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Thread: Alternative to surgery? Chiropractor?

  1. #61
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    I dont understand anything from what you just said :P

    What exactly is autograft and what allograft? can you explain the differences?

    The fusion material? You mean the titanium?

    What material they get from the pelvis?

    I'm confused :/[/QUOTE]


    Hi Spyros,

    The fusion material can be a mixture of donated bone (allograft,) your own bone (autograft) and BMP, (a bio product that helps bone grow quickly.) I had all three. The autograft was bone taken from my spine from osteotomies. But sometimes, if they can't get enough of your bone from the spine, they take it from the back of your pelvis. This can cause soreness down the track in some patients, so if the doctor can avoid this, he probably will. To the best of my knowledge, the bone is crushed and mixed with the BMP and the mixture is laid along your spine which then fuses to your spine, making your spine rigid. Others may be able to elaborate on that.
    Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
    Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
    T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
    Osteotomies and Laminectomies
    Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

  2. #62
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    Jan 2013
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    Corfu, Greece
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferG View Post

    Hi Spyros,

    The fusion material can be a mixture of donated bone (allograft,) your own bone (autograft) and BMP, (a bio product that helps bone grow quickly.) I had all three. The autograft was bone taken from my spine from osteotomies. But sometimes, if they can't get enough of your bone from the spine, they take it from the back of your pelvis. This can cause soreness down the track in some patients, so if the doctor can avoid this, he probably will. To the best of my knowledge, the bone is crushed and mixed with the BMP and the mixture is laid along your spine which then fuses to your spine, making your spine rigid. Others may be able to elaborate on that.
    Thanks Jennifer!

    Now seems i understood the difference between these. But I still dont understand why they need a fusion material (bone)?
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    Thanks Jennifer!

    Now seems i understood the difference between these. But I still dont understand why they need a fusion material (bone)?
    Spyros, the fusion is new bone growth over the vertebra. The rods only hold the spine in place until that happens. Then they are doing nothing and can be removed if necessary though it is rarely necessary.

    Please look at the first .jpg in this post to see a CT scan of a fusion.

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...814#post146814
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Spyros, the fusion is new bone growth over the vertebra. The rods only hold the spine in place until that happens. Then they are doing nothing and can be removed if necessary though it is rarely necessary.

    Please look at the first .jpg in this post to see a CT scan of a fusion.

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...814#post146814
    0o Thanks for searching to old topics and find that image for me! It couldn't be better so as i understand it!

    I have researched info for scoliosis surgery and i have read many many stories of other people for months.. But I wasn't able to understand it and didn't bother to ask about that.

    Thanks guys!
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  5. #65
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    By the way, that is a fusion from the side so the new bone is on the front of the spine. I think you will likely be having a fusion from the back so the new bone will be on the back of your spine.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #66
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    Probably only from back, yes.

    I m sending an email to doctor tomorrow, to ask many things i have on my mind. I just wanna figure it out how i ll ask the thing with the fusion material :P

    Btw when you say that I ll probably be in pain if they take bone from the pelvis, you mean for just a few days after surgery or a long term pain?
    Last edited by Spyros; 02-11-2013 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Added a question.
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyros View Post
    Probably only from back, yes.

    I m sending an email to doctor tomorrow, to ask many things i have on my mind. I just wanna figure it out how i ll ask the thing with the fusion material
    Ask WHERE he will get bone from and IF he will use BMP. That will cover it.

    Btw when you say that I ll probably be in pain if they take bone from the pelvis, you mean for just a few days after surgery or a long term pain?
    I didn't say that but I totally agree. It is LONG TERM PAIN that never goes away in some cases. I have a friend who still had bad pain at the site of the bone harvest though she has no pain with her spine after it was fused. That is crazy to trade one pain for another.

    Do NOT allow them to take bone from your hip unless the surgeon guarantees you the fusion will fail if he doesn't and maybe not even then. I was prepared to refuse this procedure with my daughters.

