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  • my case-

    Hello,

    ok I have the xrays. Xrays from 5 years ago said "mild scoliosis is present at L4-5 convex to the left" but I never knew about that until 4 months ago. I never in a million years thought I had scoliosis. I am almost positive I was laying down for those xrays so I don't know - and I don't have a copy of the image. Friends who have looked at my back say it looks concave to the left so go figure. PT's really try to avoid looking closely at my back- it is very strange.

    So attached are xrays from a couple of months ago. For these xrays I was standing as I always have- and that is with my hips rotated counterclockwise. I never even knew I stood like that until about 6 months when a physiotherapist pointed it out. The radioligist's report said my spine is rotated to the right from sacrum to mid thoracic level with "no associated curvature" though a chiropractor looking at these xrays did say there is a curvature but then again, he was also trying to sell me a 3x/week for a year adjustment plan....

    Also I got a lumbar ct scan which does say I have some disk bulging etc. But the main point I want to convey is it says "no significant focal malalignment". I am not sure what that means- I think it means no slipped disks. Neither xrays or ct scan mentions scoliosis but I think they do not normally report it. I got my GP to question the radiologist about the rotation and apparently he said, well there is no wedging so maybe it is reversible, but really, they admit they don't know and don't see it as a health care issue (which I find so incredible...)

    This last year has been really upsetting because I have been getting radiculopthy down my left leg and arm. It now appears that my whole left leg has not been 100% since the first xray was taken 5 years ago (I asked for it because of leg numbness). I thought the numbness went away but it never did- it was actually subtle- I have concrete reasons for knowing that. I have had emg studies and L4 is still denervated and L2 is irritated and those are the only ones that were tested. So now I am also wondering- did this numbeness cause the rotation or vice versa and what can I do about the numbness..

    I know for absolute certian that hip rotation to the left turns on the radiculopiathy (stinging/chemical type burning). I really feel the only solution for me is to attempt to derotate or at least stop it from getting worse. Physiotherapistw I have been to don't want to get into anything unilateral. I also suspect that when I am derotated that my right hip is sticking out to the side. I cannot hold onto this position though.

    I met my brother for the first time in 5 years a couple of weeks ago and his right scapula is sticking out and his left shoulder is elevated and it hurts. I know another lady, about 65, who just recently actually popped a rib- her scapula sticks way out and i can see she is rotated- I am pretty sure her rib popped because her rib cage is rotating. I really want to avoid this fate because it is hugely painful. For me, I want to try Schroth or some sort of exercise based maintenance regime. But this is way out of the league of any physios I have seen to date. I demonstrated my own derotation exercise to my GP and she looked scared and told me not to do it- but really, she has no idea either.


    thank you.


    attached (in next post)are:

    1. diagram of body rotations
    2. diagram of pain
    3 lumbar (anterior posterior)
    4 thoracic (anterior posterior)
    5 cervical (anterior posterior)
    6 lumbar (lateral)
    7 thoracic (lateral)
    8 cervical (lateral)

  • #2
    ok here are the images


    Diagram of Rotations pain.jpg

    Duagram of Pain mysupineibody.jpg

    Lumbar AP pubxrayaplumbar.jpg

    Thoracic APpubxraythoracicap.jpg

    Cervical AP pubxraycervap.jpg

    I will put the laterals in the next post

    thanx

    Comment


    • #3
      ok, here are the lateral views


      lumbar: pubxraylateralLumbar.jpg
      thoracic: pubxraythorlat.jpg
      cervical pubxraycervlat.jpg


      thank you very much. I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions. Thank you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi...

        You definitely do not have scoliosis. Your spine is just about as straight as it can get. You might have a little too much kyphosis in your upper thoracic spine, but I'm guessing that your neck is compensating for it. It looks like you have some mild degenerative changes in the upper thoracic spine as well, which could account for back pain.

        Regards,
        Linda
        Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
        Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you Linda, that is very reassuring. I still do feel I have some sort of twisted spine problem- you can see that it is rotated. I see people like this everywhere- with one high shoulder, one protruding scapula, rotated hips, one foot more externally rotated. And it's painful. I don't know if they have lateral curves- I don't see them. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree but I really think this is some sort of progressive rotational scoliosis.

