Pilates Miracle?

[Pooka1]

Scoliosis surgery offered at the Marc A. Asher, MD Comprehensive Spine Center

http://www.spine-health.com/doctor/s...e-spine-center

If he really thinks fusion of AIS is not warranted then this takes hypocrisy to symphonic levels.

If it doesn't make sense then it probably isn't true.

[carolmr]

Titaniumed, I understand what you're saying about your dad. My dad had scoliosis (it runs in his family and I assume I inherited it from him). It got worse and worse over the years, but he never spoke about it or complained about it. It was difficult for him to find shirts that fit correctly, but that was a day in the park compared to Iwo Jima. I guess everything is relative. God bless him, he lived to be 85. He had successful heart surgery but died of hospital-acquired MRSA. But I don't have his outlook on life. I wasn't injured on Iwo Jima; I never lived through the Great Depression. So sometimes my scoliosis takes up too much of my time, so to speak. I would love to wear a bathing suit and nice tops, but I can't because I'm ashamed of my back. My shoulder blade is protruding even more, one hip is higher than the other, and one leg is shorter than the other. My kyphosis is worse. I haven't been to an orthopedic doctor in years, so I don't know what my curve is now. I would love to know if I'm a candidate for surgery, but after my dad's experience with MRSA, I'm afraid of surgery.
I don't think that what Sharon said is repugnant. Sometimes when I look in the mirror from the side, I think I look like a hunchback. I have no idea what other people think of my back and I don't think I'd want to know.

[Pooka1]

I don't think that what Sharon said is repugnant. Sometimes when I look in the mirror from the side, I think I look like a hunchback. I have no idea what other people think of my back and I don't think I'd want to know.

Thank you for your perspective. You should not care what others think. But it certainly DOES matter what YOU think!

I saw the damage this was doing to my kids and it required treatment. It is a 1,000% certainty my daughter's life would be ruined absent surgery even if she lived. She probably would have refused to leave the house at some point. If someone doubts how much scoliosis can deform a person and ruin their physical and mental well being then they need to get out more. It is NOT POSSIBLE that I would have withheld surgery from my child nor do I think it is possible Asher would have do so had he had a child like mine.

If it doesn't make sens then it probably isn't true FULL STOP.

[carolmr]

Sharon, I totally believe you when you say your daughter's life would not be the same if she had not had the surgery. I have been on lots of scoliosis sites and I could not believe some of the pictures I saw. Very bad curves can certainly deform a child's or teen's body.
As far as exercise, I'm 58 and I think that train has left the station for me.
What I wish more than ever is for a doctor or scientist to find the CAUSE of scoliosis.
Scoliosis seems to affect girls more than boys. Why? Because boys' growth is slower and more "even"? Girls seem to have a single growth spurt; maybe this explains why the spine can grow awry. I have no idea what I'm talking about - just thinking about it too much, I guess.

[Pooka1]

I have no idea what I'm talking about - just thinking about it too much, I guess.

Carol, actually I think you know exactly what you are talking about.

I don't believe any parent here would allow such a deformity to ruin their child's life. I don't think I am adequately getting across how obvious these deformities can get in real life, not just in medical text books. I would not be able to live with myself if I withheld surgery. My child would hate me and she would be correct. It's beyond cruel.

I don't know what the future holds but I damn well saw what was happening in the present. Quality of life matters to people dealing with it. My kids only have one shot at high school. If this surgery goes south later in life, it was STILL the obvious correct choice. We could all get hit by a bus tomorrow. This is a game of cutting losses. It is not understandable in any other terms.

[titaniumed]

Carol

Even though our fathers might have ignored it, It wasn’t wise. They also had that older mentality that hospitals and surgery are extremely scary, that its something you read about in the papers, or happened to somebody else. Things have come a long long way in the last 50 years. There is a concept call health maintenance these days. (smiley face) If the guys flip out about your air cleaner during your oil change, that should be a signal to get x-rays on your spine! LOL They do this every time....Only $24.95. Coffee filters cost 1 cent. Cholesterol is another one to watch, have that blood work done.

