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Is it Crazy to travel to New York for an Opinion?

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  • #16
    Here's my 2 cents on minimally invasive, as well as Dr. Errico/NYU doctors.

    I had surgery 5 months ago with Errico and I would personally recommend him over Lonner. I think they are both talented/experienced/amazing but Errico's additional years experience and the fact that he's the chief of spine surgery at NYU would have me lean towards him over Lonner.

    As far as a 2nd opinion, yes - go for it. It's not that far and it's worth it. I would go with the best of the best and don't look back (no pun intended).

    As for minimally invasive or not - go with what the best possible surgeon recommends. If he recommends the "normal" way, then so be it. I just feel like why are we trying to convince doctors to do this surgery another method - just go with what they think is best for YOU. It's worth asking the question regardless so you feel you have your bases covered.

    -Jamie

    Comment


    • #17
      Lisa, YES get other opinions. Everyone has to do their own research and in the end go with their gut. