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Thread: Gene Associated With Adolescent Idiopathic Scoliosis Identified

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    It looks like somebody whose name rhymes with KOOKA has 2 accounts. 8-)
    I reported it again for false accusation of having two accounts.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

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  2. #17
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    Of course Dingo should not be banned. Although some things cannot be proved, Iím sure nobody here may doubt both styles sounds really very similar. Of course it not necessarily implies is true what he suggested and he should to prove it in order to cannot be accused and he canít.. but is a fact this forum was full of any kind of not proved accusations much more serious .. certainly is not necessary to looks for other threads. I prefer to be accused of having 1000 accounts and not to be accused in the way that Dingo was accused by this SpiderPug. Those kind of members are who should to be banned for ever.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victine View Post
    Dingo, Never mind "KOOKA2". Some former "lurkers" have appreciated all your efforts.
    Thanks Victine. That's why I post! 8-)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Although some things cannot be proved, Iím sure nobody here may doubt both styles sounds really very similar.
    I didn't post that and I don't know who did.

    I dare you to call me a liar. Maybe you can get banned also.

    The constant folk science nonsense you and Dingo and a few others post is disgustingly ignorant and doesn't help people trying to figure this stuff out. You don't know what you don't know.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #20
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    As I did before, I only will accuse you about what I have proofs. Say what you want about me, I have not interest in reply your attacks. I know what I know and I know enough of you.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I've told you before, but it's worth saying it again - you do a tremendous amount of good. Your research and posting on exercise have so greatly improved my son's life, and I'm sure many others. Thank you for staying strong!
    You're too kind. 8-)

    Dealing with "characters" on the interwebs is easy.

    Worrying that my son's curve will progress is emotionally very, very tough for me. Since Scott's diagnosis I almost never look directly at his back, especially if his shirt is off. I just can't do it.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Dingo is winning me over to the "infectious agent" idea. But, the timing of the thing puzzles me. So, assuming the disease is endemic, why isn't it preferentially affecting younger children? It seems like that's the way most endemic diseases behave - they really ravage the very young, and then become less virulent when infecting older children. So, shouldn't we be seeing tons and tons of early onset and much fewer of the teen variety? What am I missing?
    I read a lot and nearly every disease seems to have a "most dangerous" age range.

    Here is a paragraph about Type 1 Diabetes.
    On average, in children under age 15, type 1 diabetes incidence increases as a child gets older. In other words, a person 10-14 years old has a higher risk of developing type 1 diabetes, someone 5-9 years old has a middle risk, and someone 0-4 years old has a lower risk. Someone 10-14 has about twice the risk of developing type 1 diabetes as someone under 5. This trend generally does not vary by gender.
    Type 1 Diabetes hits 10 -14 year old's the hardest. That's not so different from Scoliosis. It's anybodies guess why this is the case but most diseases seem to work in this general manner.

    If you look up different types of cancer, autoimmune diseases, infectious diseases etc. etc. they'll have an age range where they tend to strike hardest.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I know it's true of cancer and some other diseases, but I didn't think it was as true of infectious agents. It seems like those just hit the weakest immune system (very young or very old) first. Is there a well known infectious disease - something uncomplicated where everyone knows it's an infection - that preferentially strikes teenagers?
    The first disease that comes to mind is Meningitis.
    National Association of School Nurses: Voices of Meningitis
    They may not know it, but teenagers and young adults are at greater risk for getting meningococcal disease (meningitis) and are more likely to die compared to younger age groups. In fact, about 10% of the 1000 to 2600 Americans who get meningococcal meningitis each year will die. Death rates are up to 5 times higher among teenagers and young adults (15 through 24 years of age) compared to other age groups.
    I'm sure doctors could name a dozen infectious diseases that hit teens harder than other age groups.

    Every age group has a certain biology which creates varying weaknesses and strengths.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-15-2013 at 12:39 AM.

  9. #24
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    I just thought of another disease.