If you do not know where you are at with your spine, you really need to go visit a scoliosis surgeon. Get those x-rays, and an evaluation. At least you know where you stand....make your decisions after this meeting. Good spine surgeons will not push you, and understand that even if you need surgery for some reason, we need time to absorb this fact. Gathering sound scoliosis advice from a model on the Ellen show isn’t, even if some methods do work for some people. Making an attempt at SEAS or another alt method might be worth it or is worth it if you are much younger.....a whole different situation.

I don’t think that many people notice us leaning...most know nothing about this stuff, but everyone has scoliosis or they know someone with scoliosis. I never had any issues with the way I looked, but you really couldn’t notice much before or after my surgeries. I had an upper right rib hump and a huge lower left lumbar hump, but it didn’t matter all that much. My best friend has a wooden leg,(phocomelia) he had it much harder, at the beach, he used to hop on one leg to get down to the water to go swimming. Scoliosis isn’t that bad, there is worse. Much worse.

Did you ever have an MD say that you might need scoliosis surgery some day? Did you ever have x-rays taken at some point? How is the pain?
Ed

[jrnyc]

my personal opinion.....i do not like anything that even smacks of blaming
a patient for not being willing enuf to exercise...
first ...if it took minor amount of exercise, more would be doing it...
second....i agree that many many many curves are not amenable to exrcise making
a difference in curves...
maybe exercise can make those people feel better...but change their curves...?
excuse me for having an opinion...nope, not buying it...show me,...i want to SEE it for myself
to believe...
i have been in too much pain for several years to exercise anymore...
back when i did, i exercised to feel better and be healthier...
worked for a while, til the discs herniated and pain got overwhelming...
but i did not believe curves of my size, in an adult, could be influenced by
exercise....

i am not a big believer in "miracles" with exercise...
not that i cannot believe a miracle could happen...
but this stuff being discussed doesn't qualify, in my book...
that's just my personal view...
and i don't find anything you said repugnant, Sharon...
i know everything you do is for the good of your daughters....

jess

[LindaRacine]

Tom...

Can you tell me where you heard that quote from Marc Asher? I'd like to get his clarification on it. If, indeed, he did say it, I'm sure he either didn't mean to say it, or he was talking about some specific condition. In the past, I've found him to be about as level headed as anyone I know.

Thanks.

Regards,
Linda

[Pooka1]

If Asher really thinks that then he therefore considers all his colleagues (from Boachie and Lenke and Lonner on down) who continue to help kids by doing AIS fusions as evil or stupid. It follows as night follows day.

If it doesn't make sense it probably isn't true. Or Asher is going senile... he was born in 1938 which would make him 74.

[carolmr]

Ed, I think the last time I went to a surgeon and had x-rays was about 15 years ago. He said my curve was worse than he thought after taking the x-rays. I remember him saying that if it were just two degrees more, I would have a problem. I took that to mean that I may need surgery. I honestly don't remember what degree my curve was. I just know that I lost two inches in height since then and finding clothes that accomodate my shoulder blade is becoming more difficult. I can see for myself in the mirror that my shoulder blade is protruding more and more. Pain? Not too bad. I feel the most pain after long walks, especially if I'm carrying something. Yes, I need to get myself to a surgeon again. I have let too many years pass.
Sharon, I agree with you. I can't believe Dr. Marc is sorry that he performed all those AIS surgeries. Doesn't make sense.

[titaniumed]

Carol

Well, your not the only one out there, that’s for sure. There are many scoli’s with HUGE curves your age. I don’t know how they do it honestly. I have brought this up recently on several posts, about going in and at least knowing where you stand. A scoliosis trained surgeon is how you start. If you decide not to have surgery, ask the surgeon what to do. Shots are usually the next step.

I was lucky that I managed to have my surgeries. I was almost rejected, degeneration made things tricky....I could have found another surgeon, but if one surgeon doesn’t like what he see’s, chances are the next will notice also. I almost had the door slam shut. I would have died.

Surgeons save lives....For a surgeon to say that his past work was a mistake, well, that’s one heck of a statement...

It must be Dr Weiss.

Ed

[Pooka1]

Surgeons save lives....For a surgeon to say that his past work was a mistake, well, that’s one heck of a statement...

It must be Dr Weiss.

