical treatments, specifically denervations, corticosteroid injections, chiropractic treatment, TENS units, massage, use of heat/cold, exercise, analgesic and muscle relaxant medications, and probably others that I cannot think of off the top of my head. Some of the information may be embedded in surgical threads, but I know for sure that I have as have others posted and responded about non-surgical approaches. There is a huge section on bracing that I have only responded in for post-surgical treatment, but others have commented on at length. It is probably true that many people access the forum because they are considering surgery. Many people, in addition to myself have commented that surgery is the LAST choice that someone with scoliosis should consider. Non-surgical treatments/modalities should be considered.

                        Flerc, I apologize if this is taken as a negative comment as it certainly is not intended as such, but is English your second language?

                        Re: your concern about your statements being deleted. In one thread that I know of, the entire thread was deleted (and it did contain many of your comments as well as some of mine) because the thread was about a physical problem that a member was having for which she was requesting suggestions for treatment or support from others who may have had the same physical post-surgical problem. The thread turned into an EXTENSIVE discussion about a topic that was not related to the original physical problem in the thread. Thus, she deleted the entire thread.

                        I will check the forum for your response to this entry, but I think that I have adequately said everything, or more correctly, more than everything that I want to say and will exit this thread with this entry.

                        Goodbye,

                        Susan
                        Last edited by susancook; 02-16-2014, 05:11 PM. Reason: Increased Clarity may enhance understanding of my babbling......
                        Adult Onset Degen Scoliosis @65, 25* T & 36* L w/ 11.2 cm coronal balance; T kyphosis 90*; Sev disc degen T & L stenosis

                        2013: T3- S1 Fusion w/ ALIF L4-S1/XLIF L2-4, PSF T4-S1 2 surgeries
                        2014: Hernia @ ALIF repaired; Emergency screw removal SCI T4,5 sec to PJK
                        2015: Rev Broken Bil T & L rods and no fusion: 2 revision surgeries; hardware P. Acnes infection
                        2016: Ant/Lat Lumbar diskectomy w/ 4 cages + BMP + harvested bone
                        2018: Removal L4,5 screw
                        2021: Removal T1 screw & rod

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by susancook View Post
                          You said that this is a "surgical forum". I do not agree with you. I started or added to numerous threads about non-surgical treatments, specifically denervations, corticosteroid injections, chiropractic treatment, TENS units, massage, use of heat/cold, exercise, analgesic and muscle relaxant medications, and probably others that I cannot think of off the top of my head. Some of the information may be embedded in surgical threads, but I know for sure that I have as have others posted and responded about non-surgical approaches. There is a huge section on bracing that I have only responded in for post-surgical treatment, but others have commented on at length. It is probably true that many people access the forum because they are considering surgery. Many people, in addition to myself have commented that surgery is the LAST choice that someone with scoliosis should consider. Non-surgical treatments/modalities should be considered.
                          I think he means conservative treatments in growing kids and adults to avoid fusion due to progression but he can correct me if I'm wrong. Clearly conservative treatments are effective against pain in kids and adults. The lack of evidence has to due with stopping progression and avoiding surgery, not with the pain issue. Or at least that is what I bang on about in terms of asking for evidence and so that is what is is complaining about.

                          Flerc, I apologize if this is taken as a negative comment as it certainly is not intended as such, but is English your second language?
                          Flerc is from South America. Argentina if I recall correctly. His English is pretty good given that. I get 95% or better of what he is saying.
                          Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                          No island of sanity.

                          Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                          Answer: Medicine


                          "We are all African."

                          Comment


                          • I agree with Flerc that it is unfortunate that those who push surgery refuse to let others post without being attacked. I have pooka on an ignore status. Without that I would not be able to come to this site at all. Early in this thread someone used the word "intelligensia". Truly intelligent people do not relentlessly, and with cruelty, force their ideas on others. The relentless attacks make it nearly impossible for readers of this site to HOPE that some day there will be approaches to scoliosis that do not rely on surgery or to seek relief from pain through exercise and other therapies. I think Schadenfreude must be at play considering how frequently the surgical supporters are cruel.

