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  1. #1
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    disc surgery

    watched The Doctors today...they showed disc replacement that moves...
    for ONLY disc replacement...no scoli involved...
    the replacement part moves...it has 2 parts that fit together
    and they pivot...so the body can move after the disc replacement
    part is inserted during surgery....this particular patient had
    replacement of a disc in neck....at C5-6 disc

    when will something like this be able to be used for scoli surgery?
    the surgeon...from SF Spine Center...Dr Kenneth Light...
    said it means the body will be mobile, because humans "are
    supposed to be mobile...we are supposed to move and
    the SPINE is supposed to move"
    he mentioned the "old way" of fusing the discs...
    said this new way is better because it preserves movement and
    bending...called old way of fusing "archaic"

    this is not an attack on fusion...thsi is a question about the future
    of scoli surgery...
    it makes so much sense...
    the surgeons tell me the spine wouldn't have enough support
    if rods could bend...but maybe it won't be rods...maybe it will
    be small little rod pieces interspersed with pivot pieces...
    someday...????

    jess
    Last edited by jrnyc; 06-01-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hi Jess...

    Artificial disc replacement has been around for at least 10-15 years. Unfortunately, the results have only been OK, and most insurance companies deny coverage. I have known of 2 people who have had ADR below a scoliosis fusion, and both had drastic results. One ADR, Kineflex-L, is made of all metal, and there was some hope that it might work in conjunction with a scoliosis fusion, but I think that's no longer being discussed.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  3. #3
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    i get that discs with people who have scoli cannot be handled the
    way people without scoli can have surgery....
    i know someone who had this kind of replacement but he does
    not have any other back problems..he did great after the surgery....

    what i am questioning is whether or not someday, there will
    be rods that can bend...as the surgeon said "the spine is meant
    to move and bend..." asking whether the idea of a "bendy" disc
    will someday lead to a "bendy" spine...
    i understand that spinal fusion is now the best scoli patients
    have at this time...every surgeon has told me that bendable
    rods wont support the spine enough...but i am looking into the
    distant future...
    the disc relacement on TV was invented by a German gymnast
    who wanted something that bends...she became an orthopedic
    surgeon, according to Dr Light...makes sense that someone
    who was a gymnast wanted a bendable disc replacement...
    and when looking up ADR, i found all the places note that no patient
    with scoli is a candidate for this procedure...

    jess...& Sparky
    Last edited by jrnyc; 06-01-2012 at 12:09 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    i get that discs with people who have scoli cannot be handled the
    way people without scoli can have surgery....
    i know someone who had this kind of replacement but he does
    not have any other back problems..he did great after the surgery....

    what i am questioning is whether or not someday, there will
    be rods that can bend...as the surgeon said "the spine is meant
    to move and bend..." asking whether the idea of a "bendy" disc
    will someday lead to a "bendy" spine...
    i understand that spinal fusion is now the best scoli patients
    have at this time...every surgeon has told me that bendable
    rods wont support the spine enough...but i am looking into the
    distant future...
    the disc relacement on TV was invented by a German gymnast
    who wanted something that bends...she became an orthopedic
    surgeon, according to Dr Light...makes sense that someone
    who was a gymnast wanted a bendable disc replacement...
    and when looking up ADR, i found all the places note that no patient
    with scoli is a candidate for this procedure...

    jess...& Sparky
    Hi Jess...

    I'm not sure I follow. The ADRs act almost exactly like a normal disc, in that they allow movement of that segment (including bending).
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  5. #5
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    May 2009
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    my question is...
    why can't they....eventually...make something like that...but
    looonngg...for the entire spine...bendy...so the spine could bend
    in several different spots, wherever the ball bearing pivot type
    thingies were placed...many small rods, many small pivot pieces...
    instead of needing full fusion....
    i am envisioning a different future for scoli surgery...that is all...
    not in my lifetime...but i bet something like it will be developed...
    don't know who the guinea pig patients would be...think i would
    volunteer if i was around...i predict new things will be developed...

    guess i am just a little jelaous of those with bad discs who do
    NOT have other back problems, who can have disc replacement
    that does not involve fusion....surgeon called old style replacement
    "somewhat arachaic"
    NOT to insult anyone...but would anyone volunteer for knee replacement
    that fused the whole knee...never to bend it again....???
    just a thought...

    jess

  6. #6
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    Location
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    Sorry, I was confused because I think you're talking about 2 different issues.

    There are plenty of implants in development that might allow for more movement. I think the problem so far has been that anything that allows bending between segments, would be suceptible to the forces of bending the wrong way in people with scoliosis.

    I get the jealousy thing. It truly sucks to have scoliosis, as there really is no treatment that will make us anywhere near normal. I try not to dwell on it, as dreaming about a normal spine is fruitless.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    San Francicsco Bay Area
    Posts
    127

    Artifical Discs

    Linda:

    Can you please elaborate about the two people you know who had the "drastic results" from artificial disc replacement below their scoliosis fusions? Thank you!



    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Hi Jess...

