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Thread: Bone Remodeling

  1. #16
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    It appears to be in lieu of halo traction. It appears to be ambulatory traction. They do an anterior release (remove discs) just like they do ahead of halo traction.

    After this procedure and halo traction is a definitive fusion. That is what is referred to as internal fixation in my opinion.

    Now it is up to the individual if they want to be in halo traction or have this ambulatory traction prior to fusion. That is for each person to decide.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
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    "We are all African."

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    for each person to decide.
    The point of the Russian article was the period of bone remodeling with external fixation per Flerc's question about bone remodeling in adults. He wanted to know if remodeling could take place in adults, and that paper suggested that it could.

    For surgical (not natural) remodeling, one can look at the (experimental) surgical remodeling without fusion, as described in the Betz article I cited earlier or this one:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...,f1000m,isrctn

    which only require the osteotomies without either traction or fusion.

  3. #18
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    That article does not appear to be about bone remodeling. They are removing discs and applying distraction ahead of a definitive fusion. Apples and oranges to bone remodeling.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #19
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    Everything around adult bone remodeling is confusing for me. But after seeing yesterday the Discovery tv program, I understand is definitely a fact. Adults bones shape may change in a natural and better way, they also can growth, something apparently imposible. Is a very good news really. We can use Wolf's principles in a non surgical or surgical way. External fixation is the surgical procedure used in adults bones, massively in legs of short stature people. It seems in Russia they used it for remodeling vertebras as I understand. Certainly if it would be possible to the same to what they are doing in legs, it would be possible to remodeling vertebras, it also would be possible to have bigger vertebras so it could be another way to be taller.
    I don't see where they says that some hardware remains inside but it would not surprids me, anyway it seems there would not be a lost of flexibility, not?.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Everything around adult bone remodeling is confusing for me.
    Dr. Sucato feels your pain and would like to help

    Here's part of a very interesting roundtable I ran across (addressing just growth modulation and comparing between leg and spine):

    "Sucato: Growth modulation has been extremely effective primarily in the lower extremities where we have a clear understanding of the physes or growth plates with respect to their direction and the rate of growth. We know that the distal femoral physis grows at a rate of approximately 9 mm/year while the proximal tibia grows at approximately 6 mm/year. However, spine growth is much more sophisticated since there are growth plates at the ends of the vertebrae as well as growth plates at the base of the pedicles (neurocentral synchondroses).

    Despite this, tethering devices have been utilized and have shown promising results in the spine, especially in animal models. . . . Growth modulation requires a surgical procedure and carries some risk for complications, especially because they are placed through an anterior surgical approach. There is also an unknown long-term outcome of the implants. Unlike any other implant in the spine utilized for spine deformity, these implants will always be between motion segments that are not fused and the possibility for migration is prsent. We continue to study the concepts of growth modulation at our institution and are excited to continue to investigate this technique to the point of utilizing it clinically.

  6. #21
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    Great Hdugger, thank him for me
    Certainly it seems to be something very new.. and Russia is very far from my country..
    In fact I'm interested in principles and surely they might be used in a more simple and safe way, something as done with DR method.
    I think Wolf's law talk about the intelligence of the body. Bones get the transformations required by circumstances. If more consistence is needed they turn more consistent if they need to grow, they grow. Great!

  7. #22
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    Certainly I'm not sure if allways bones seems to be intelligent.
    To growth in adulthood is the way to repair the broken zone when distraction forces are applied in that zone. Is a good behaviour in front of a difficult situation, but I heard that vertebral wedging in an adult curve never stop and if effectively it is true (is it?) it'd not seems to be having a right behavior in that case. Wolf's law should lead the concave side to be more consistent, because the pressure is greater in that side, so why the wedging? I only can imagine a distraction effect in the convex side.

  8. #23
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    Distraction was the main principle used in braces of other times, certainly in the super brace used centuries ago, when braces were not seen as a mysterious artefact coming from who knows where. It'd not surprise me if it provoked a major growth in the concave vertabra side. In the way that forces were applied, I think were greater in the concave side. But gravity force apply forces exactly in the opposite way, and certainly we may talk about a distraction in the convex side.
    And remodeling never stop, so it would be happening an 'external fixation' effect in that side, leading it to growth, and then incrementing the difference with the concave side.
    I'm right? I really hope to be saying something without any sense.

