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Thread: FAO Dr. McIntire - interesting muscle study results

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmcphee View Post
    Scoliosisfamily said that her youngest daughter when at 9 with a 19 curve used the spinecor brace, which resulted in a curve reduction to 2.
    I cannot believe that. I cannot imagine how some proffesionals may believe that a reduction 'in brace' under 35% or 30% may achieve a real reduction. Why not stretch enough the spine before??

    Quote Originally Posted by sjmcphee View Post
    But I'm thinking a little deeper about the results.
    The fact that the curve again regressed or worsened tells me that although the spine straightened from the brace , the assumed underlying muscle problem wasn't fixed - or an least not completely fixed.
    And so I wonder (and this is a way out there question) if at all its possible that being young and with bones not fully developed that these braces might actually force the undeveloped bones to give a little bit that allows for the assumed curve reduction whilst not actually fixing the underlying the muscle problem - or maybe they do actually help fix the underlying muscle problem somewhat, but the undeveloped bones give a little bit as well and hinder the precise nature of the results...
    Yeah I know I'm rambling... sorry.
    - Scott
    Certainly Spinecor is not a brace and (I suppose) it should to allow any kind of movements so muscular problems should not arise.
    At least during growth, a significant reduction (around 40%) should to achieve some remodelation in bones, because the difference of pressure must to be more equal.
    Last edited by flerc; 12-26-2011 at 11:26 AM.

  2. #47
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    Hey Sharon,
    Plastic tape - yes it sounds a little bodgey hey, I think thats part of what threw me off. I was not impressed either.
    Nethertheless I'm pretty sure he did measure properly, or he at least seemed to know what he was doing even though he didn't seem that interested.
    If it was possible he was pulling my leg rather than measuring it, then I wouldn't like to speculate on that.
    It was from up the tops of my legs (on the outside) and down to somewhere around my ankles.
    This must've been 10yrs ago now though, so its a little hard to remember exactly.
    My focus of interest has always been on the (yeah I know) accident / physical alteration that changed the structure of my spinal column, and in understanding the subsequent altered loading of my individual curve pattern that resulted from it.
    I don't expect you to believe me Sharon and I respect that, and won't attempt to try and change your opinion other than to explain my story honestly.
    I don't expect anyone to believe me (about some of the less believeable things I say) without undeniable proof, but one day if I again attempt to try, it would be nice if others just supported an investigation into it.
    I'd be happy with that.

    -Scott
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 12-26-2011 at 11:30 AM.

  3. #48
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    Hi Scoliosisfamily,
    I know you're new here.
    Please don't misunderstand Flercs comment to think he's saying you're a liar.
    We all take our scoliosis thoughts and ideas somewhat serious around here, and when someone says something that doesn't seem quite right, someone else inevitably goes on the attack.
    Just so you know, he's probably questioning the methods the spinecor guys are using to measure curve reduction rather than challenging you.
    I'm sure he didn't mean to be inconsiderate. Please dont be offended.

    - Scott
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 12-26-2011 at 11:42 AM.

  4. #49
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    No of course I'm not thinking she may be a liar and I don't want to attack anyone, it's only an expression. Surely would be more correct to say that I cannot understand how proffesionals may believe that a little reduction in brace would be enough.. even may be because my ignorance.
    Last edited by flerc; 12-26-2011 at 12:03 PM.

  5. #50
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    Hey Flerc,
    It's ok - I know what you meant. lol
    I was just making sure you didn't scare her off.
    Yes - go on the attack - its just an expression.
    - Scott
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 12-26-2011 at 12:16 PM.

  6. #51
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    I'm jumping back into this conversation. As far as scoliosisfamily's statement, I am under the impression that the curve was reduced from 19* to 2*, not reduced by 2*. In that case, that is quite an in-brace reduction, which is another assumption, that the x-ray showing 2* was in-brace.

    Now to the leg discrepancy issue: I also have a leg length discrepancy of I don't know how much. I wore a shoe lift as a teen as part of my "treatment". I hated it. It made me feel like I was walking on a step all of the time AND I couldn't wear whatever shoes I wanted. That's a big deal to a young female. Now here's the thing. I've always thought leg discrepancy was common among scolis. This is also my assumption. If this is the case, and in my case I've been measured by several doctors both general practitioners and scoliosis specialists, does the leg length discrepancy come as a result of the scoliosis or the scoliosis as a result of the leg lengths or are they just a package deal as both sides of the body are not perfectly symmetrical? It could be that this whole thing starts when the neural tube is closing as an embryo, but is mild enough that it doesn't show up until later in some people OR hormonal triggers set off the change of events that eventually lead to the scoli. Is the leg length disparity always present or does it develop with the scoliosis?

