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Thread: Gene Associated With Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis Identified

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I never understood why some people turn angry when people think different
    Do you get mad when people lie about you?

    Do you get mad when they assume wrong things?

    Medicine and biochemistry are obviously more complex than physics. It's been decades since we landed a man on the moon and safely returned him to earth. Yet the researchers, the only people with any relevant training, right now are working on multiple, mutually exclusive etiologies for idiopathic scoliosis. They can't rule some things out and there is no guarantee they are working on the right thing. Maybe there is more than one right thing.

    And yet some lay people think they will solve it with NO training and just 5 minutes on google. The research section is breath-taking.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 05-16-2013 at 06:33 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    All my life I have ‘discussed’ about rational issues with people thinking sometimes in a similar way and sometimes not.
    Lay people can't discuss idiopathic scoliosis rationally because they have no relevant training. It is by definition irrational. And it shows.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #48
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    Dingo,

    We really like what you are doing. I try to remember that before there were universities, everyone was a lay person. Before great breakthroughs there were many failures, but the ideas and the "efforts" kept coming forth which is why there's been so much advancement in medicine and the sciences. Everything starts with an idea. It is innate that people want to make life better for themselves and their loved ones - this is the engine that drives invention and discovery. Leonardo Da Vinci was a lay person, self-taught. Yeah, it was the 15th century, but much of his work has influenced our lives. This is one of my favorite "lays":

    Elizabeth Kenny
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Elizabeth Kenny (1950)
    Elizabeth Kenny (20 September 1880*– 30 November 1952) was an unaccredited Australian nurse who promoted a controversial new approach to the treatment of poliomyelitis in the era before mass vaccination eradicated the disease in most countries. Her findings ran counter to conventional medical wisdom; they demonstrated the need to exercise muscles affected by polio instead of immobilizing them. Kenny's principles of muscle rehabilitation became the foundation of physical therapy, or physiotherapy.
    "The most deadly action you can take is to internalize someone else's negativity, for once you start to believe it, you’re sunk."

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victine View Post
    Elizabeth Kenny (1950)
    Elizabeth Kenny (20 September 1880*– 30 November 1952) was an unaccredited Australian nurse who promoted a controversial new approach to the treatment of poliomyelitis in the era before mass vaccination eradicated the disease in most countries. Her findings ran counter to conventional medical wisdom; they demonstrated the need to exercise muscles affected by polio instead of immobilizing them. Kenny's principles of muscle rehabilitation became the foundation of physical therapy, or physiotherapy.
    Victine you are too kind. It makes me happy to know that somebody might like my posts. I hope the torso rotation posts help somebody. 8-)

    Elizabeth Kenny is a hero! One concept that seems to work over and over again is "do what the body was designed for." The body was meant to be physically active and sure enough Elizabeth Kenny proved that it helped kids recover from Polio. Not long ago the medical establishment told people to lay in bed for weeks after surgery or illness to help them recover. WRONG! Our ancestors didn't lay around for weeks after after an injury and neither should we.

    Didn't doctors used to knock out women so they could have babies? 99% of the time that was pure craziness. 8-)
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-16-2013 at 08:47 AM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Is that similar to the storyline you have for scoliosis?
    Yes. I've read about this sort of thing for thousands of hours since Scott's diagnosis 4 years ago. Nearly all disease appears to follow that common pattern.

    Genetic susceptibility + environmental damage = disease.

    In addition once a disease takes hold genes can make symptoms less severe or more severe.

    If a disease is rare, group specific or hits primarily old people it's possible that it's caused by heredity.

    If a disease is ancient, common and widespread (especially if it hits young people) it's almost impossible for it to be caused by heredity because natural selection is the mortal enemy of disease.

  6. #51
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    Even simpler still...

    The purpose of our DNA is to facilitate reproduction. A chicken is an egg's way of making another egg.

    If something interferes with reproduction it almost always comes from the environment, not heredity.

    Would Scoliosis reduce the rate of reproduction or interfere with child rearing even if only slightly? Yes. Therefor I can bet with 99% accuracy that it's triggered by something in the environment.