  9. #24
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    Flerc, I'm very interested in this topic. I don't have much of a scientific mind so I don't have analysis to add. But I follow your reasoning and your questions and I agree with your train of thought. When ever I come across articles on this topic I read them. I also read about tissue scaffolding--but I think that will take decades before it could possibly be of use to scoliosis patients. I discuss these approaches with the few people I know who are interested--a physical therapist, for instance. It seems that most doctors are set in their ways and don't really follow new areas of research--at least the surgeons don't. Accept for which screws to use, or which rods. Which I'm sure is ultra important but beyond surgery they really don't care. I think there is less research in this area because there's less money to be made from therapeutic approaches that might come out of it. Also, I think there's less research on scoliosis, in general, because the majority of new on-sets are teenage girls and that is a throw-away population in the US. Until we get a multi-billionaire who's daughter has scoliosis we're going to get no where. I understand that CLEAR, and their ilk, are considered hocus-pocus outfits but where are the substantive institutions that are offering hope of ANY kind?

  10. #25
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    Aterry! What a good news and coincidence!. Yesterday I was trying to remember your user name when I was rembering all the good people of those times.. too few still here.
    I don't know if you don't have much of a scientific mind, you may have it even without a good science background, but without any doubt you have common sense, criteria and logics to analyze that kind of problem. Expert knowledge is needed to get right conclusions and in these days decided to consult an osteologist who really wants to help people, not only to follow the protocol!. Is a great discovery I did some years ago, I hope she may know enough about this issue, but I think that physicians are something as technicians, knowing only about the work they must to do. I know she don't know about tissue engineering, but should to know enough Wolf's law. Certainly this kind of bone remodeling is done by the body in a natural way, so they should to know, but probably only researchers kows about these issues. We need to know about someone in this area.
    How is your daughter? Very sad what you says about teenage girls in USA, but probably is the same in every country.. medical decisions are hard to understand and anyway we live in the medical surgical age. This forum is realy according to it.
    We stay in contact!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aterry View Post
    Until we get a multi-billionaire who's daughter has scoliosis we're going to get no where
    Or just a determined Scottish father of reasonable means . . . . . who is getting somewhere.
    "The most deadly action you can take is to internalize someone else's negativity, for once you start to believe it, you’re sunk."

  12. #27
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    Yes, another chance really.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Distraction was the main principle used in braces of other times, certainly in the super brace used centuries ago, when braces were not seen as a mysterious artefact coming from who knows where. It'd not surprise me if it provoked a major growth in the concave vertabra side. In the way that forces were applied, I think were greater in the concave side. But gravity force apply forces exactly in the opposite way, and certainly we may talk about a distraction in the convex side.
    And remodeling never stop, so it would be happening an 'external fixation' effect in that side, leading it to growth, and then incrementing the difference with the concave side.
    I'm right? I really hope to be saying something without any sense.

    Distraction occurs in muscles across the convex spine side (also ligaments?), so those belonging to that side are larger, but I'm thinking that surely, the force that paraspinal muscles may does in order to keeping adjacent vertebras together, are absolutely uncomparable with what external fixation does. I don't know if some ligaments also are keeping adjacent vertebras close (but surely the same as about muscles may be said) and surely has not any sense to suppose that discs are doing that kind of cohesive force that effectively exists after a vertebral surgery as Vbs or fusion.
    So I suppose that in a spine with none surgery done, an external fixation effect is not possible.. but what may I know?..

    Although distraction in vertebras surely was also not possible in the super brace of other times, it seems that (because other reasons) the spine distraction acheived in those times was very much effective. It seems to be unfair it was avoided in current braces conception.
    Last edited by flerc; 01-14-2014 at 09:12 PM.

  14. #29
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    aterry,

    I sent you a PM.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 15, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently holding around 26 degrees)
    Under care of Dr. Randal Betz since 2004

    Also mom to Nicole (22) and Danny (25)

    Link to VBS Website: www.vertebralstapling.com

    Janet Cerrone, PA to Dr. Betz janetcerrone@spineandscoliosis.com or (609) 912-1500

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by aterry View Post
    Until we get a multi-billionaire who's daughter has scoliosis we're going to get no where.
    Not a "multi-billionaire" but Madonna is either the second or third richest woman in the UK (the other being J.K. Rowlings and the richest being Queen Elizabeth II) last I knew. Her daughter, Lourdes, has been spotted wearing a Spinecor brace.

    http://scoliosisnutty.blogspot.com/2...scoliosis.html

    It would be interesting to ask if Madonna is funding scoliosis research.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 04-05-2014 at 10:20 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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