    Artificial disc replacement has been around for at least 10-15 years. Unfortunately, the results have only been OK, and most insurance companies deny coverage. I have known of 2 people who have had ADR below a scoliosis fusion, and both had drastic results. One ADR, Kineflex-L, is made of all metal, and there was some hope that it might work in conjunction with a scoliosis fusion, but I think that's no longer being discussed.

    --Linda

  8. #8
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    Location
    Northern California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tableone View Post
    Linda:

    Can you please elaborate about the two people you know who had the "drastic results" from artificial disc replacement below their scoliosis fusions? Thank you!
    Sorry, but it's been far too many years since I heard about them. I can tell you that I'm relatively certain that I heard about them on the old MIT list (the predecessor to this forum). If you do a search on something like MIT scoliosis artificial disc, you might find them.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    watched The Doctors today...they showed disc replacement that moves...
    for ONLY disc replacement...no scoli involved...
    the replacement part moves...it has 2 parts that fit together
    and they pivot...so the body can move after the disc replacement
    part is inserted during surgery....this particular patient had
    replacement of a disc in neck....at C5-6 disc

    when will something like this be able to be used for scoli surgery?
    the surgeon...from SF Spine Center...Dr Kenneth Light...
    said it means the body will be mobile, because humans "are
    supposed to be mobile...we are supposed to move and
    the SPINE is supposed to move"
    he mentioned the "old way" of fusing the discs...
    said this new way is better because it preserves movement and
    bending...called old way of fusing "archaic"

    this is not an attack on fusion...thsi is a question about the future
    of scoli surgery...
    it makes so much sense...
    the surgeons tell me the spine wouldn't have enough support
    if rods could bend...but maybe it won't be rods...maybe it will
    be small little rod pieces interspersed with pivot pieces...
    someday...????

    jess

    That solution is coming even is disk still not move, i post about that in another subject and will put it here too

    Look at aurora spine http://www.auroraspine.us/

    This is what i call clever fusion with strong derotation, for information , aurora spine patent -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130296940

    in those pic we can see it is planned for multiple vertebras which can only concern scoliosis :

    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_12
    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_06
    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_05

    Aurora spine is new startup (2 years old only)

    For me it is obvious that this new way to fuse (without screw) is really nice
    Also derotation will be full because as you can see they use the back of the vertebra to do it.

    But with this device the disc are also removed an replaced by atificial disks that will fuse in a clean way -> that one http://www.auroraspine.us/affinity.php
    ------------------------------
    39 years old
    Large C shape thoracic scoliosis 40 right side
    Had a brace during childhood
    At 20 years old my scoliosis ended 30
    New innovative static brace since nov 2016 with 40-50% correction inbrace
    Waiting to get in 2017 the first dynamic brace that will be corrective.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,802
    Quote Originally Posted by edouard View Post
    That solution is coming even is disk still not move, i post about that in another subject and will put it here too

    Look at aurora spine http://www.auroraspine.us/

    This is what i call clever fusion with strong derotation, for information , aurora spine patent -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130296940

    in those pic we can see it is planned for multiple vertebras which can only concern scoliosis :

    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_12
    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_06
    -> http://www.faqs.org/patents/imgfull/20130296940_05

    Aurora spine is new startup (2 years old only)

    For me it is obvious that this new way to fuse (without screw) is really nice
    Also derotation will be full because as you can see they use the back of the vertebra to do it.

    But with this device the disc are also removed an replaced by atificial disks that will fuse in a clean way -> that one http://www.auroraspine.us/affinity.php
    I'm not an engineer, so it's impossible for me to know the answer, but I suspect they'll find that these implants break when used in deformity patients.

    I'm not clear what you mean by "in those pic we can see it is planned for multiple vertebras which can only concern scoliosis", but multi-level fusions are done for lots of things besides scoliosis.
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    11
    Right multiple vertebras fusion is not limited to scoliosis but can concern also scoliosis.

    For breaking i don't think as they fuse also the disc strongly with artificial disks + put the implant device at the back of vertebras, the only constraint i think (but not sure it is my feeling believe) is that to use such solution the spine must be really straight first (may be to 10 minimum) if not difficult to use artificial disk so in severe scoliosis may be impossible to be used, in my case may be but not sure too as I am borderline in term of curvature.

    I contacted aurora, they will send me brochures as i see my surgeon next week i will ask him about that, also for magec that i contacted too.

    But the purpose of my visit is to know if i have to compensate first my leg difference and if i can have a brace once compensated that can correct a minimum my curve as i believe in my case the scoliosis comes from my leg difference.

    For surgery i plan to do it later but i am not really attracted (having choice now to wait may be not the case in few years ) in having lot of screws, the fact to straight the spine in few minuts and current fusion that's why i am trying to look for another kind of surgery already now with same purpose correcting the curve and stabilise it with fusion as i believe that non fusion solution may be will come in 10 years not before (with the coming of new materials, not titanium i think)
    Last edited by edouard; 07-25-2015 at 05:34 AM.
    ------------------------------
    39 years old
    Large C shape thoracic scoliosis 40 right side
    Had a brace during childhood
    At 20 years old my scoliosis ended 30
    New innovative static brace since nov 2016 with 40-50% correction inbrace
    Waiting to get in 2017 the first dynamic brace that will be corrective.

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