          Anyway, thank you very much for your input I really appreciate it.

          ps- haha, I just read you signature- "never argue with an idiot..." lol, it may look like an idiot looking for an arguement, and maybe I am but I don't want to argue, no worries there.
          Last edited by whatishappening; 08-23-2011, 08:44 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by whatishappening View Post
            Thank you Linda, that is very reassuring. I still do feel I have some sort of twisted spine problem- you can see that it is rotated. I see people like this everywhere- with one high shoulder, one protruding scapula, rotated hips, one foot more externally rotated. And it's painful. I don't know if they have lateral curves- I don't see them. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree but I really think this is some sort of progressive rotational scoliosis.

            Anyway, thank you very much for your input I really appreciate it.

            ps- haha, I just read you signature- "never argue with an idiot..." lol, it may look like an idiot looking for an arguement, and maybe I am but I don't want to argue, no worries there.
            Hi...

            Your pelvis may be rotated, but your spine is not. You can see rotation by looking at the pedicles that look almost perfectly symmetrical on your X-rays. Whatever your issue is, I suspect it's not in your bones. It could be some sort of soft tissue problem. If you can find a really good physical therapist, they may be able to figure it out.

            --Linda
            Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
            Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

            Comment


            • #7
              For what it's worth, I'm starting Egoscue training - it works on straightening muscle imbalances and rotation. I've heard good things about it. There is a Pain Free Performance clinic in my city and a certified trainer is teaching a class at my gym. You may want to see if it's available where you live.
              34L at diagnosis; Boston Brace 1979
              Current: 50L, 28T

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Dailystrength, thank you for the suggestion, I would love to take something like that - I just checked though and it is not offered here.. Too bad.

                Thank you for responding Linda. Also, today, I realized you are bang on about my neck- it is forward in reaction to the thoracic. I have been to 2 chiros who have just given me chin retraction exercises but if I focus on trying to flatten my back, my chin goes back naturally. So you have a good eye for sure, thank you for that!

                So, at the risk of sounding arguementative- and really I am not argueing- I am so ignorant, really this is more of a question. Attached are the lumbar and thoracic xrays again, with, what I think are the spineous process, highlighted in red. You can see it is rotating. That is why I thought the radiologist says its rotated. And really he wrote in the report: "rotation of spinous processes to the right extending from approx mid- thoracic level to sacrum level . There is no associated abnormal curvature..."

                So I am so confused. Why did he say the spineous processes are rotated. Why didn't he say the vertebrea are rotated? So are the spineous processes bent? Because I do get what you are saying abiout the pedicles looking symmetrical...

                I SO wish I could find someone here to help me with this.

                I mean, is that radiologist pulling my leg? I do feel like my spine is rotated. The first time I rotated left without cheating and using my hips- wow, wow, it felt aweful. And it wouldexplain my shoulder blade.

                thanx

                here are the xrays with spineous processes highlighted in red

                lumbar ap pubxrayaplumbar2.jpg
                thoracic ap pubxraythoracicap2.jpg
                Last edited by whatishappening; 08-23-2011, 09:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is an interesting thread.

                  I am going to throw something out there that may or may not be relevant. You might consider that this is not so rare.

                  Many riders are not born being able to immediately sit straight in the saddle. They are in a "spiral left" or spiral right" seat which means their pelvis is rotated left or right slightly. For example, I am in a slight spiral left seat naturally but my horse is so sensitive to seat aids that I automatically correct it whenever I am riding without thinking. On some days when my horse clearly isn't going straight from my seat, I consciously correct the spiral left to straight and then he moves straight. It is very slight and not even visible but horses can detect even slight rotations in the seat, mere ounce differences in one seat bone versus the other, which is one of the million reasons that makes riding so challenging.

                  Some riders have significant spiral seat issues and they struggle to learn to ride. The issue is that you have to be able to spiral the seat equally left and right for turning. I don't know whether these folks are born that way or develop it to protect an injured area or what.

                  Have you had a significant orthopedic injury anywhere in your body at any point in time? That may have triggered the spiral in your pelvis.
                  Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

                  No island of sanity.

