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Thread: "Driving people away" - who, why, and does it matter?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I agree that was important to point out I was wrong about that..
    I was not and am not now faulting you for reaching an incorrect conclusion. Everyone does that all the time. I am faulting you for:

    * treating that incorrect conclusion, based on conjecture, as absolute fact
    and, more importantly to me in that discussion
    * repeatedly, incessantly, doggedly calling me every manner of names for holding on to my (later proven to be correct) conclusion.

    It was the repeated, incessant, dogged name calling for which I was asking for an apology. I found it beyond the pale, even if you had been absolutely correct. But, to hold onto the idea that it was totally OK to call me ever manner of names, even when you were insulting me because *You* reached the incorrect conclusion? Yes, I'd think one might want to apologize for that. Again, I don't expect it - I am (generally) just kind of laughing this stuff off.

    But, again, you're exacerbating it here with "we can't all ALWAYS be correct like you" "I am not clairvoyant like you." It's all just really really unpleasant when, again, I was correct AND I'm not trying to further incite. All other things being equal, you'd think it would be *me* making snippy remarks about you, given the incident. But, again, apparently, all other things are not equal.

    So, yes, I engage. but I do wish that it weren't so ridiculously unpleasant simply to place facts into evidence.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Nobody can argue with before and after radiographs read by competent people (radiologist and surgeons).
    So the purpose of your work is that only people having such kind of rx and disposed to shows it in this forum would be the only ones who may participate in the non surgical sections here. Someone asked you to do this?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    So the purpose of your work is that only people having such kind of rx and disposed to shows it in this forum would be the only ones who may participate in the non surgical sections here. Someone asked you to do this?
    No. Only the people who claim they reduced their curves using PT. You wouldn't just accept the claim your wife was cheating on you without evidence but you seem to accept this claims without evidence. Why?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I was not and am not now faulting you for reaching an incorrect conclusion. Everyone does that all the time. I am faulting you for:

    * treating that incorrect conclusion, based on conjecture, as absolute fact
    and, more importantly to me in that discussion
    * repeatedly, incessantly, doggedly calling me every manner of names for holding on to my (later proven to be correct) conclusion.

    It was the repeated, incessant, dogged name calling for which I was asking for an apology. I found it beyond the pale, even if you had been absolutely correct. But, to hold onto the idea that it was totally OK to call me ever manner of names, even when you were insulting me because *You* reached the incorrect conclusion? Yes, I'd think one might want to apologize for that. Again, I don't expect it - I am (generally) just kind of laughing this stuff off.

    But, again, you're exacerbating it here with "we can't all ALWAYS be correct like you" "I am not clairvoyant like you." It's all just really really unpleasant when, again, I was correct AND I'm not trying to further incite. All other things being equal, you'd think it would be *me* making snippy remarks about you, given the incident. But, again, apparently, all other things are not equal.

    So, yes, I engage. but I do wish that it weren't so ridiculously unpleasant simply to place facts into evidence.
    Ask yourself why it took you so long to compare and contrast my remarks and Dr. McIntire's.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Someone asked you to do this?
    If it would be the case I really might understand why you spend so many time in non surgical sections. Hdugger, me and others are here because a health problem and we are evaluating non surgical options.. we are not here to 'show' people that dont works as you try to do. We have an important problem to solve. It's not your reason to be in these sections of course doing what you are doing.. I'm wrong?
    Last edited by flerc; 01-09-2014 at 01:08 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Ask yourself why it took you so long to compare and contrast my remarks and Dr. McIntire's.
    So, again, dodge the issue at hand (should one apologize for insulting someone for reaching a correct conclusion) and revisit some other dispute altogether.

    I thought I'd made this clear before, but perhaps not. I am trying not to drag said Dr. into these disputes because: 1) he is named and 2) he has a professional ethical code. So, no, I am not now nor in the future going to be dragging out the "ad hominem" chart and placing said Dr's remarks on them. If *you* want to do so, I can't stop you, but I have no interest in dragging a known, professional person into a dispute on a public forum.

    I made clear where and why I placed you on that chart. If you want to discuss your own behavior ad naseum, feel free to. I'm out.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    As someone who is regularly engaging recently, my choice is between letting unsupported and conjectural statements stand - statements which misrepresent the efficacy or expected course or other aspect of a treatment which participants on this forum are considering - or stepping in to correct them with evidence.

    I realize that I am electively posting, but I feel that it's important to make clear, for example, that the BrAIST study doesn't apply to nighttime braces. That will matter to someone considering nighttime bracing. Now they don't believe (wrongly) that their child is just bound to fail and go on to surgery. And I also understand that, in choosing to engage *just with those facts* I am going to fall into a torrent of insult. Like Maria, I am making that choice because I believe I'm doing something that needs to be done.

    So, I am not *choosing* to engage in a personal dispute. And, with some notable and fire-y exceptions, I try to not make it personal. But my choice is: engage with the facts and be insulted, or let misstatements stand. I am choosing the former. But it's like throwing myself into a thorn thicket just to get the actual facts on the table.

    BTW, one cannot slander an anonymous person, to the best of my knowledge. The idea of slander/libel is that you're causing damage to a known entity. Dr. Mooney can be slandered/libeled. "A poster calling themselves Pooka" cannot.
    I meant engaging in the bickering, which I feel that you show more self-restraint than others here. Your reason for continuing on here is just as legitimate as many of us and your contributions are valuable. I don't "side" with people. I like to read contributions.

    When different personalities mix there ARE going to be disputes. It's how we handle those disputes that matters.

