Scoliosis Boot Camp

[mbowen]

I have never heard of anyone that has come out of this kind of surgery thrilled. If someone is considering surgery, then they can read the post that 2 kids have died and make their on decisions. All surgeries have risk, that is just a known fact. So if you are such a fan of surgery, what happens to these kids in 15 years when that hardware wears out? Oh yes, more and more surgeries!

[Pooka1]

The second doctor recommended surgery.

When we arrived our daughters curvature was at 33 degrees.

Hi. Can you tell us which surgeon recommended surgery on a 33* curve that has no evidence of progression? That is not believable. I'm sorry. Could you have misunderstood?

Also, can you post the before and after radiographs showing a reduction of a 33* down to 9*?

Also will your daughter have to do the PT twice a day for the rest of her life?

Thanks in advance.

ps. In case you are driven away, I'll say bye in advance. :-)

[Pooka1]

I have never heard of anyone that has come out of this kind of surgery thrilled. If someone is considering surgery, then they can read the post that 2 kids have died and make their on decisions. All surgeries have risk, that is just a known fact. So if you are such a fan of surgery, what happens to these kids in 15 years when that hardware wears out? Oh yes, more and more surgeries!

How do you know those people wouldn't have died sooner without the surgery?

[Pooka1]

I have never heard of anyone that has come out of this kind of surgery thrilled.!

Please read this forum. You'll see plenty of cases.

[tonibunny]

It would be wonderful to see some x-rays please! I had surgery back in 1986 and am delighted with the results to this day (despite having an old-style Harrington Rod) but of course, if results can possibly be achieved without the need to go through surgery then that's marvellous.

X-rays are the only way to definitively prove that a treatment works so of course we are all excited to see them. This is true of any method, surgical or nonsurgical. And naturally, it's important to get those x-rays verified by someone medically trained rather than just a chiropractor. Please let us see the x-rays! Thanks

[Pooka1]

Hi Tonibunny!!!

Good points you make. I suspect it was a chiro who told her if she went to a surgeon with the 33* he would want to fuse her immediately. The confusion comes in because chiros get to use the "Dr." title here.

[jrnyc]

"mbowen" used Clear for her daughter...
seems strange that everyone who uses Clear and comes on forum knows
people who "died" and knows NO ONE glad they had surgery...
i do not think anyone is "thrilled" at having scoliosis or needing surgery...
who is ever "thrilled" with needing surgery?!
but many have come to forum and written that, given their options, they
are pleased with their surgical results.

jess

[Pooka1]

"mbowen" used Clear for her daughter...
seems strange that everyone who uses Clear and comes on forum knows
people who "died" and knows NO ONE glad they had surgery...
i do not think anyone is "thrilled" at having scoliosis or needing surgery...
who is ever "thrilled" with needing surgery?!
but many have come to forum and written that, given their options, they
are pleased with their surgical results.

jess

Great point, Jess.

I think there are real parents but it sounds like they are all parroting bad information they are getting from these PT outfits.

[leahdragonfly]

Hi,

I tend to steer clear of the CLEAR threads because so many of these so-called testimonials sound alike, and I have to think they are plants. It is just so amazing to me that these parents claim absolutely unbelievable results (i.e. from 33 to 9 in 2 weeks--really??) and they all spew bile about how many people have died (that they know) from scoliosis surgery. And mbowen stated that the hardware "wears out" after 15 years, which is simply not true. The hardware's job is to hold everything still while fusion occurs. After that the hardware has no purpose, and does not just wear out and require more surgery.

If these results were really real, why wouldn't the insurance companies be jumping all over this and stop paying for expensive surgeries and braces?? Why is it that these results only seem to come from Stitzel? I mean, how come he can't teach others to use his method so successfully? And why are these parents allowing their kids to have multiple x-rays done once per week???

It just does not add up to a legitimate treatment. I too would love to see the before and after x-rays from this supposed wonder case.