                  Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
                  Answer: Medicine


                  "We are all African."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i would suggest taking Linda's advice...
                    maybe you could find a good PT...one who specializes in back problems...?
                    the dictionary defines scoliosis as the abnormal curvature of the spine...
                    your spine looks stick straight...
                    maybe it is muscles that are causing your problem....

                    if you do indeed have a bulging disc, that can cause a lot of pain...i have several herniated discs, and i
                    knew the day it first happened...the pain was intense...the discs still cause pain and problems for me...

                    how many spinal specialists have you consulted? maybe you need to consult with another doctor...
                    pain can constrict one's life, regardless of what is causing it...
                    perhaps you need a more sympathetic doctor...?

                    jess
                    Last edited by jrnyc; 08-23-2011, 09:57 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by whatishappening View Post
                      Hi Dailystrength, thank you for the suggestion, I would love to take something like that - I just checked though and it is not offered here.. Too bad.

                      Thank you for responding Linda. Also, today, I realized you are bang on about my neck- it is forward in reaction to the thoracic. I have been to 2 chiros who have just given me chin retraction exercises but if I focus on trying to flatten my back, my chin goes back naturally. So you have a good eye for sure, thank you for that!

                      So, at the risk of sounding arguementative- and really I am not argueing- I am so ignorant, really this is more of a question. Attached are the lumbar and thoracic xrays again, with, what I think are the spineous process, highlighted in red. You can see it is rotating. That is why I thought the radiologist says its rotated. And really he wrote in the report: "rotation of spinous processes to the right extending from approx mid- thoracic level to sacrum level . There is no associated abnormal curvature..."

                      So I am so confused. Why did he say the spineous processes are rotated. Why didn't he say the vertebrea are rotated? So are the spineous processes bent? Because I do get what you are saying abiout the pedicles looking symmetrical...

                      I SO wish I could find someone here to help me with this.

                      I mean, is that radiologist pulling my leg? I do feel like my spine is rotated. The first time I rotated left without cheating and using my hips- wow, wow, it felt aweful. And it wouldexplain my shoulder blade.

                      thanx

                      here are the xrays with spineous processes highlighted in red

                      lumbar ap [ATTACH]1050[/ATTACH]
                      thoracic ap [ATTACH]1051[/ATTACH]
                      I'm not sure what, if anything, it means, but I doubt it's the cause of any pain.
                      Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                      Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jrnyc View Post
                        ......
                        how many spinal specialists have you consulted? maybe you need to consult with another doctor...
                        pain can constrict one's life, regardless of what is causing it...
                        perhaps you need a more sympathetic doctor...?

                        jess

                        Thank you for responding- well that is just the thing- it's Canada and I cannot see anyone because it is not disabling yet. Well to me it is disabling because I have had to stop most activities I enjoy, cut back work and generally overtake my life. But that is not bad enough to warrent a specialist. My own GP says "can't you just live with the pain?" I mean, it's mind boggling but true. I have gone to chiropractors (2 so far) and well, they are not spine specialists. I feel very frustrated, but thank you. I keep paying $75-$100 a shot for physios but have yet to find someone who knows. Thus the post here. Thanx.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Linda- well I just realized why the guy said spineous processes and not vertebrea

                          imagesCARAW728.jpg

                          http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...128#post124128


                          so I hope you are right and it is just a disk but 5 years of radiculopathy, I am not sure. Anyway, I hope the deformation of that spineous process is not the cause of my troubles.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by whatishappening View Post
                            Hi Linda- well I just realized why the guy said spineous processes and not vertebrea

                            [ATTACH]1052[/ATTACH]

                            http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...128#post124128


                            so I hope you are right and it is just a disk but 5 years of radiculopathy, I am not sure. Anyway, I hope the deformation of that spineous process is not the cause of my troubles.
                            It's typical, in scoliosis, for the spinous processes to be bent, but not without a corresponding curve. It would be interesting to hear if Kevin Macintyre has any input. I think the problem almost certainly has to be a soft tissue problem, and not a bone problem.

                            --Linda
                            Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                            Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i'm sorry...i didn't realize you are dealing with the Canadian system....
                              i know it can mean delays when they do not consider an emergency to be an emergency....
                              i am sorry you are in pain...
                              i wish you could come to the States to get help...

                              jess

                              Comment

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