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Thread: The Dynamic Remodeling method (DR method)

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    The Dynamic Remodeling method (DR method)

    http://www.orthopectus.net/index.php...&id=3&Itemid=4
    01. How does this procedure work? We have always been told that the position of the ribcage can not be altered non surgically, because pectus is a combination of excess bone and cartilage infused in a solid state.

    Nicolas Andry, the man considered the "Father of Orthopaedics," in his book L’orthopédie ou l’art de prev’enir et de corriger dans les enfants, les difformités du corps, published in Paris in 1741, observed that limb deformities could be corrected through conservative methods of treatment. Later, Julius Wolff described what is accepted as a law in Orthopaedics: "The bone tissue is a dynamic structure that can be remodeled according to external forces." What we have been doing is using these concepts to correct pectus deformities. Despite being solid, bone and cartilage are live substances that have the capacity of remodeling. The younger the patient the greater is his/her potential for osteocartilaginous remodeling, but such a remodeling occurs throughout life.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2532136/

    If it works with pectus deformities.. why not with spine deformities too?..http://www.orthopectus.net/index.php...:faq-&Itemid=4

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    Flerc, I looked at the site you posted. If you look at the symmetry of the body in the shoulders, scapulae, and arms, there doesn't seem to be much difference before and after. I don't know that I would trust the spine measurements either. If you look at the pictures of the "after" you can still see the marks in the skin where the brace had been. So these x-rays and photos were taken right out of brace. CLEAR people do the same thing with their x-rays (x-rays taken right after treatment). I would be more convinced if these were taken a year or more after of treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    Flerc, I looked at the site you posted. If you look at the symmetry of the body in the shoulders, scapulae, and arms, there doesn't seem to be much difference before and after. I don't know that I would trust the spine measurements either. If you look at the pictures of the "after" you can still see the marks in the skin where the brace had been. So these x-rays and photos were taken right out of brace. CLEAR people do the same thing with their x-rays (x-rays taken right after treatment). I would be more convinced if these were taken a year or more after of treatment.
    Yes Roher, surely as occurs with other methods is not sufficiently, but anyway it seems interesting that professionals that seems to be able to do a pectum remodelation (supposedly impossible without surgery) are trying to remodeling the spine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Yes Roher, surely as occurs with other methods is not sufficiently, but anyway it seems interesting that professionals that seems to be able to do a pectum remodelation (supposedly impossible without surgery) are trying to remodeling the spine.
    Roher, what I means is that I believe that probably they are able to attack some of the current causes ignored (or only trying to correct it in an indirect way) by much others methods. Bone remodeling is assumed as something impossible, so if it would be the only current cause of the curve, it would not be possible to correct it, but it seems to be a multicausal problem, so probably correcting the (some or all) other causes, the problem may be solved anyway. This is what seems to assume many methods focused in some primary causes as muscles, ligaments, tendons, fascias, dics… and other focused in secondary causes as propioception, posture, habits, energy..
    If DR really can remodel rib cages/vertebras and it would be combined with the best method to improve ligaments, the best to improve muscles, the best to improve tendons.. energy.. Who knows what may happen..

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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Roher, what I means is that I believe that probably they are able to attack some of the current causes ignored (or only trying to correct it in an indirect way) by much others methods. Bone remodeling is assumed as something impossible, so if it would be the only current cause of the curve, it would not be possible to correct it, but it seems to be a multicausal problem, so probably correcting the (some or all) other causes, the problem may be solved anyway. This is what seems to assume many methods focused in some primary causes as muscles, ligaments, tendons, fascias, dics… and other focused in secondary causes as propioception, posture, habits, energy..
    If DR really can remodel rib cages/vertebras and it would be combined with the best method to improve ligaments, the best to improve muscles, the best to improve tendons.. energy.. Who knows what may happen..
    For the first point in bold: They do bone remodelling in orthodontia all of the time. They put an appliance in my daughter's mouth that actually changed the way her facial bones grew and made her upper and lower jaws larger. So that isn't something that would be so far fetched. This had to be done at a very young age to work. She was seven when she got her appliance and wore it for two years.

    The second point in bold: If this is the case, I would only expect to see good results in JIS cases. Yes, adult bones do continue to grow as they are also broken down. But this happens at a MUCH slower rate. Eventually, the remodelling fails and we end up with degenerative diseases of the bones. So it might be a promising treatment for very young children and maybe "young" teenagers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    For the first point in bold: They do bone remodelling in orthodontia all of the time. They put an appliance in my daughter's mouth that actually changed the way her facial bones grew and made her upper and lower jaws larger. So that isn't something that would be so far fetched. This had to be done at a very young age to work. She was seven when she got her appliance and wore it for two years.

