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Thread: Scoliosis & Heavy Metal Allergy

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    I suspect this is an issue of one doctor having no clue about what he's seeing.

    No Linda, these are both highly esteemed medical doctors, both orthopedic surgeons who should know what the heck they are talking about. Why the discrepancy? And who is the average patient supposed to believe? In fact, you can go to 10 different doctors, and frequently you will get 10 different diagnoses. That has happened to me ( maybe not 10, but certainly 5).
    Mother of 14 yr old daughter with scoliosis
    Diagnosed at 12th birthday 1/09: 17T 13L
    6/09: 18T 14L Oh God she's increasing
    4/10: 27T 16L My worst nightmare
    7/10: 33T 18L Oh help God!
    7/10: off to CLEAR Institute: We'll see
    10/10: 33T 16L What?
    1/11: 31T 16L 6 months after CLEAR... hhmmm...

    "What a long, strange trip it's been..."

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    that was not an insult..
    apparently you dont believe in free speech...
    it is called an OPINION
    people are allowed to have them!
    and express them!

    people who believe in alternative treatments need to grow thicker skin!
    not everyone will agree with them
    it is called America!
    and my friend John who had his fillings removed, personally told everyone he wasted his money!

    i wasted my money...so that is what i said...
    and i personally think pursuing metal allergy is a waste of money!

    that is MY opinion..
    you can have your own...and i won't tell you not to!

    jess


    Yes, everything you say about having your own opinion and this is America ( & the rest of the free world on the Internet) is true of course. There is no doubt about that. But it seems you are missing the whole point. These type of medical forums are here to support patients (& parents of patients) who are suffering. They are looking for understanding, compassion, and comraderie from others in similar circumstances. They do not need criticism ( yes, it was definitely criticism!!!) of the choices they make from someone who has a diifferent opinion than they do. There is a whole world of people out there who would have a different opinion on her treatment. She does not need that! That is why she wants to find other people who are dealing with scoliosis that she can relate to and who can relate to her. If you don't relate to her, then let it go. People come here for support, not to be critiqued.
    Mother of 14 yr old daughter with scoliosis
    Diagnosed at 12th birthday 1/09: 17T 13L
    6/09: 18T 14L Oh God she's increasing
    4/10: 27T 16L My worst nightmare
    7/10: 33T 18L Oh help God!
    7/10: off to CLEAR Institute: We'll see
    10/10: 33T 16L What?
    1/11: 31T 16L 6 months after CLEAR... hhmmm...

    "What a long, strange trip it's been..."

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Opinions and insults are not mutually exclusive. In fact, most insults *are* just opinions.

    People are allowed to voice their opinion (although that isn't a protected right on a private forum) and other people are allowed to say they're insulted by those opinions (also not a protected right). And so the conversational wheel goes 'round.
    Very well said hdugger!
    Mother of 14 yr old daughter with scoliosis
    Diagnosed at 12th birthday 1/09: 17T 13L
    6/09: 18T 14L Oh God she's increasing
    4/10: 27T 16L My worst nightmare
    7/10: 33T 18L Oh help God!
    7/10: off to CLEAR Institute: We'll see
    10/10: 33T 16L What?
    1/11: 31T 16L 6 months after CLEAR... hhmmm...

    "What a long, strange trip it's been..."

  4. #94
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    that is ridiculous!
    it wasn't criticism....it was an OPINION!
    i dealt with it when i tried an "alternative"...and i mean REALLY alternative treatment in Mexico...it could never have been tried in the US, and it didn't work...i dealt with the consequences as well!
    many people warned me not to go...
    i did what i felt i had to, out of desperation! i took their OPINIONS into consideration, then made my own decision...
    i am sure Andrea will do the same....
    so did my friend who had his fillings removed. we both knew what it was like to feel desperate
    i do not for one minute believe anyone who didn't feel desperate would have their fillings removed!

    if one doesn't want opinions, one should state that when posting!
    if one doesn't want to hear the experience of others who have tried the SAME approach, one should state that when posting!


    i am plenty supportive of lots of people with their spinal probelms on here...i have those same problems myself
    i will not express an opinion of support to someone i feel is going to do something that will waste her time, when she could spend that time looking for the doctor who could give her the correct diagnosis!
    i believe there are very few medical mysteries that can't be solved by the best, "refuse to quit" dedicated medical people...though there are few of those around, sad to say...in my OPINION!

    most stuff expressed on this forum is opinion...unless it is hard and fast medical fact that can be proven in a lab or in medical research of some kind...it is opinion...