    Good luck.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #68
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    Thanks Jen and Sharon for filling in. I get so busy at work during the week, its hard to reply.....

    Spyros, Here is the question and answer page from the SRS. (Be sure to select next page at the bottom)

    This will help answer some of your questions.

    http://www.srs.org/patient_and_famil..._scoliosis.htm

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #69
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    Thanks Ed for the helpful site.

    So, in your opinion which is the best method for the fusion material to have? Autograft? Allograft? or BMP?
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  10. #70
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    That is best left up to the surgeons. I had no bone used at all on me, it was BMP and other synthetic bone cement products that I donít know about.

    As long as you fuse, I guess it doesnít matter much. BMP is expensive and generally used on older patients and problem patients that donít fuse.

    The main goal is fusion.....thatís why you should take things easy and not lift or bend or twist. After you fuse, your good to go and jump out of airplanes, or wrestle with alligators. (smiley face)

    Be prepared to take things easy for a long time.....I donít know when your surgeon will release you for certain activities, but I took it very easy for the first 9 months. Better to be safe than sorry, you only get one chance at this.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    25

    functional or structural

    Spiros
    Since you have already scheduled your surgery, I post this in order for you to try to understand as much as you can about your condition. I attached a screenshot (hopefully it will upload) of your pelvis with horizontal lines. In my non-expert opinion, I do think you do have a short left leg. ( I am assuming the x-ray was performed in a standing position) Our x-rays look amazingly similar and our curves are about the same. By the shading on the x-ray, it also looks like there is hip rotation. (just like me) If I am correct, I believe that makes your condition a functional scoliosis. At this point, it is not that important, but I think you should confirm either way. I am pointing this out so that after your surgery you have a plan to deal with the possibility of a short leg. You may, like me, have to wear a heel lift to balance your body. Please accept this post in the spirit it was written and that is to share experiences.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkochis View Post
    Spiros
    Since you have already scheduled your surgery, I post this in order for you to try to understand as much as you can about your condition. I attached a screenshot (hopefully it will upload) of your pelvis with horizontal lines. In my non-expert opinion, I do think you do have a short left leg. ( I am assuming the x-ray was performed in a standing position) Our x-rays look amazingly similar and our curves are about the same. By the shading on the x-ray, it also looks like there is hip rotation. (just like me) If I am correct, I believe that makes your condition a functional scoliosis. At this point, it is not that important, but I think you should confirm either way. I am pointing this out so that after your surgery you have a plan to deal with the possibility of a short leg. You may, like me, have to wear a heel lift to balance your body. Please accept this post in the spirit it was written and that is to share experiences.
    Thanks that you made that effort for me.

    I have already noticed it and i was like '0o sh1t'. But right after i checked in my original x-rays, I observed that it was wrong the shot of the photo.

    Here is another photo i got which is more accuracy: Pelvis.jpg

    You still can see a difference of 3mm or less, but I guess is nothing.. probably is my position or the x-ray or I dont have 100% perfect legs or whatever.
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  13. #73
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    Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkochis View Post
    Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.
    I have already asked my surgeon about that and we will check it before surgery.

    Thanks rkochis!
    25 Years old male with thoracic 68 degrees and lumbar 34 degrees of scoliosis.

    Straight Position: Attachment 1432
    Bent to the Right: Attachment 1430
    Bent to the Left: Attachment 1429
    Side Position: Attachment 1431
    Pelvis: Pelvis.jpg

  15. #75
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkochis View Post
    Final thoughts on the subject of short leg.... I was not aware that using x-ray the legs can be measured vary precisely until a physiatrist recommended it. They will measure L and R femur and tibia. In my case, the total of the left was 2.08 cc shorter. It took 62 years for me to find out.
    Rkochis, is your line from coccyx to head, absolutely perpendicular to the floor? Is a simple test to do at home.

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