    The second point in bold: If this is the case, I would only expect to see good results in JIS cases. Yes, adult bones do continue to grow as they are also broken down. But this happens at a MUCH slower rate. Eventually, the remodelling fails and we end up with degenerative diseases of the bones. So it might be a promising treatment for very young children and maybe "young" teenagers.
    I'm not sure if I'm following you. I believe that when grow is finished, what not grow any more are bones. But it not imply that shape cannot change any more. I interpret that these professionals are talking about a change of shape (remodeling) even after growth. As they said, of course it must to be more easy to do during growth. The explanation I suppose should to be that during growth the bone is changing, probably tending to keep the same shape but changing anyway, but then, something must to ocurr to provoke a change, but of course, it could not be impossible to do.
    It would be great that scientist find the way to reactivate the pituitary gland and growth begins again. Not only it could be redirected, remodeling bones would be more easy.

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    Scientists can reacitvate growth by giving growth hormones. That isn't a good thing in adults, usually. We don't want to get bigger. The thing about remodelling is that we are constantly growing. That is a necessary component of life. As our old cells die off, new ones grow to replace them, even in the bones. We actually live in a "new" body every so many years (don't remember the number). But in adults the process is much slower, so would likely not work as well. They would have to undergo treatment for life, and that is no quality of life. it was a good find and will be interesting to see long term outcomes. But right now it doesn't look like they have that, yet.

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    Now I understand you, what happened is that instead of saying that we are in a constant growing I would say that we are in a constant replacement. I have heard many years ago that after 7 years we have a new body. For me, growth means an increment of volume, but almost exclusively in the vertical direction. Just today I decide to stop my lateral growth and mass increment.. I’m ‘growing’ but not in a good way.

    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    Scientists can reacitvate growth by giving growth hormones. That isn't a good thing in adults, usually. We don't want to get bigger.
    It might be true but only for tall or very tall people. I was very worried until some years ago because I saw my sons were not enough tall as it was supposed that they should to be. Certainly I was worried for my son, because in a man is a bigger problem than in a women.. at least in my country.. a doctor some years ago said me that would have not sense hormonal treatments because his growth cartilages were closed, so he could not growth any more.. something that really bother me to much. Is supposed that sons are tallest than fathers, but in our case is significantly different. Are you sure that scientists can reacitvate growth by giving growth hormones? He is now close to 21, the ultimate age limit for men as doctors says.

    If my daughter could growth in a significant way, then a brace could have much more chances to work. She never used one. The curve is only decreasing 3 centimeters her height and she might growth really many centimeters more and would not be looked as a very tall girl.
    It would be a great alternative but I supposed that if would be possible to reacitvate growth, thousand of millions of people in all the world would trying it and I have never heard about just only one case. Any way I’m interesting in what you may say me about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    But in adults the process is much slower, so would likely not work as well. They would have to undergo treatment for life, and that is no quality of life. it was a good find and will be interesting to see long term outcomes. But right now it doesn't look like they have that, yet.
    Probably it depends on the kind of treatment. Something as Yoga not should to be necessarily tortuous for no one.
    If they are having successes in remodeling pectums of boys of 20 years old, it seems to be really promising.. I believe that if they not find what is not allowing the spine to remains alligned, bone remodeling would be insufficient.

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    As for the growth hormones, I'm not quite sure what they can do. I know that giantism is caused sometimes by a tumor on the pituitary gland in the middle of the brain. So, I don't really know what growth hormones would do for someone who is "done" growing.

    There are plenty of short men in the world. I understand culture. Here in the U.S. men are "usually" supposed to be taller than women. But I know plenty of couples where the woman is MUCH taller than her husband. It doesn't matter to me, as long as they love each other. My husband is much older than I am and is shrinking from arthritis. He is not nearly as much taller than me as he was when I married him. He's almost my height, and if I have surgery, I will for sure be taller than him. But I won't love him any less. It could be that your children just inherited a shorter stature. If it is that important to them, they can always date and marry even shorter women. ;-)

    As for your daughter, isn't she getting older now? I would think the older she gets, the less options she may have that don't include surgery. It's too bad that they didn't have VBS when she was younger. I know that it is surgery, but SO much less invasive. I don't know about this technique that you are talking about, really. If you can afford it, and your daughter is willing to try it, why not, unless there are risks involved. You always have to weigh the risks with the benefits. What does SHE want to do?

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    Yes, certainly he is not worry about his height, he is thin and probably in the limit between a short and a tall men. In my country is difficult to see a couple with a woman taller than the man, but anyway there are many girls shorter than him. Anyway is frustrating for me, my father was significantly taller than me (is alive but now I'm taller) and I'm taller than my son.. my wife (as my daughter) is short (although her mother was very tall) but her sister is not significantly taller, married with someone something taller than me and her son is a gigant.