                            My daughter has used exercise almost exclusively and it took time and effort but her pain diminished. If I had listened to Linda and pooka, and not the others who are exploring for progress in this field, my daughter would still be waking up in the middle of the night, every night, crying in pain.

                            In reference to the earlier back and forth about doctor Boachie. I took my daughter to him for a consultation. He was of absolutely NO HELP at all. I was very surprised at what a waste of time and money that visit turned out to be. I've read that his surgical skills have helped many people but I would not recommend him. The worst thing about where the money goes in the scoliosis field is that almost all of it goes to surgeons.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by aterry View Post
                              I agree with Flerc that it is unfortunate that those who push surgery refuse to let others post without being attacked. I have pooka on an ignore status. Without that I would not be able to come to this site at all. Early in this thread someone used the word "intelligensia". Truly intelligent people do not relentlessly, and with cruelty, force their ideas on others. The relentless attacks make it nearly impossible for readers of this site to HOPE that some day there will be approaches to scoliosis that do not rely on surgery or to seek relief from pain through exercise and other therapies. I think Schadenfreude must be at play considering how frequently the surgical supporters are cruel.
                              Yes Aterry, is something really unfair.. as it was said before for others, imagine what could happen if we would be doing in surgical sections what she does here. We may repeat and repeat thousands of times that surgery don't works because there is no evidence that people having it are free of complications for all the life. If we would be enough bad persons to doing that, looking for discourage people trusting in surgery, as she tries to discourage to us, sure we would be banned.

                              But she not only can discourage people saying something similar every time, she also is free to justify what she does saying 'there is no evidence non surgical methods works'. This argument used thousands of times for her here, is inadmissible as I showed in other threads, the last was deleted.
                              So the problem here is not she really, is the lack of a moderator not allowing this unfair and insane situation. Why she don’t forces Pooka1 to not discredit any more non surgical options using absurd arguments?
                              Why this forum has a moderator doing this? Allowing someone as Pooka1 defaming non surgical options for ever? Why? If it would have some sense what she says.. ok, nobody should to talk in favour of non surgical treatments and this should to be a 'Surgical Forum' as now it really is.

                              But why she allows her to repeat and repeat until the end of the ages a non sense argument any time someone wants to talk about non surgery methods, doing absolutely impossible to continue talking about the issue of the thread?
                              Of course Pooka1 will never accept by her own to have a serious discussion defending her argument, she should to be forced to accept it and if she fails to prove it’s not inadmissible as we know it is, then it should to be forbidden for her to repeat it any more, defaming every time what she don’t knows.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by flerc View Post
                                Yes Aterry, is something really unfair..
                                That's also what the flat-earthers, alchemists, creationists and Holocaust deniers say.

                                So the problem here is not she really, is the lack of a moderator not allowing this unfair and insane situation. Why she don’t forces Pooka1 to not discredit any more non surgical options using absurd arguments?
                                Why this forum has a moderator doing this? Allowing someone as Pooka1 defaming non surgical options for ever? Why? If it would have some sense what she says.. ok, nobody should to talk in favour of non surgical treatments and this should to be a 'Surgical Forum' as now it really is.
                                The problem is lack of even basic science training among lay people because it has been undermined continuously and that the BBB does not have the time or probably the patience to patrol medical fora. They would have a field day.

                                But why she allows her to repeat and repeat until the end of the ages a non sense argument any time someone wants to talk about non surgery methods, doing absolutely impossible to continue talking about the issue of the thread?
                                Of course Pooka1 will never accept by her own to have a serious discussion defending her argument, she should to be forced to accept it and if she fails to prove it’s not inadmissible as we know it is, then it should to be forbidden for her to repeat it any more, defaming every time what she don’t knows.
                                Control what your read, not what others write. Have a sense of self that is not defined by what others think. Read up on how science works and why it is the only game in town.
                                Last edited by Pooka1; 02-20-2014, 06:50 AM.
                                Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                                No island of sanity.

                                Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                                Answer: Medicine


                                "We are all African."

                                Comment

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