    Chickenpox is more common in children but far more dangerous in adults.
    National Health Services: Chickenpox
    Chickenpox tends to be more severe in adults than children, and adults have a higher risk of developing complications.
    Adults with chickenpox may benefit from taking antiviral medicine if treatment is started early in the course of the illness.

  10. #25
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    The first problem the gene people have is that no disease that looks like Scoliosis has ever been pinned on heredity. Ever. It's too widespread around the globe, too harmful and most of all too common among children. It runs exactly counter to what natural selection predicts, i.e. healthy offspring.

    When the large Danish study in 2007 and even larger Swedish twin study in 2012 found that the concordance rate for Scoliosis floated somewhere around 1 in 10 kids that was the icing on the cake.

    Not only did the gene theory run counter to the rules of biology but it wasn't supported by the two largest twin studies.

    Realistically speaking the gene theory of Scoliosis died in 2012 when the Swedish twin study was published. A bunch of junk science died with it. You might notice that this study isn't talked about anymore. It used a small sample of 21 pairs of twins and found that if one twin had Scoliosis the other had it over 90% of the time. Whoops. It looks like somebody used a small, poorly selected, unrepresentative sample.

    The theory that infectious disease causes Scoliosis may or may not be right. But there isn't a serious reason to believe that the gene theory is anything but wrong.

    Many people will continue to believe that Scoliosis is caused by heredity but that's a story about the nature of the human mind and how long it takes for old ideas to fade away.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-15-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    No study has ever shown that heredity successfully predicts if a child will get Scoliosis. If one identical twin has Scoliosis the co-twin suffers from Scoliosis just 1 in 10 times or thereabouts. For most people it's almost random. I don't know of a single case of Scoliosis in my family tree. There are many people on this board who have a strong family history of Scoliosis but I highly doubt those cases are genetic either. Evolution doesn't select for disease in children. If it did we'd see a whole variety of bone deformity diseases caused by heredity that hit 3% of children. Nothing like that exists.


    Scoliosis epidemic in Jamaica

    In any case many diseases that aren't genetic hit 1% +/- of people generation after generation. Heart disease has been common since the prehistoric era.

    Even Mummies Had Heart Disease, Study Finds
    I'm going to address these things one at a time:

    There are many disease that cause bone deformity in children.

    Heredity is an odds game. NO ONE can predict who will for sure get any heritable disease unless it is something that BOTH parents carry two copies of or a dominant sex-linked disease. Flip one penny and decide heads or tails 10 times and you will be right 50% of the time over many sets, the more sets, the closer to 50% you'll be. Now up it to twenty pennies and try to predict how many will be heads or tails. It's impossible for you to do that with one set. You can use math to predict how many overall will be heads or tails, but you can't predict anything about a single penny. It's an odds game. Period.

    NO ONE is saying that there absolutely can't be an environmental trigger. Many genetic diseases are multifactorial. No one is claiming that this is definitely something as straight forward as Cystic Fibrosis or Color Blindness or Tay Sach's Disease or Sickle Cell Anemia, etc.

    You need to get that twin thing out of your head. I already explained why there isn't 100% concordance in monozygotic twins. The concordance IS higher in monozygotic twins than it is in dizygotic twins. AND if you want to bring "evolution" into the picture, Natural Selection is just ONE theory of many. Natural Selection would MOST DEFINITELY allow scoliosis to continue because MOST cases are NOT life threatening. MOST people with scoliosis reach the age where they can reproduce, even if their scoliosis may be life threatening. Therefore, you have scoliotics having babies straight across the board. Natural Selection ONLY selects out those who either don't reach sexual maturity, OR they have defects that don't allow them to survive their environment, OR they are so undesirable to ALL other's of the opposite sex that they don't get a chance to reproduce. None of these fit most cases of scoliosis.