Ed

We are chasing it down. There is some indication that it might have been hyperbolic and he was just being wistful that surgery was the only option and that he wishes it wasn't. It has been suggested by someone who knows him well that he was just probably worn down with having to tell kids and their families that they need surgery. I can believe that. But it doesn't then follow you would not have done the only thing that could help those kids. That's where the story jumped the tracks. Asher has nothing better for those kids and it is obvious he would continue surgeries if he wasn't retired. The alternative is unthinkably cruel.

It is totally understandable that the idea of this surgery can send parents around the bend and drive them to irrational conclusions (surgeons are evil... surgeons are stupid, etc. etc.). But it's only the ones who have that luxury of not having a kid who needs surgery. That's no coincidence. Once you have a kid who needs surgery then they come around to reality. Some roads are longer than others.

Sharon

[Pooka1]

It must be Dr Weiss.

Weiss has had at least 30,000 chances to prove PT can avoid surgery. He has so far failed and has basically admitted so in a recent paper. Surgery goes on as ever in Germany and Schroth is still a fringe treatment.

The fact of waiting lists to get into clinics just reflects the desperation of folks to avoid surgery. How many will even respond "some" PT and how many will have the wherewithal to do hours and hours daily as we have seen for the only three ADULTS who seem to have reduced their curve through continuous PT?

The situation with JIS cases prior to the growth spurt CAN'T generally be extrapolated to AIS or adult, the three women in the world who have gone to herculean lengths notwithstanding.

This forum is NOT anti-PT. This forum is pro-reality. Some folks confuse those cases.

[TAMZTOM]

This forum is NOT anti-PT. This forum is pro-reality. Some folks confuse those cases.

It is obvious that many in here are so intent on retrospectively justifying their decisions to have surgery, they feel the need to knock other methods. Knocking other methods doesn't make a chosen method--surgery, exercise, or bracing--any better. I've repeatedly said I respect the courage of those who've had surgery. I am aware that there are teenagers reading these posts and parents of kids with scoliosis; while aware of that, to use toilet bowl scum talk to describe the condition is disgusting, deserving of pity. What was more pitiful was the flurry of sycophantic asswipes who leapt in trying to sanitise the term.

Surgery, IMO, is necessary for many. I hope it improves. Mature behaviour in here will benefit everyone. It will be salutary for everyone to emerge from the toilet bowl and grow-up.

For quite some time in here, posters have departed because of the anonymous, faceless viciousness of some posters. If such terms and ass-wiping continues, there will be no productive exchange, which would be a loss. I have learned reams from positive exchanges in here; I have learned reams from people who've had surgery.

Keep it above the gutter.

[Pooka1]

It is obvious that many in here are so intent on retrospectively justifying their decisions to have surgery, they feel the need to knock other methods.

Tom,

This comment implies they had a choice and chose surgery over not surgery. And then trying to justify it like it somehow needs justification beyond the medical indicators. That is FALSE. It would be cruel to choose not surgery in most of these cases. That is NO choice. Please understand that NOBODY would choose surgery if they really had a choice. That would be insane.

People don't always have a choice. You still have a choice. Your situation is different and canNOT be extrapolated to the great bulk of surgical cases. The problem I see is that you are trying to extrapolate to inapproriate cases. That and publicly implying a respected surgeon is wacky but let's leave that aside for now.

Other methods DO NOT APPLY to the surgical cases as far as anyone can say for sure. So for now they are irrelevant. They are orthogonal.

There is a great divide between parents of surgical cases and parents of non-surgical cases. It is completely a function of whether the child is surgical. I fear that divide is not crossable.

Also, this site is NOT anti-PT though it might seem that way because asking for data is sometimes perceived as being negative. Except for McIntire, we are just a random bunch of lay folks adrift is desert of data.

Last, I am sorry my description of what scoliosis was doing to my daughter bothered you. After seeing how much it bothered you, I wish I had stated it differently. But that's the reality of my daughter's case and that reality bites. I do not believe she would continue to leave the house absent surgery. And that is completely valid if so. Scoliosis can ruin your life even if it doesn't kill you. It's not enough just being alive. Please consider that. You don't have to accept it but please just consider it. I think it might lend insight into how parents can allow surgery on their kids. It's really about salvaging the hope of a future in my opinion.

Sharon