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Thread: Why a 26* curve plus trunk shift can be so painful

  1. #16
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    As I know, all people with major scoliosis does a regular control of the curve.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Roher, as I said you once, a way (and probably the only one) to be sure that your pain is because your curve, is reducing it for a while. Are you sure that it's not significatly reduced when you are lying down?
    Sorry, I missed this one. Night time is horrific for me. Laying down is much worse than standing up for most of my pain. If I lay flat on my back, my chest hurts and my lower back hurts, if I lay on either side I am squishing a rib hump or pushing in ribs that are already concave. This hurts so much that I wake up crying at times. I have a poster bed, so I have to use the post as a handhold just to roll over. I also have a hospital type bed. When I am in this bed my lower back hurts as well but it gives me some relief from the upper back pressure. So some nights (most nights) I go from one bed to the other at least once or twice, sometimes more.

    My curves are very stiff because of where they are. I'm supposing that I don't get that much correction lying down. So I really don't know how to answer your question. It just may be my life and I must get used to it. Possibley a surgery wouldn't relieve my pain. My neurosurgeon thinks yes and the surgeon thinks no. So I am tired all of the time from lack of sleep.

    About your friend getting the x-ray, I didn't see the part that they had significant scoliosis and was having it monitored. I assume it was a new doctor that saw them. Otherwise, why would they make that statement?

    Have a good day.
    Rohrer01

  3. #18
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    Roher, I'll reply in different posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    About your friend getting the x-ray, I didn't see the part that they had significant scoliosis and was having it monitored. I assume it was a new doctor that saw them. Otherwise, why would they make that statement?
    Rohrer01
    I don't understad.. more significant, more need of controls..but yes, specially one I don't know how many may doctors she might seen in all those decades. Even I know someone (less age and degrees) that decide to saw many of the most important surgeons of her country before taking surgery (she had it) and said that all of them believed that she should to suffer much pain.

    good day for you too.

  4. #19
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    Roher, may you describe me your curve. I think I have seen many strange curves of different kinds. Some days ago I saw one of 50ļ (I meassured it) that seems to be not more than 25ļ. It not belongs to Lenke clasiffication?
    Last edited by flerc; 02-06-2012 at 10:25 PM.

  5. #20
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    I'm going to try to copy the images here:

    2005 radiograph.jpg This is from 2005.
    I0000001.DCM2011_001_.jpg
    2010 radiograph.jpg

    Sorry, they are out of order. When I switched the order of the films and "saved", it switched them right back to the wrong order. The second image if from early 2011 and the third image is from early 2010.

    I'm due to see the scoli surgeon for my two year follow up and will get this years x-ray sometime within the next couple of months. I haven't made any appts for that, yet. You can not the progression even in the one year (2010 and 2011) films. I don't expect any miracles this time. The funny thing is, I'm not shrinking. I seem to be growing or at best staying the same height. I don't understand how this can happen with progression. The other attached image shows my total lack of thoracic kyphosis.

    Sincerely,
    Rohrer01
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by rohrer01; 02-06-2012 at 11:49 PM.

  6. #21
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    I got tired of editing that last post. I wanted to point out that if you look at where the spinous processes are, you can see that I have developed quite a bit of rotation that carries all the way down into the lower lumbar. This wasn't present in the lumbar at all in the 2010 films. In the 2010 film you can see that the spinous processes are much more centered. That's why I think I should go ahead and follow up with the surgeon as directed to do initially. I don't know what this year's x-rays will show...

    Rohrer01

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Roher, may you describe me your curve. I think I have seen many strange curves of different kinds. Some days ago I saw one of 50ļ (I meassured it) that seems to be not more than 25ļ. It not belongs to Lenke clasiffication?
    I feel that the King classification best describes my curves from the start. It is a King class 5. I started with a single, upper LEFT thoracic curve which seems to be morphing into something bigger. As per my last scoli surgeon visit, it is now considered a double major, I'm assuming because the compensatory curve is similar in size to the original upper curve.

    Who measured the curve at 50* and who measured it at 25* in this person you are talking about?
    Last edited by rohrer01; 02-07-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  8. #23
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    Roher, the only way you may growth is having a bigger reduction of a curve in the sagittal plane.. or more arched feet, more decompressed discs or a more centered line (plumbing test)
    Anyway seems to be so few degrees of difference. It may be calculated the difference in height but I would say that cannot be significant. Iím not sure if plumbing test is measured form head to pelvis or from the beginning to the end of the curve. Iím not sure because I cannot see the image with enough dedication now, but I believe that plumbing test might to show a greater difference in the alligment since 2005..may be not so much significant or may need a correction.
    About the compensatory curve.. it seems to be out of the physics explanation, at least refereed with gravity force. An insignificant curve, that cannot be receiving a significant lateral gravity force, begging to growth in an adult. The only one explanation I have heard is that the body Ďbelieveí that is the best way to compensate the curve. How may does the body that?

    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    Who measured the curve at 50* and who measured it at 25* in this person you are talking about?
    No, I measured it, but it looks as so much insignificant curve.. even around 20į, but a vertebra was so much titled.
    Also your curve seem to not have many degrees, I cannot measure it now and of course the margin error is greater in a pic, although I have a soft edition to do that.

  9. #24
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    You don't have to measure my curves, as my surgeon has been quite accurate in doing so. I only posted them here because you said you hadn't seen them and couldn't visualize what I was talking about. I have them posted on another thread. Maybe we have gotten off the original topic, I don't know.