[Pooka1]

Hi,

I tend to steer clear of the CLEAR threads because so many of these so-called testimonials sound alike, and I have to think they are plants. It is just so amazing to me that these parents claim absolutely unbelievable results (i.e. from 33 to 9 in 2 weeks--really??) and they all spew bile about how many people have died (that they know) from scoliosis surgery. And mbowen stated that the hardware "wears out" after 15 years, which is simply not true. The hardware's job is to hold everything still while fusion occurs. After that the hardware has no purpose, and does not just wear out and require more surgery.

If these results were really real, why wouldn't the insurance companies be jumping all over this and stop paying for expensive surgeries and braces?? Why is it that these results only seem to come from Stitzel? I mean, how come he can't teach others to use his method so successfully? And why are these parents allowing their kids to have multiple x-rays done once per week???

It just does not add up to a legitimate treatment. I too would love to see the before and after x-rays from this supposed wonder case.

We will never see those radiographs.

CLEAR was trying to publish evidence of efficacy a few years ago. Has it ever been published? Do they really need to be effective when there are enough people out there who are so scared of surgery to try anything without evidence of efficacy? I am beyond being concerned with adults who don't know enough to demand evidence. But subjecting children to chiro for scoliosis is a case for concern because they are being given counterfactual information about surgery (CLEAR's forum now has a surgery section LOL) and because these kids might be missing critical time windows for real treatments.

[LindaRacine]

"mbowen" used Clear for her daughter...
seems strange that everyone who uses Clear and comes on forum knows
people who "died" and knows NO ONE glad they had surgery...
i do not think anyone is "thrilled" at having scoliosis or needing surgery...
who is ever "thrilled" with needing surgery?!
but many have come to forum and written that, given their options, they
are pleased with their surgical results.

jess

EXACTLY! Perfect Jess.

[LindaRacine]

Hi,

I tend to steer clear of the CLEAR threads because so many of these so-called testimonials sound alike, and I have to think they are plants. It is just so amazing to me that these parents claim absolutely unbelievable results (i.e. from 33 to 9 in 2 weeks--really??) and they all spew bile about how many people have died (that they know) from scoliosis surgery. And mbowen stated that the hardware "wears out" after 15 years, which is simply not true. The hardware's job is to hold everything still while fusion occurs. After that the hardware has no purpose, and does not just wear out and require more surgery.

If these results were really real, why wouldn't the insurance companies be jumping all over this and stop paying for expensive surgeries and braces?? Why is it that these results only seem to come from Stitzel? I mean, how come he can't teach others to use his method so successfully? And why are these parents allowing their kids to have multiple x-rays done once per week???

It just does not add up to a legitimate treatment. I too would love to see the before and after x-rays from this supposed wonder case.

Another EXACTLY. Thanks Gayle.

[mariaf]

And naturally, it's important to get those x-rays verified by someone medically trained rather than just a chiropractor.

Exactly.

Chiropractors should not be claiming they can permanently reduce curves because the proof simply doesn't exist, nor should they, IMHO, be treating children with scoliosis.

If this 'proof' exists somewhere, will they please share it with the rest of the world!!

"Dr." Stitzel is a chiropractor - and CLEAR stands for "Chiropractic Leadership, Educational Advancement & Research".

Enough said.

[flerc]

When we arrived our daughters curvature was at 33 degrees.

Mbowen I understand you if you don't want to post the x-rays of your daughter in the net. Is something personal, some people have not any problem but we are not all equal and certainly in this forum we trust in what members says, even new members as you.
But of course, is something not really usual such significant reduction. You should to learn to measure the degrees by yourself or asks to 2 differents surgeons to do it. I don't know why but even some surgeons has difficulties to measure x-rays, so is really very probably they was not measured in a right way. I hope you'll do it and confirm us this good news. It will not surprise me since all I have read about CLEAR methods has really very much sense.

[LindaRacine]

Mbowen I understand you if you don't want to post the x-rays of your daughter in the net. Is something personal, some people have not any problem but we are not all equal and certainly in this forum we trust in what members says, even new members as you.

What is the difference between posting the degrees of one's curves and posting the xrays?