    It would be great reactivate the growth.. not only my daughter but many adults might have a great chance to reduce the curve. When we were noticed about her scoliosis, it was to late acordingly the medical standard protocols for brace, VBS, Spinecor, Fed and EDF.

    I don't know more about DR than what I read in the net, it not exists in my country and certainly is only one more of the many hundreds of methods I know, but I have not enough knowledge to know which combination would be the best for her and the alternatives seems to be be hundreds of thousands.. anyway if I might choose something existing in my country, I'll choose Qui Gong, but I can´t. I insisted her to assists to a class last year and then she don't want to hear me never more about scoliosis methods. She love to dance and Qui Gong seemed to her unbearably boring.
    Ending teenager, not only growth is finished, also the chance to force them to do what they don't want.
    Last edited by flerc; 01-21-2012 at 12:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I insisted her to assists to a class last year and then she don't want to hear me never more about scoliosis methods. She love to dance and Qui Gong seemed to her unbearably boring.
    Ending teenager, not only growth is finished, also the chance to force them to do what they don't want.
    Yes, I know the feeling. My daughter won't even go to a scoliosis doctor to find out how bad hers is. I know it is still mild because she doesn't have any noticeable rib hump. But I can still feel where her spine is crooked. I don't remember what her x-ray looked like, but when I look at her it looks like her worst curve is a right thoracic with an upper left thoracic compensatory. Mine is the upper left curve with a lower right thoracic compensatory. So similar patterns, except hers would probably be classified as the standard "right thoracic" curve rather than a left curve.

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    Sometimes to 'ignore' a problem may be the best, who knows? Science seems to begin to understand the damage that a concious of a disease may provoke. My father said me yesterday that he was diagnosed with cancer 7 years ago and he decided to ignore the issue. He is fine and seems to be 25 years younger than others of his same age.
    Surely if we might see the medicine of the future we would realize that much of what we believe to be the best that we can now do is only a belief.. anyway as parents we want to force them to do what we think is the more reasonable but I believe that we must to trust in their good judgment. We only should to insists, if the insistence not provoke a damage and we are absolutely sure about what is the best.. something really difficult and not only in something so complex as scoliosis is.

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    Anyway I would try to measure the x-ray and if there are not few degrees and she is still growing, I'll try to convince her in a soft and subtle way to do something.. nothing simple to do but I would try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Sometimes to 'ignore' a problem may be the best, who knows? Science seems to begin to understand the damage that a concious of a disease may provoke. My father said me yesterday that he was diagnosed with cancer 7 years ago and he decided to ignore the issue. He is fine and seems to be 25 years younger than others of his same age.
    Surely if we might see the medicine of the future we would realize that much of what we believe to be the best that we can now do is only a belief.. anyway as parents we want to force them to do what we think is the more reasonable but I believe that we must to trust in their good judgment. We only should to insists, if the insistence not provoke a damage and we are absolutely sure about what is the best.. something really difficult and not only in something so complex as scoliosis is.
    First of all, I don't want anyone to take me wrong here. I'm not advocating that people with cancer or any other serious disease "do nothing". But, since you bring it up, Flerc, I feel impelled to say that my grandmother did the same thing. She was already in her 70's and was diagnosed with breast cancer. Her friends that had it at the same age fought it with all of the treatments. My grandmother did nothing. She outlived them all by several years. Yes, the cancer did eventually take her. But I see your point about overreacting to everything and trying to "do something", when maybe the best thing to do in some cases is nothing.

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    Yes Roher, of course nobody is recomending to do nothing. I believe that the decision is the consecuence of the belief that is not necessary to do anything because the feeling that all is right. To not do nothing, but believing strongly in the disease surely would not be something good. I’m sure that the mind power is immeasurable and may be used in the right or in the wrong way. I have heard that animals at least in natural enviroment have not concious of the age so they never feel old. I saw a documental of a very old elephant who was the leader of the herd and a young elephant challenged him. He might have refused to fight taking into account how old he was and how young was the challenger but he didn’t and he won the battle. After a cellebration with all the herd (except the humiliated challenger) he choosed the nicest of the young elephants and impregnated her. Then he was to the elphant cementery and died.
    Why seems to be something imposible for humans? I’m sure that the concious of the age have much to do. Certainly it would not surprise me that my father would does something similar. He allways says that he not believe in his age. We believed that he could not survive after the death of my mother, as ocurrs with all marriages over 60 years together. He is close to his 90th birthday and he behave now as an adolescent. Is incredible but he is an atractive man and sexualy active.. I’m worry about his behaviour, he might finish in a complicate situation, but is what he feel to be right and he is fine.. so it’s okay for me.
    Last edited by flerc; 01-21-2012 at 03:56 PM.

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