60 degree thoracic scoliosis and pain free

[figgy]

Do you have a long curve with almost no rotation?

Have they confirmed your curve is structural?

The curve is definately structural, the rib hump is significant. its actually quite a short curve, from what I recall something like T3-T7. And the rotation was
quite large, like i said before, to the point where my lower left ribs were touching my hip bones. now, although the rotation is alot less significant (or seems that way to me) it is still noticable from the front.

[Pooka1]

The curve is definately structural, the rib hump is significant. its actually quite a short curve, from what I recall something like T3-T7. And the rotation was
quite large, like i said before, to the point where my lower left ribs were touching my hip bones. now, although the rotation is alot less significant (or seems that way to me) it is still noticable from the front.

Okay that's pretty interesting.

Can I ask you what you think happened during a light massage that helped you? Do you think they actually moved your vertebra? Or did they just work with fascia and muscles? Do you have before and after radiographs?

[figgy]

Hi Figgy
Thanks for the information. My 10 yr old has scoliosis, exercising since diagnosis has improved the condition.
Details on my daughter here: http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...race-mentality
We had one month of intensive Schroth last July; during the last half hour every day, she had a light massage, so light, she'd fall asleep. Every day! Loved it.
I've never heard of Bowen before but will look it up today. Martha Hawes also promotes the use of massage and other manipulative techniques--she corrected her curves as an adult.
Interesting that you have observed a significant improvement in your rotation. Do you have numbers on the improvement? It'll also be interesting to hear if that has had an effect on your curvature; releasing tension that caused rotation COULD result in lasting curve correction. Simple mechanics. I don't know why others are denying this possibility; seems obvious to me. E.g., Forest Gump took off his calipers and RAN.
Regards
Tom

I looked at your thread. Saw that you are from Wales, I am Northern Irish and I suspect that we may have had similar exasperating experiences when it comes to dealing with the NHS. (which I won't go into now -rant territory!) I now live in Australia and the differences in attitude towards scoliosis and different kinds of therapies is astounding. I think with Bowen, the key is to finding a really good, experienced knowledgeable therapist. I lucked out, and I was so inspired by my therapist (because he changed my life in an hour) that I am now studying remedial massage and I intend to study Bowen after I qualify. I wont know if my curve has actually improved until i go back home in december but regardless of the numbers I am pain-free, more positive and optimistic and motivated. Good luck to Tamzin

[figgy]

Okay that's pretty interesting.

Can I ask you what you think happened during a light massage that helped you? Do you think they actually moved your vertebra? Or did they just work with fascia and muscles? Do you have before and after radiographs?

Its connective tissue work - so just dealing with fascia. It feels quite bizarre at first - he pulls the fascia in a certain direction and then stops for 2 minutes and so on and so forth. I admit, that when I was getting it done I was quite disappointed, I like to feel during a massage the direct results. And for about 10 days after the therapy I was quite achy in between my shoulder blades and I was thinking "What have I done??" But after that I was standing in work, and usually if I started at 8am, the pain would usually kick in at around 9 or 10, and it was 3pm and it suddenly struck me that it was completely gone. And it has been ever since. I dont have my x ray. (I only have had one) hopefully I can get another one when I return to Northern Ireland in december.

[Pooka1]

Its connective tissue work - so just dealing with fascia. It feels quite bizarre at first - he pulls the fascia in a certain direction and then stops for 2 minutes and so on and so forth. I admit, that when I was getting it done I was quite disappointed, I like to feel during a massage the direct results. And for about 10 days after the therapy I was quite achy in between my shoulder blades and I was thinking "What have I done??" But after that I was standing in work, and usually if I started at 8am, the pain would usually kick in at around 9 or 10, and it was 3pm and it suddenly struck me that it was completely gone. And it has been ever since. I dont have my x ray. (I only have had one) hopefully I can get another one when I return to Northern Ireland in december.

This description reminds me of what happens when the vet does chiro on my horse except it is instant relief in his case. What must be happening with my horse, and what I am guessing is happening to you is that there was a nerve that gets impinged when your muscles tire. Somehow the pulling frees the nerve from impingement. On my horse, where there was a clear and patent pain response, there was none immediately after the vet did the movement. I call it voodoo chiro but it must be freeing a nerve or otherwise blocking a pain response.

I looked at your photos and the second one does look like a high and tight T curve. We have someone here with a similar curve. Maybe she has something to add. She has chronic pain. Maybe she should try this.

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for posting.

[TAMZTOM]

...similar exasperating experiences when it comes to dealing with the NHS.

Yeah, from day one! We've been private and NHS, similar incompetence and negligence. Hey, we both sucked it up and did our own thing. Nice one. (PS: I live in Wales, grew up in Scotland...across the water from you.)

I am now studying remedial massage and I intend to study Bowen after I qualify. I wont know if my curve has actually improved until i go back home in december but regardless of the numbers I am pain-free, more positive and optimistic and motivated. Good luck to Tamzin

Excellent. Inspiring. We haven't stopped researching and working with Tamzin for almost 11 months now, but the one thing I haven't continued or even properly researched is massage (deep, light, anything...). I'll get there. (My wife and I have been doing our own 'massage', pretty much dictated by what Tamzin tells us to do.) On this front, we need help.

Very pleased for you. Saw your photo, amazing...60 degree curve! No sweat. Keep it up.

[TAMZTOM]

...how he would manipulate the fascia surrounding my muscles to encourage them to loosen and strengthen.

I asked questions repeatedly (months ago) on a few threads about how to manipulate the thoracolumbar fascia (lower right lumbar concavity), but the Q fell on deaf ears. Crucial. We've succeed in 'growing' the attached muscles and have achieved significant restoration of the T-fascia, but still much work to be done. I read a while back about how deep tissue massage and other manipulative techniques can assist.
You are the FIRST other poster I've heard even mention "fascia". Feed us information!

Cheers
Tom

[Pooka1]

I asked questions repeatedly (months ago) on a few threads about how to manipulate the thoracolumbar fascia (lower right lumbar concavity), but the Q fell on deaf ears. Crucial. We've succeed in 'growing' the attached muscles and have achieved significant restoration of the T-fascia, but still much work to be done. I read a while back about how deep tissue massage and other manipulative techniques can assist.
You are the FIRST other poster I've heard even mention "fascia". Feed us information!

Cheers
Tom

Tom,

The other bunnies and I want you to know we don't know a damn thing about fascia. Otherwise we would have responded. :-)

Love,
Hortense Q. Quackenbush
Member-At-Large
Forest Bracing Society

[figgy]

I asked questions repeatedly (months ago) on a few threads about how to manipulate the thoracolumbar fascia (lower right lumbar concavity), but the Q fell on deaf ears. Crucial. We've succeed in 'growing' the attached muscles and have achieved significant restoration of the T-fascia, but still much work to be done. I read a while back about how deep tissue massage and other manipulative techniques can assist.
You are the FIRST other poster I've heard even mention "fascia". Feed us information!

Cheers
Tom

Bowen is a form of myofascial release. so in my case the therapist would pull gently on my left side to encourage the derotation and then stop for 2 minutes.
I'm still learning a lot myself (I just started my diploma last week!), but I do know that over here you can easily take a weekend course in the basics of bowen therapy. I suspect the UK may not be as progressive, but you might find something, or you might find a therapist willing to take you through what exactly he is doing. The nature of it means that is is very precise so I think you would definately need to be shown hands on how to do it. I hope you find something and give it a go. And of course if you do, let me know how it goes!

[TAMZTOM]

Bowen is a form of myofascial release. so in my case the therapist would pull gently on my left side to encourage the derotation and then stop for 2 minutes.
I'm still learning a lot myself (I just started my diploma last week!), but I do know that over here you can easily take a weekend course in the basics of bowen therapy. I suspect the UK may not be as progressive, but you might find something, or you might find a therapist willing to take you through what exactly he is doing. The nature of it means that is is very precise so I think you would definately need to be shown hands on how to do it. I hope you find something and give it a go. And of course if you do, let me know how it goes!

Definitely will keep you updated, Figgy.
E.g., am currently in contact with a mother and daughter 'team' in Germany who are testing the waters with different types of massage and manipulation.
Probably contrary to opinion, I'm ultra cautious about anything we do with Tamzin. With massage (it's a lot more than what's commonly understood by "massage"), I've seen the incredible benefits top athletes get with swift treatment. I'm not surprised at all that you felt lasting improvement after one treatment.
I feel remiss for not having researched this area thoroughly...being saturated with my daughter's triple condition is no excuse.
In the last 3 months, we've 'fed' specific Pilates and ballet into her routines and are also adding many of the Schroth mobilization exercises (can be thought of a massage type manipulation without the massage, i.e., move your body into a position that'll lighten the load on the overloaded muscles, tendons, ligaments, bones...in your case, you lower ribs and hip).

Tom

[flerc]

Figgi, are you sure you really had 60°? Do you have the x-ray? It would not be the first time a surgeon does a bad measurement and the photo doesn't seem for me to be more than 40°. It would be really very important for me to be sure about that, since it would be the first case similar to my daughter I have heard up to now, so I'll really appreciate very much if you can confirm me that.

Thanks in advance!

[figgy]

Figgi, are you sure you really had 60°? Do you have the x-ray? It would not be the first time a surgeon does a bad measurement and the photo doesn't seem for me to be more than 40°. It would be really very important for me to be sure about that, since it would be the first case similar to my daughter I have heard up to now, so I'll really appreciate very much if you can confirm me that.

Thanks in advance!

Hey, yeah 2 orthopedic surgeons identified the curve as between 55 and 60, but on my medical records it is stated as 60. Again i dont have the x-ray myself, the NHS in Northern Ireland don't issue the x-rays to the patients.

[TAMZTOM]

Hey, yeah 2 orthopedic surgeons identified the curve as between 55 and 60, but on my medical records it is stated as 60. Again i dont have the x-ray myself, the NHS in Northern Ireland don't issue the x-rays to the patients.

You can demand them, Figgy. It'll cost you a tenner.

[flerc]

Figgi, is really unusual for me to know about another teenage with a so great curve.. well, it seems that you have less degrees now. I’m absolutely sure that massages are really very important.
Yes you should to demand them to give you your x-ray.. at least in a digital way. They might do that by email. I believe is important to have all the x-rays.

Thanks for share your case with us!.

[Pooka1]

Fer,

Figgy said she was 23.

And she is claiming the light massage took away her pain. She is not claiming it reduced her curve. That would be an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary proof. Also, she has no radiograph from after the light massage as far as I know so she can't claim it reduced the curve.

It is probably physically impossible for one light massage to reduce a structural curve.