    As far as slander, Pooka1 has revealed enough about herself on this forum that she could probably be identified easily enough. So in that case, yes, it is slander to make false statements that can destroy the reputation of another. That's why we have to be careful how much personal information we throw out there.

    I think her reason for being here is just as noble as any of us. She's lived the nightmare of scoliosis in her children and is honestly concerned about disseminating information to help other parents who are going through the same thing, not to do an evil work as she is being accused of. You are in the exact same position. I do it for myself and my grandchild who shows signs of early onset scoliosis, although not by definition "scoliosis" even though there is a curve there. I have future grandchildren that I'd like to be a good resource for. My son had self-resolving JIS and his wife had such a significant curve that she was advised fusion surgery at 16 years of age. Her cobb angle wasn't that horrible at 48*, but she was corkscrewing something fierce. So those are MY reasons for being here. Flerc is here because he's gone through the same nightmare with his daughter. This is devastating news to any parent and/or individual that suffers from scoliosis. We need to remember our common ground.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    So, again, dodge the issue at hand
    You were wondering why I deal with you the way I do. I am telling you why. Stop asking me. You have the answer.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    I think her reason for being here is just as noble as any of us. She's lived the nightmare of scoliosis in her children and is honestly concerned about disseminating information to help other parents who are going through the same thing, not to do an evil work as she is being accused of.
    Part I

    Is absolutely impossible for me to understand how someone knowing enoug about Pooka1's work here may really believes what you are saying.

    Many people around the world had not good outcomes with braces or other non surgical options and they are not dedicating their lives to convince the world that only surgery works!
    Last edited by flerc; 01-09-2014 at 01:57 PM.

  10. #100
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    Also many other people around the world had not good outcomes with surgery and they are not dedicating their lives to convince the world that before surgery they should to prove with other option!
    Do you believe she needs thousands of posts to talk about her bad experience? Of course not! I cannot believe you don't see how much impossible is to talk about non surgical options here! Do you believe Roher01 I have time to this kind of discussion?

  11. #101
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    Part II

    I don't need to do a Google search to find an example of what I'm saying. YESTERDAY I saw someone talking about Spinecor for adults. I may talk about it through several weeks without stopping! I need to do it and although to talk in English is very much uncomfortable for me I would have do it. But Pooka1 didn't allow me to do that. How may I don't hate her? How someone may be so bad person or insane to do that? I really don't know.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    You were wondering why I deal with you the way I do. .
    No, I'm not asking why. Motivations don't matter to me, except in the closest of relationships.

    I am asking you to stop, whatever your motivation might be. I am particularly asking you to stop violently and abusively defending *conjectures* as if they were some holy fact. Let people discover the best information currently available and stop leading them, by conjecture, insinuation, and insult, into believing things which are demonstrably not true - night bracing has not been show to lead with certainty to fusion, curves do not suddenly progress after bracing because of atrophied muscles, torso rotation does not need to be discounted because *you* believe (completely contrary to the written record) that someone double published, Boachie has not stated that fusion for thoracic fusions is "one stop shopping". And so on and so on.

    It's not about your feelings about *me* or some blood grudge you've decided to act on, for heavens sake. It's about trying to stick, as closely, as possible to what is true and known, because it's in the best interest of everyone in the forum.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I am asking you to stop, whatever your motivation might be. I am particularly asking you to stop violently and abusively defending *conjectures* as if they were some holy fact. Let people discover the best information currently available and stop leading them, by conjecture, insinuation, and insult, into believing things which are demonstrably not true - night bracing has not been show to lead with certainty to fusion, curves do not suddenly progress after bracing because of atrophied muscles, torso rotation does not need to be discounted because *you* believe (completely contrary to the written record) that someone double published, Boachie has not stated that fusion for thoracic fusions is "one stop shopping". And so on and so on.
    Dishonest recitation of my positions. More of the same behavior.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Part II

    I don't need to do a Google search to find an example of what I'm saying. YESTERDAY I saw someone talking about Spinecor for adults. I may talk about it through several weeks without stopping! I need to do it and although to talk in English is very much uncomfortable for me I would have do it. But Pooka1 didn't allow me to do that. How may I don't hate her? How someone may be so bad person or insane to do that? I really don't know.
    I haven't looked at that Spinecor thread today. I did read it yesterday and didn't see any bickering or unfriendliness going on. Maybe it happened after I looked? I honestly don't follow those threads for too long because they don't apply to me. I can't use a Spinecor because of where my curve is. IF I could, I might have tried one for pain myself. I'm not taking sides here. I just wish everyone would be friendly. I've stated that until I'm blue in the face. I don't have anything personal against anyone here. That's all I can contribute. I just miss your old threads and comments, Flerc. These new ones aimed at arguing are exhausting to say the least.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Boachie has not stated that fusion for thoracic fusions is "one stop shopping".
    Here's an example of how you dissemble. I have posted that link to Boachie's quote for years. Ti Ed found the link first as far as I can remember and I reposted it several times, any time a person claims not fusions are one-stop. You find the PP and think you discovered it like lost treasure and take credit for "uncovering the truth!" You NEVER acknowledged that I have posted that link several times.

    The reason you didn't acknowledge my multiple postings of that link and that quote is because that would completely undermine you effort to show I am quote mining. Quote mining is dishonest. I don't do it. You are doing it to me in these posts.

    The problem is you have decided a priori to disagree with every statement I make and will do whatever is necessary to support that disagreement in your head.

    Yes I believe you that you think I am making counterfactual statements. But that is motivated entirely by your crusade to disagree with every one of my statements.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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