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Thread: Hey Clinic - Another collapse case in an adult

  1. #1
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    Hey Clinic - Another collapse case in an adult

    http://drlloydhey.blogspot.com/2012/...iosis-and.html

    Yesterday we straightened up this 53 yo woman who was really suffering with a collapsing idiopathic and degenerative scoliosis. Her surgery went very well, and we got a very nice correction. She is doing well this morning, and smiled big time when she saw this X-Ray hanging up on her window. She did not need to go to ICU, and will get up walking today.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #2
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    When my nurse first showed me my x-rays, I couldn’t believe how straight my spine looked....It was a needed boost, a small light at the end of the tunnel that I needed at the time being in survival mode. I would love to be able to show a person his or her x-ray since I know what its like to be on the receiving end. Maybe some day I can do this.

    I think its great that some of the readers here can see that big degenerated curves can be fixed....There is no reason to lose hope when these things are truly possible, these surgeries are happening all the time.

    The lateral listhesis x-ray at the bottom looks pretty bad (only 50 degrees) and it’s a shame that heavy meds were used to maintain pain levels and a sense of sanity. Maybe it wasn’t worth waiting. In fact I know it wasn’t worth waiting for. There are times that surgery is the only answer, this persons case proves that. Living with a spine that looks like that isn’t worth it. If you are having problems walking with scoliosis and are afraid, its time to visit a scoliosis surgeon, you owe it to yourself.

    As a scoliosis survivor, I cannot express how thankful I truly am. Through the years I didn’t know when my time would come, but now with improved technology, waiting as long as I did is not necessary anymore.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    There are times that surgery is the only answer, this persons case proves that.
    Hey Ti Ed,

    I don't think anyone doubts this. You can even find 6-sigma chiros admitting that surgery is necessary in some cases.

    People may try various conservative methods to stave of surgery but if they need surgery then they need surgery and folks in that category usually come to that realization.

    This idea is often labeled as "pro-surgery" but in fact is just "pro-reality." Nobody likes surgery but most people accept the need for it in cases where it can cut losses.

    The only debate is whether conservative methods work to stave off surgery for life.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #4
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    Sharon

    A Six Sigma Chiro? Wow! I didn’t know.... Do they train at GE? (chuckle, chuckle)

    There are many of us elder surgical candidates that wait because we are scared to DEATH regardless of the reality. I was one of them. Destroying your liver and minds on heavy meds is not a good idea.

    “Pro reality” usually doesn’t happen in the fog of meds, and mixed multiple meds.

    Conservative methods after having major degeneration is a tough road, but many of us still keep hanging on. It was only when the pain started hitting line voltage rates, that I knew I was in serious trouble. I know there are many out there reading this.

    I think that Dr Hey’s blog is great! Thanks for posting it here.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  5. #5
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    not exactly sure what i am looking at when i look at the
    X ray and pic...

    i do know that i have listhesis..."left lateral listhesis of L3
    on L4 and L 2 on L3" (confirmed with X ray) also have "visible thoracic lordosis compensatory for the left lower thoracic kyphosis" and "on bending, there are 5 degree left high thoracic and 14 degrees lumbar prominences to Scoliometer measurement"...those last two comments per Boachie in 2007....6 years ago this January....
    i do not even know what all that means....guess i should....
    and am seeing Lonner end of next month to discuss my latest
    X ray that shows increase of curve 61 degree lumbar (2 years ago)
    to 70 degrees last year....

    i have not had surgery....nor have i made any decision...
    pain is worse without my lovely SI joint steroid shots,
    which i can no longer have, due to cortisol reaction....

    the decision is not easy....and the fact that my spine seems
    to be getting worse is not making the decision any easier for me....
    my spine seems to be collapsing...and i am quite sure i was one of
    those people with smaller size curves when younger, who was not
    SUPPOSED to have curves get large enuf for surgery....but who
    DID.

    jess

  6. #6
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    Jess

    I don’t believe we have seen your x-rays? Did you ever post them?

