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Thread: Dr. Douglas Kiester discusses MAGEC - Remote Control Spinal Deformity System

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    My problem seems to be that Iím seeing medicine as a real science.. in a real science could never happen something like that!
    If a physicist says that all theories around Unified Theory are wrong because a simple experiment showed an important fact and now he is selling a machine to travel through the time, all his collegues will want to know about that experiment and will destroy her theory if would not be true what he says.
    But Physics is a science..
    Okay I think I understand what you are saying.

    In medicine or in any science, it is very rare that one study can more the needle on an entire field instantly. Part of the reason is that there needs to be time for others to repeat the study and confirm the results. Something like a cadaver study that probably isn't even about scoliosis is not expected to matter for a while even if it is correct. And of course we must consider the results are false.

    Why are you caring so much about that one cadaver study? I am sure there are 100s of other cadaver studies like it. Why that one? Articles that get posted here by random lay people are random.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
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    "We are all African."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Something like a cadaver study that probably isn't even about scoliosis is not expected to matter for a while even if it is correct. And of course we must consider the results are false.

    Why are you caring so much about that one cadaver study? I am sure there are 100s of other cadaver studies like it. Why that one? Articles that get posted here by random lay people are random.
    Ok. Iíll read all about Magec again, mainly about what lead to Dr. Kiesler to be so sure about what he says about that ligament. But if itís only a theory and surgeons really has a great knowledge, they should to say something.. but certainly.. am I not understanding what I read or an important surgeon said that Magec is a great invention? Why may say that if he not believe that the theory behind it is right?.. and anyway, it would not be simple to prove it with an (right) experiment?

  3. #33
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    I must be a little slow.

    This video explains the MAGEC system. It was already posted in another thread but for some reason I thought this was a competitor's device.

    Here is the article in the Daily Mail about the MAGEC system.
    Now I can walk tall... all thanks to my remote controlled bionic spine

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Ok. I’ll read all about Magec again, mainly about what lead to Dr. Kiesler to be so sure about what he says about that ligament. But if it’s only a theory and surgeons really has a great knowledge, they should to say something.. but certainly.. am I not understanding what I read or an important surgeon said that Magec is a great invention? Why may say that if he not believe that the theory behind it is right?.. and anyway, it would not be simple to prove it with an (right) experiment?
    Okay now we are back to Kiester's ligament claim?

    If you are talking about Kiester's C-L-A-I-M that a tight ligament causes the rotation and curvature, the reason that nobody in the medical community appears to care may be because he has apparently been claiming that for years but has yet to S-H-O-W any evidence for the claim.

    I think there is a consensus that the anterior overgrowth of the spine causes the curvature/rotation and maybe the overgrowth is caused by a tight ligament. But if it is then I am not clear on why that wouldn't have been discovered long ago. And why hasn't Kiester published a damn thing S-H-O-W-I-N-G the tight ligament causes scoliosis? Instead, he is working on random cosmology, archaeology, and medieval religious stuff. And the scoliosis research community continues to plug away at a million other things.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Okay I think I understand what you are saying.

    In medicine or in any science, it is very rare that one study can more the needle on an entire field instantly. Part of the reason is that there needs to be time for others to repeat the study and confirm the results.
    Certainly what an experiment may prove, are inconsistences..as Einstein said, no amount of experimentation can prove definitively his theory, but a single experiment can prove he was wrong.
    I believe that if after cutting that ligament, the spine remains stiff, then the theory is wrong.
    But anyway, if the spine would turn extremely flexible only doing that cutt.. it would seems extremely reasonable. Surgeons and Researchers never thought in doing such proof? Or really it has nothing to do? Is difficult for me to imagine that.

  6. #36
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    Fer, medicine is not like physics. It is much more complex.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Certainly what an experiment may prove, are inconsistences..as Einstein said, no amount of experimentation can prove definitively his theory, but a single experiment can prove he was wrong.
    I believe that if after cutting that ligament, the spine remains stiff, then the theory is wrong.
    But anyway, if the spine would turn extremely flexible only doing that cutt.. it would seems extremely reasonable. Surgeons and Researchers never thought in doing such proof? Or really it has nothing to do? Is difficult for me to imagine that.
    They did this release with Elisa's son Elias, if you read through her thread you might find it interesting what they did with him.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Fer, medicine is not like physics. It is much more complex.
    Three years ago I would have laugh reading that.. now I'm sure about that.. it was not a good discovery for me ..although I remains believing that none science may be over the logic.. at least by now..

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    They did this release with Elisa's son Elias, if you read through her thread you might find it interesting what they did with him.
    Thanks Roher, I think I have read something about an amazing reduction.. I'll try to find it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    They did this release with Elisa's son Elias, if you read through her thread you might find it interesting what they did with him.
    I don't think it is the same. Kiester said that type of release would not be helpful for surgery.

    And I am still not sure they "released" any ligaments at all in Elias's (or anyone's) surgery.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I don't think it is the same. Kiester said that type of release would not be helpful for surgery.

    And I am still not sure they "released" any ligaments at all in Elias's (or anyone's) surgery.
    Just going by what his mom said.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    Just going by what his mom said.
    I thought she said she wasn't sure and would find out.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I thought she said she wasn't sure and would find out.
    I know she said they did a posterior release, for sure. Maybe she will pipe in. Otherwise, I directed flerc to her thread. He can ask her.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    I know she said they did a posterior release, for sure. Maybe she will pipe in. Otherwise, I directed flerc to her thread. He can ask her.
    Yes but we have no idea what is involved in a "posterior release." Maybe no ligaments are involved. Maybe they released a bunch of other stuff. Who knows.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 12-05-2011 at 07:13 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #45
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    Fer,

    I have reviewed the thread and will take one more whack at this...

    You seem to be connecting two things that are not connected...

    1. Kiester's claim that a tight ligament causes curvature/rotation, and

    2. a random cadaver study showing the cutting of certain ligaments helps with de-rotating the ribs and removing a rib hump during surgery.

    A lay person on this group thought there two things were related but they are not.... Kiester said that what is involved in the cadaver study is NOT related to the ligament that he claims causes curvature/rotation.

    That is why you thought this was more significant than it is. If solving scoliosis was as easy as cutting a ligament then there would be no more scoliosis. But we don't obtain that result and that is why Kiester has never SHOWN that is the case. He also uses that as an explanation for why bracing makes AIS curves worse despite the fact that I doubt there is a single study showing that bracing makes curves worse. And then many scoliosis patients have LOOSE not tight ligaments. That's three strikes AGAINST Kiester's tight ligament hypothesis of scoliosis. There are probably more, who knows.

    You have to develop more of a skeptical, less credulous approach to what is posted here. None of us have training and when a lay person connects two things they may or may not be connected. Had you realized this, you would have saved some anguished confusion.

    That's my best shot at what went down.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

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