    Take Care,
    Rohrer01

  10. #25
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    No Roher01, of course I donít have to measure your curves, Iím extremely far to be in conditions to give a diagnosis or something like that, it was never the idea obviously. Anyway I recommend you to measure your curves by yourself. Itís only a geometric matter and a surgeon has not any reason to be available to do it in a better way than you or anyone having an elemental idea of geometry. As your height, you may measure by yourself.
    I believe that the topic (at least one) is to understand why you are in pain and we may say that degrees may be considered a factor. Itís true that is not a frequent kind of curve but it is not a reason by itself for pain. If someone says you that necessarily a spine with that curve should to pain, he should to explain you why. I supposes that if there is a clear reason, it should to be reflected in a MRI. I donít remember if you did one.

  11. #26
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    I get bone pain nerve pain, and severe muscle spasms. It's amazing how muscles can hurt. If I wasn't shy about posting a picture of how my back looks, you would see how the muscles look weird and my scapulae overlap my actual spine during some movements. I think the pain has to do with the upper body and shoulder girdle mechanics. The neck coming out of the shoulder girdle at an angle puts a lot of undue strain on the muscles and nerves running through that messy area which leads to radicular pain in my left arm. So you can attribute it to muscles or whatever, but the fact remains that absent the curve, I wouldn't have these muscle problems. You can tell from the three x-rays that the scoliosis changes. These changes aren't for the better even though they make me stand straighter. So for appearance sake, I look better, but for pain levels it gets worse. Also, the lack of curvature in my upper spine saggital plane clearly also puts pressure on my neck. So my poor neck is getting a double whammy. That's how I see it anyway. These odd curves don't present with normal symptoms as far as I'm concerned.

    Thanks for being interested.
    Rohrer01

  12. #27
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    I wanted to add that I think that the rotation has an effect on what I'm feeling as bone pain. Also, if you look at L3 in the lastes film, you can see that it has a tilt on the bottom that wasn't there before. It concerns me a little, not a whole lot. I just don't want to develop a triple curve is all, but I'm a LONG way from that and probably wouldn't live long enough for that to develop. I am a little concerned that "when" fusion becomes something that the doctor's feel is needed, then I'm afraid I'll end up being fused all the way from T1 to sacrum. I'm walking and trying to do what I can to stop it, but it seems once it starts progressing, even in adults, it becomes almost like a runaway train.

    Also, if you were to hang a plumb line from my nose, my belly button would be at least an inch (2.5 cm) off center. My shoulders don't sit directly above my feet which makes my balance a little wacky.


    Rohrer01

  13. #28
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    Roher01, I believe that what is really very unusual is that the curve in that upper zone has not any compensation (2005). It seems that the body was trying to change that condition. How may it do it, is a mystery for me. What you mentioned about your scapulas, is not new for me, I posted about that and about the collapsed pneumatic skeleton as ABR people named it (something like the content of the trunk). They says that this is the scoliosis cause.. it cannot sustain the curve, they says to have a method to reverse that condition.
    But regardless how much unusual or not is your curve and what may be the cause, I believe that what you says about the plumbing test is really a problem with a clear mechanical explanation and I have heard from different professionals that the lack of curvature in the upper spine saggital plane is really a very big problem, I donít know if surgery may solve it. I believe that this is the first you should to ask about that kind of solution. I understand you are worry about that after surgery you may have all your spine fixed, but I know about surgeons that depending on the kind of curve (probably only a S shape) they donít do that in all the spine. You should to contact livingtwisted. Iíll continue..

  14. #29
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    That curve in the 2005 film had pretty much been the same for about 20 years and then BAM! Things started to change. Although, there was a small compensatory curve in 2005, it was even smaller when I was a teen. They said, if my memory serves me correctly, that I had a C-curve. Now I have a double major S-curve. Bummer. It's really the rotation that has me mostly concerned as I can feel my body twisting. When I try to stand straight, it causes PAIN in my lower lumbar. So I don't do it. That's probably why I have so much trouble sleeping. You seem to twist and turn in your sleep. I wake up with horrible lumbar pain. I'm not in any hurry to get any more lumbar epidurals, though, as the pain is minimal during the day, usually. It's been a year since my last epidural, so it stands to reason that it's wearing off. I'm going to wait until it gets much worse before I do that again. I'm thinking, as I mentioned before, about going back to the spine surgeon just to get his take on things. I'm not in a frame of mind where I want to jump into a spine surgery, though. I go back and forth on that. It's just very scary.

  15. #30
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    Not all are disvantajes in C curves, though one is the displacement of the gravity force.. anyway, even a perfect S curve should to provoke some displacement because low vertebras has more weight..
    I doubt that a surgeon may say you something useful if you are not decided to surgery, except you want more information with other studies as an Mri.. in this case I would visit rheumatologist.
    Roher01, I donít believe you have a double major S-curve. What name we should give to some curves I have seen.. you might faint if you look the x-rays.
    Iím not saying I not agree that without curve, would not exists such pain in your case, but I believe that other condition is allowing the curve to provoque pain.. maybe Iím talking more from an intuitive than logic level, but I believe that you need a great desintoxication, relaxing and increment of your energy level. Maybe I think that because last days I was reading so much about how our bodies are contaminated in a way as never before and how strange things may happen, how some destructive vicious cycles occurs.. is to extent.. I should to open a thread apart.
    Then Iíll try to turn the spine more flexible (if it is really stiff) and also other things may be intended as centering the plumbing line.. surely Joshua (Toscoliosis) may give you good recomendations in that sense.

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