    I sure hope that you don’t look like that bottom x-ray in the blog.....it looks incredibly painful.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  7. #7
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    hi Ed
    thanks...it does hurt...
    to me, the X ray shown above looks like one curve...???????
    i have 2 curves...thoracic is 42 degrees and doesnt cause nearly
    as much pain as lower curve does...plus, herniated discs
    are in lower spine as well....
    i do not know how to post X rays...
    i can ask someone to help do it...
    latest X ray was done last January....showed increase
    of lumbar curve to 70 degrees according to CT doc
    who looked at it...
    guessing Lonner may want a new X ray done when i see
    him October 25th...April 2010 X ray Lonner did showed 61
    degree lumbar...

    jess...& Sparky
    Last edited by jrnyc; 10-05-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  8. #8
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    Jess

    Ask someone for help with posting the x-rays....If you have the films, you can take a picture with a camera and download to your computer. Hang x-rays in a window, and take a few shots to see what looks best. Its really an easy thing for someone to do, you might have to cook them dinner.... Like Adam Sandler with the meatballs in “The wedding singer” (smiley face)

    You don’t want to have any surprises and wait till the door slams shut. I hate to say this, but its true. I almost had it happen to me.

    If you post your x-rays, Linda could show them to Dr Hu and UCSF team. They look at millions of spine x-rays there and of course, its their main interest.

    Different surgeons will use various ways of conveying the urgency of surgery. Some will not push it especially with someone that’s scared to death. My surgeon told me I should have been done many many years ago, and shook his head. “Why did you wait so long?” he asked. I just gave him a blank look. You could have 5 surgeons give the same response due to this but one will tip the scales of decision.

    When things get serious and a surgeon isn’t comfortable, its pretty simple, they just say “I wont do it”. We have seen this here on this forum. I also went to a scoli meeting years ago and had a lady crying on my shoulder since she was rejected due to osteoperosis issues. An important factor for the ladies.

    The x-rays in this blog prove that its not just about Cobb angles. You can have a 50 in a teen and a 50 in a 50 plus year old adult and its not the same due to degeneration. Spondy’s are no fun, and resulting stenosis is also no fun....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylolisthesis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbar_spinal_stenosis

    All article’s usually say that surgery is considered after 6-12 months of conservative treatment.

    I sometimes think I’m the luckiest person here on this forum. But, you know that there are many like me that are doing just as well and should post. I was one who did the conservative thing for many years but always knew that I had to get it done. It took a strong determination and will to commit. And my surgeon also wanted that strong determination from me. He wanted me to have a STRONG will to succeed in my recovery.
    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #9
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    hi Ed
    Linda did show X ray...have it on disc...to some surgeon
    at UCSF...he is conservative and advised against my
    having surgery...i was shocked and pretty disillusioned with
    the place...
    i will send you a PM

    i will have someone help me get X ray posted...
    thanks for concern....much appreciated...

    jess...& Sparky
    P.S. prediction is for snowy winter....snow in middle of country
    already....you should have a great ski season.

  10. #10
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    Jess

    You know that surgery is usually a last ditch effort. If in doubt, do nothing. For a quick analysis, this would seem to be the logical thing to do especially with not meeting the patient.

    The good news is that this surgeon didn’t see anything really alarming which is good. If someone calls me from across the country, I want to know how serious they are and if I will resume thinking about their project. Should I spend time on this? How much time should I expend on this? I guess it depends on how busy a person really is......

    Predicting snow is the same as predicting scoliosis curves using conservative methods. We have the numbers, but each case and each season is dependent on many factors, factors we are only learning more about.