    The world is exactly that simple.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-16-2013 at 09:38 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Based on my very rough reading of the Scoliscore research, it sounds like that's what they were seeing. The genetic configuration they saw didn't predict who would get scoliosis at all - there's apparently lots of folks out there with the "almost certain progression to 50 degrees" genetic profile who have absolutely straight spines. So, the profile doesn't cause the spine to start curving. But, once it starts to curve, then the genetics suggest that it will continue to curve (and/or that it will be resistant to bracing in some way)
    Yup. Scoliscore suggests disease severity but it doesn't suggest who gets the disease.

    Scientists could probably make a "Scoliscore" test for many different diseases. I think these tests exist for many types of cancer.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I haven't read the family studies closely enough to know this. Do the family studies show that having scoliosis *at all* tends to run in families, or just that having the scoliosis which tends to progress runs in families?
    I would assume that curves that are more severe or start at an earlier age tend to run in families because those indicate the possibility of greater genetic susceptibility.

    As for the twin studies they aren't definitive but they indicate that Scoliosis is less genetic than previously assumed. Scientists do them to get a general idea of what they should be looking for.

    The low concordance found in both large studies ended the idea that Scoliosis was strictly heredity. But it didn't necessarily end it on this forum. 8-)
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-16-2013 at 11:16 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Medicine and biochemistry are obviously more complex than physics. It's been decades since we landed a man on the moon and safely returned him to earth. Yet the researchers, the only people with any relevant training, right now are working on multiple, mutually exclusive etiologies for idiopathic scoliosis. They can't rule some things out and there is no guarantee they are working on the right thing. Maybe there is more than one right thing.
    Surely there is more than one right thing. We have discussed enough those issues. If researchers would be the only people with any relevant training, we are fucked!. They are in the best case only enjoying so much with their researches about facts and in the best case those researches are in order to prevent the scoliosis, not to help people having it. Fortunately there are some few exceptions.. but few.
    I have not any interest to discuss something so obvious any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post

    And yet some lay people think they will solve it with NO training and just 5 minutes on google. The research section is breath-taking.
    You talk as if your only preoccupation would be the researcher’s honor. Good for you, but try to show some kind of respect for people with a serious problem and trying to solve it as they can.
    And take in mind that someone may have a high degree in Biology, Chemistry, Medicine or Biochemistry, Physics, Maths or whatever you want, but talking about the scoliosis problem affecting the life of so many people around the world, everyone in the world are lay people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Do you get mad when people lie about you?

    Do you get mad when they assume wrong things?
    If they are wrong, try to not be disrespectful and indifferent with the serious problem that people may have and surely never more nobody will say or assume wrong things about you.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Medicine and biochemistry are obviously more complex than physics. It's been decades since we landed a man on the moon and safely returned him to earth.
    Not, what only it prove is that Engineers are advocated to solve problems using Physics facts and Medicine only have technicians (physicians) and researchers. If we would have not Engineers, we would continue riding horses.. as is it seems to be happening with medicine.. I may say that not only with scoliosis.

  11. #56
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    Only an ignorant, an idiot or bad person may disparage Tamztom work saying he is a lay person. About scoliosis problem all we are lays.

  12. #57
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    And certainly, what is Betz’s invention, more than a sophisticated brace? I’m losing something or any kid may understand how it works. What complex and intricate Biochemistry theory of the last years are behind it? All the fantastic researches in that knowledge area had nothing to do as I know.

  13. #58
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    Exactly Hdugger!! As researchers only does researches and there are not medical engineers, some good technicians had to play that role.. but doing what they know to do (surgery in this case)..
    Last edited by flerc; 05-16-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  14. #59
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    lesser of evils, is how i see what is available for scoli "tx"...
    no one wants to be in this club...
    we are in it, as grateful as i am for this forum, against what we
    would want for ourselves or loved ones...
    so personally, just in my opinion, it comes down to the lesser of
    the evils currently available...
    i am not real enthusiastic about any of the choices...
    but that is just my own view.
    to each their own.

    jess

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    What aggravates me is when people make unfounded claims about certain therapies for scoliosis across the board. Some therapies will probably help a group of scoliotics, but you can't apply the therapy across the board and tell everyone else that they are wrong (not saying you do at all). For some, the only help is a surgical solution. For others, less invasive therapies may manage the disease. People get so dogmatic about stuff that it drives me nuts. They get so hung up on one thing that they throw the scientific method completely out of the window. We're all looking for answers, but we have to be smart enough to wade through the nonsense and get to the important stuff.
    What people? Here in this forum? Who? Can you be more specific please?

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