    i feel very badly for Andrea...i just think she is chasing smoke and mirrors...and wasting precious time...
    that is my OPINION!

    personally, i think you are ENABLING the wrong pursuit on her part...with the best of intentions...but then, we know what path is paved with the best of intentions...
    spoon feeding sweetness to people is sometimes the worst thing you can do...
    i thought the woman might be interested in some truth...
    apparently, i was wrong...
    but i did express what many on forum thought (and wrote) privately...
    telling someone what they want to hear is not really helping!

    jess
    Last edited by jrnyc; 03-22-2011 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #95
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    you are wrong, hdugger!

    opinions are not the same as insults...
    check the dictionary if you do not believe that!
    i am a licensed social worker...with many successful years of experience with kids and adults..
    i know all about support
    i also know about enabling

    i wouldn't want anyone to agree that i should go to Mexico to treat cancer with ground apricot pits...
    i WOULD want to know if they knew anyone personally who tried the same treatment that i was about to try...
    and the crazy tx i did try in Mexico was recommended by 2 of the top doctors in the field!
    they meant well, too

    but some people do not want to hear or read the truth
    there is plenty of truth to be found on the internet, of how successful certain procedures are...

    i think you are insulting, to imply that i am cold or callous or don't care...
    but if that is your "opinion" of me, so be it...you do not know me, so it does not matter to me

    i feel bad for Andrea
    i just think she is going to find out her pursuit will hit a dead end...
    but that is the beauty of America...she has a perfect right to try it...

    jess
    Last edited by jrnyc; 03-22-2011 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Opinions and insults are not mutually exclusive. In fact, most insults *are* just opinions.
    Actually, many perceived insults are merely scientific facts.

    Exhibit A: Almost 40% of the US populace thinks the world in a few thousand years old and are insulted when you ask them to start making sense.

    Exhibit A: A majority of the US populace are insulted when you point out that humans are but one of several dozen species of primates that evolved from a common ancestor about 85 million years ago.

    These are scientific facts that are taken as insults. What can you do except be embarrassed?
    Last edited by Pooka1; 03-22-2011 at 03:59 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #97
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    hey Sharon
    well, some people are pretty scary with what they believe...
    i still remember when Sherri Shepherd said on "The View" that she wasn't sure the earth was round, or something like that...
    and we wont get into what some still believe about Obama!

    i have not read anyone's posts on forum that really seemed like insults to me, except those of certain few who shall be nameless who used to call you some nasty names...
    i was very offended by it...you took it in stride!

    i think you are familiar with what i write on forum, and you know i would never intentionally look to hurt anyone...
    i have dealt with enough sickness and medical troubles myself, and with my family, to not sympathize with whatever someone feels compelled to do
    when medicine doesn't have answers for a patient, it can get really frightening

    people don't generally go into social work to cause others pain, either...

    but EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions...
    including those who believe the earth is flat!

    jess

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    hey Sharon
    well, some people are pretty scary with what they believe...
    i still remember when Sherri Shepherd said on "The View" that she wasn't sure the earth was round, or something like that...
    and we wont get into what some still believe about Obama!
    Yes she is particularly clueless about scientific facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkrkaH_V7fE

    There are ways to try to square religion and science enough for religious people at least. This woman would benefit from those approaches.

    people don't generally go into social work to cause others pain, either...
    Yes you are one of the only people I know about in the group with this training. We probably could use more.

    but EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions...
    including those who believe the earth is flat!
    Yes they are entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. So many jump the tracks at that point.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 03-22-2011 at 04:00 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #99
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    It is impossible to state some facts without them being taken as insulting by huge swaths of poeple. IMPOSSIBLE.

    There simply hasn't been a word construction invented to get across some facts without insulting some people.

    There is no amount of sugar-coating it or softening it when you are dealing with someone who refuses to make sense.

    That accounts for the bulk of the so-called insults around here in my opinion. And there is not a damn thing for it other than to try to improve science education.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #100
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    The intentons were all good. They were just trying to save her time, money and an excessive amount of worry over something that they believe to be bogus. But, on the other hand, when people are desperate, they will try just about anything. Now IF the metal allergy turns out to be a legitimate thing, the next step would be what to do about it. Is there even a proven treatment for it?

    It is very hard to convey emotion with words when it is a written format. We are not all novelists. If we were, maybe we could all get our points accross without offending anyone.