    Be sure to let us know how your visit goes with Dr Lonner.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 58, the new 53...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  11. #11
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    thanks Ed...you are so kind and thoughtful...
    it was confusing, but i do believe if i had seen him
    in person, and clarified the misperceptions, he would
    have given a different recommendation.

    i look forward to hearing your ski stories this year
    i wish you all the snow you wish for...out where you
    live.

    jess...& Sparky

  12. #12
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    Wow...I'm pretty sure that article on dr hey's blog is the new forum member juliaAnn! Same story, same X-rays. Even the writing on the X-rays is the same. Pretty neat
    38 yo with 71* left thoracolumbar curve from untreated AIS dx'd @ age 10. Surgery on for Jan 3, 2013 with Dr.'s Robertson and http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps321159d8.jpg. Spinal Fusion with instrumentation from T2-L4.

  13. #13
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    IMGP0349_1 (2).jpghttp://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...530#post144530
    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    not exactly sure what i am looking at when i look at the
    X ray and pic...

    i do know that i have listhesis..."left lateral listhesis of L3
    on L4 and L 2 on L3"
    (confirmed with X ray) also have "visible thoracic lordosis compensatory for the left lower thoracic kyphosis" and "on bending, there are 5 degree left high thoracic and 14 degrees lumbar prominences to Scoliometer measurement"...those last two comments per Boachie in 2007....6 years ago this January....
    i do not even know what all that means....guess i should....
    and am seeing Lonner end of next month to discuss my latest
    X ray that shows increase of curve 61 degree lumbar (2 years ago)
    to 70 degrees last year....

    i have not had surgery....nor have i made any decision...
    pain is worse without my lovely SI joint steroid shots,
    which i can no longer have, due to cortisol reaction....

    the decision is not easy....and the fact that my spine seems
    to be getting worse is not making the decision any easier for me....
    my spine seems to be collapsing...and i am quite sure i was one of
    those people with smaller size curves when younger, who was not
    SUPPOSED to have curves get large enuf for surgery....but who
    DID.

    jess
    Jess--I'm not sure what part you don't understand... I had lateral listhesis of L2/L3 and L3/L4. You can see it in my x-rays that I've messed up the link to in my signature, but you can still get to by clicking on the either of the other links and then click on the the album that is "pictures of my x-rays". (or something like that) Lateral listhesis is a sideways shifting or stair-stepping of your vertebrae and is dangerous and needs to be taken care of. In my pictures, my doctor has drawn around the area. I actually have a better example here at home. But at least you can imagine what damage that can result in to your spinal cord if it continues. It would be the middle picture (2nd picture) in that group. I'll see if I can just post it here instead.

    The x-ray was really dark so I lightened it up some, in case you looked right when I first posted it...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Susie*Bee; 11-28-2012 at 05:56 PM.
    66 and still heartbroken...
    2007 52° w/ severe lumbar stenosis & L2L3 lateral listhesis (side shift)
    5/4/07 posterior spinal fusion T2-L4 w/ laminectomies and osteotomies @L2L3, L3L4
    Dr. Kim Hammerberg, Rush Univ. Medical Center in Chicago

    Corrected to 15°
    2014 DXd w/CMT (type 2)

    Click to view my pics: pics of scoli x-rays digital x-rays, and pics of me

  14. #14
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    Susie, I am having the exact same levels fused as you ( although dr Eberson did say I have slight degeneration in L5 but won't be able to tell about fusing any further than L4 until he has my back open). I would love to hear how your surgery and recovery went, how you felt before (physically ), etc. IF you have time. Thank you in advance!
    38 yo with 71* left thoracolumbar curve from untreated AIS dx'd @ age 10. Surgery on for Jan 3, 2013 with Dr.'s Robertson and http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps321159d8.jpg. Spinal Fusion with instrumentation from T2-L4.

  15. #15
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    Jennilee-- I'll send you a PM
    66 and still heartbroken...
    2007 52° w/ severe lumbar stenosis & L2L3 lateral listhesis (side shift)
    5/4/07 posterior spinal fusion T2-L4 w/ laminectomies and osteotomies @L2L3, L3L4
    Dr. Kim Hammerberg, Rush Univ. Medical Center in Chicago

    Corrected to 15°
    2014 DXd w/CMT (type 2)

    Click to view my pics: pics of scoli x-rays digital x-rays, and pics of me

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