    There are two basic genetic explanations as to why your son developed scoliosis: 1. No "known" history of scoliosis in your family doesn't mean that there is no scoliosis. Many cases of scoliosis go undiagnosed. My own daughter has a scoliosis in the range of your son's and to look at her you'd never know it. 2. There's a thing called gene mutation. Sometimes errors occur during meiotic cell division. Many errors occur, especially in males because of mass production of gametes, or they can occur less frequently in young females. Older females have more errors because they are born with their supply of "eggs" that don't undergo meiosis until each menstrual cycle, making errors more common the older they get. Other things can damage gametes such as radiation, toxins, or microbial diseases. The bottom line is, either there is an unknown family history (very common) OR he has a genetic mutation.

    Heart disease is one of those multifactorial "genetic" diseases like I suspect scoliosis may be. It's a combination of genetics and lifestyle. That is IF you are talking about coronary artery disease. There are many "heart diseases", some of which are caused by problems in development in the womb among a multitude of other reasons I'm not going to discuss.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderPug View Post
    rohrer,

    I have lurked for a long time but rarely posted. It seems like a lost effort to argue reason or science with dingo. It seems very clear to me he is absolutely desperate to not be to blame for his son's scoliosis. He has to find another etiology that exonerates his genetic contribution to his son.

    I have followed dingo's outrageous arguments -- it will do no good to argue science and reason with him. He exists in his own scoliosis reality.
    Thank you, I think, for the support. I say that because I do try to discuss these things with Dingo, perhaps to my own chagrin. However, in Dingo's defense, I have learned some really interesting things from his research. Things like the melatonin pathway being disrupted and another pathway disruption that I don't recall off hand. These all point to heredity as playing a key role, probably to Dingo's chagrin.
    Be happy!
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    I'm not a psychologist, but I do have a masters degree. In science

    If we're going to hypothesize about psychological motivations, I suspect that a parent would feel *more* responsible for exposing their child to an infectious agent (something which they can avoid) then they would for passing on genetic material for a disease which did not apparently run in their family (something which would appear unavoidable).
    Out of curiosity, what field of science? I'm pretty sure that Pooka1 has a Ph.D. in science, yet admits she's no expert in biology or genetics.

    I don't know if I agree 100% about which makes a parent feel more guilty. When I learned that my kids had scoliosis, I felt pretty bad. When they got really sick I felt really scared, not guilty in the sense that I caused it. My daughter-in-law has a pretty severe scoliosis and had to be fused at age 16. She cried a lot of tears before marrying my son, who "had" JIS, because she wants children and is afraid they will have scoliosis.

    Your son's scoliosis probably happened during embryonic development. Just a fluke mistake during that critical time when the fold forms down the center of the embryo. Progression probably happened as a result of the hemi being present. I'm doubting that you have a family history of scoliosis. If you do, that puts a new twist on congenital scoliosis, at least in my mind since I don't know much about it. I think Dingo is primarily arguing idiopathic scoliosis.
    Be happy!
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    If those are the kind of comments you like to do, continue posting rarely or better stop for ever.. nobody will miss your posts here.
    That's just rude. People are allowed their own opinions, which YOU are not innocent of yourself. Remember your thread on Official Western Medicine, which you never defined, aimed specifically at Pooka1? Let's keep it nice.
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    There are many disease that cause bone deformity in children.
    Osteogenesis imperfecta is the first genetic bone diseases that popped up on Google. If you look at the photos it can lead to curved, deformed bones. Many children with Osteogenesis imperfecta also suffer from Scoliosis so it's relevant to AIS.

    The incidence of this disease is exactly what you'd expect from a genetic disease that deforms children.
    The prevalence of OI is estimated to be 1 in 20,000 to 50,000 infants.
    Scoliosis hits 3 in 100. Natural selection is a lot better than that. If it wasn't children wouldn't have any fitness at all.

    If you know of any genetic disease that deforms 3% of children's bones I'd like to read about it.
    Last edited by Dingo; 05-15-2013 at 12:59 PM.

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