  11. #101
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    yes, rohr...
    that was the point...

    people tried to save me the time, aggravation, and money going to Mexico on a secret "alternative tx" trip...
    i did it anyway, didn't fault anyone for their opinion, because i knew they were trying to look out for me...
    and when 2 top doctors tell you to try it, it is very tempting!
    the doctors were also frustrated with patients who were being treated but not showing any improvement!

    when one speaks of people needing "compassion, understanding, and support," there was then an implication that i didn't understand that purpose of the forum and didn't offer same...thus, i took that to be your OPINION of me, and as an insult...no matter, as those who do not know me therefore know nothing of my character or intentions...
    of course an opinion can be insulting...but that doesn't mean they all are, nor does it mean that an opinion is meant to be insulting...
    maybe it is meant to be an offer of sober knowledge by someone who can be objective...
    that is one reason people see therapists...

    everyone claims that some celebrities get crazy and sick (Charlie Sheen?) because those around them only tell them what they want to hear...it does no one any favor!
    it does more good, in my OPINION, to do what Sharon did, and point out procedures on Quackwatch...
    knowledge is supposed to be POWER...the more knowledge, the better...

    it is called making an "informed" decision, rather than an uninformed one!

    but some do not want knowledge...they just want reassurance that no matter their choice, they are right

    jess
    Last edited by jrnyc; 03-22-2011 at 09:40 PM.

  12. #102
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    Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion but how you express it says a lot about you as a person. You can say you don't personally accept that there is any validity in the idea of metal toxicity and doubt that the test will reveal anything and still hold on to your integrity. The behaviour I found inexcusable was the snide comments between certain folk which reminded me of what I'd more expect to find in a school yard with two older children sniggering and pointing at another child they think is a fool.

    I am not a fool and I am not rude. Neither am I American and I am beginning to see that as a blessing if this is how you offer 'support' to others. To suggest that I am desperate and just wanting to be agreed with adds further insult as I have confirmed several times that all I was doing was passing on information and relating my experiences. I'm a big girl now and well able to handle a difference of opinion. However, after several attempts to ignore childish and rude behaviour I finally ran out of patience.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreaM View Post
    all I was doing was passing on information and relating my experiences.
    Please don't pass on anything listed with Quackwatch. Please.

    Also, you might like this group which is very good and people are very knowledgeable there...

    http://www.scoliosis-support.org/index.php
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndreaM View Post
    Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion but how you express it says a lot about you as a person. You can say you don't personally accept that there is any validity in the idea of metal toxicity and doubt that the test will reveal anything and still hold on to your integrity. The behaviour I found inexcusable was the snide comments between certain folk which reminded me of what I'd more expect to find in a school yard with two older children sniggering and pointing at another child they think is a fool.

    I am not a fool and I am not rude. Neither am I American and I am beginning to see that as a blessing if this is how you offer 'support' to others. To suggest that I am desperate and just wanting to be agreed with adds further insult as I have confirmed several times that all I was doing was passing on information and relating my experiences. I'm a big girl now and well able to handle a difference of opinion. However, after several attempts to ignore childish and rude behaviour I finally ran out of patience.
    Yes, unfortunately, we have resident bullies who feel it is their duty to get on their soapboxes and tell everybody how backwards and ignorant they are. Apparently it's what they learn in college these days. It really makes one question the need to send their kids off to these institutions of "higher learning" where they can observe live porn in their classrooms under the guise of "science". Science...not what it used to be.

    I would be very interested to hear back on your journey. Doctors really don't consider the small percentage of people who react negatively to things. My daughter was given double the dose of a dangerous blackbox drug because her prestigious doctor insisted that she wouldn't have any side-effects and then double-dosed her without my knowledge even though I was terribly concerned of putting her on this drug. She was on the same dose as 200+ pound men, and she's a thin ballerina. When the complications occurred, he washed his hands of her. A big learning lesson for me, and still trying to fix the damage he inflicted on her. So yes, if you are one who reacts negatively to things, you have to learn to do things differently. I had to look long and hard with lots of research to find a doctor that I trusted to treat my daughter. And the qualifications that I used to choose this doctor were completely different from what I used for the first.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Please don't pass on anything listed with Quackwatch
    I'm afraid I do not give Quackwatch the elevated status it appears to have here. Their opinion matters nothing to me. I have seen too many people and organisations attacked and attempts made to put them out of business for no other reason than they are helping those - and with considerable success - who have been failed miserably by the established medical profession. As one who has been failed herself, I am trying to educate the medical profession in the hope of helping those who come after and suffer the same fate.

    Thank goodness for people who ignore all the ridicule and persevere regardless. They are the ones who eventually bring about changes for the better in the way people are treated.

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