    Now, along with something Scott said, I could also "feel" as my lower curve progressed that one leg was shorter. So, in my own wisdom, uh...hum...., decided to put a lift in the heel of the shoe of the leg that "felt" shorter. I couldn't remember which leg was shorter, as it had been over a decade since I had worn a lift. When I went to the doc (PCP), I told him about it and he measured my legs. Long story short, my LONG leg felt short and I was actually wearing the lift on the wrong side! Needless to say, I quit wearing it for fear I would make my curve worse. But my perception was off. Now is this an issue of proprioception? Who knows. But I do for sure know that the leg that "feels" shorter (but is actually longer) is VERY weak in comparison to my other leg. It is also on the same side as the convexity of my main curve (left). I am right handed and right legged, so this could be purely coincidence. Also another unknown.

    Also, Scott had asked me to cite some reference information about the King classification. It is easily found on the internet. I did cite the NIH's comparison of the King vs. Lenke classifications. There are some other conflicting comparisons out there, though. It's just a matter of taking the time to find the papers. Unfortunately, I am not a university student anymore and I don't work in my field of study. Therefore, I don't have access to full PubMed articles and such as I formerly had. I do not know if you, Scott, have the ability to gain access to these articles as I have no idea what your qualifications are except being a computer "geek" (that is meant with the highest regard, as I love being called a "geek" by people who don't understand me...LOL).

  7. #52
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    Hi Rohrer,
    Thanks for your comment.
    I could never get my hands on the articles I needed to read, only abstacts.
    I think if I'd have gone up to the university and used their library I could have gotten access to articles I needed.
    It's no big deal if you're unable to source them for me. I'll poke around online sometime and see what I can find.
    All this stuff should already be on here though. This is why I need to create scoliosis websites.
    All this info should be easily accessable from scoliosis sites, even if you have to pay for it.

    They say that scoliosis can't be caused by leg discrepency, but there might be more to this story... somehow.
    Good point about which came first - When the doc measured my legs I and said there was a difference, I wondered the same and whether or not the change in load in my spine, especially the lumbar was somehow responsible for the difference in measurement... or his plastic tape...
    As much as I hate to admit that my body may have been slightly less than perfect before my injury, if I be honest with myself I have to admit something wasn't quite right - but the structure of my spinal column (and normal operation of spinal biomechanics) was still intact.
    I had a great burning pain behind my shoulder blade for weeks before my injury, and I'd felt it before in other labour jobs I'd had previously.
    I'd previously been through a rough period in my life, and I badly wanted to get back on top of things, so I took all the overtime I could in my new job and just ignored the paid to some degree - even though usually I wouldn't have. I pushed my body too far, when it was telling me to easy up.
    It wasn't just the stress my spine was under - it's very much a case of the particular way I was using my back in the wrong manner (like a crane) whilst combining with a specific twisting force, and there wasn't one single injury in itself, whatever went crunch in my spine and altered the spinal biomechanics wasn't just one crunch, it was 2 simultaneously - meaning whatever changed adjusted itself on one side of the spine, then there was another crunch - it did the same on the other side as a result of the first crunch - its a balanced injury - and a tiny concave and convex was formed.
    Anyhow, I said I wasn't going to talk too much about this stuff in respect of the original thread and not veering too far off course.
    So I'd better stop.
    I'm right handed and right legged too, but I wouldn't say that one of my legs is markably stronger or weaker than the other even though my right leg probably is a tiny bit stronger, but I'm not sure if that really relates to coordination.
    Definately I'm better co-ordinated as far as kicking a ball for instance, I can kick further and with better co-ordination as compared to my left.
    I definately would say my right arm is stronger than the left, but I do use it more, and also have much better coordination with it as well, when for instance I throw a ball.
    But none of these things has a differential enough that it is noticable to anyone else, (unless I'm kicking or throwing a ball)
    I'm the only one who can really tell.
    On the outside, it probably seems as though I'm just like anyone else, except my mildish scoliosis.

    I don't have any specific technical qualifications at all.
    I'm just learning web design at my own pace using online video tutorials and the support I get from online communities such as rockettheme.
    Theres a lot of skilled people on there just sometimes you have to be prepared to be patient and wait for the next day to get the help you need to deal with a particular issue. Theres places online such ashttp://www.lynda.com/ where you pay a monthly fee and have access to all the software video tutorials you want. That's how I learned.
    It's all good fun and learning. You can call me a geek if you want - yes it is like a compliment hey.
    - But I'm still really a newbie with all the software, computer coding, web design tricks etc.

    BTW, I'd also be interested to see the stats on leg length comparison between scoli patients and non-scoli people.
    - Scott
    Last edited by sjmcphee; 12-27-2011 at 12:45 AM.

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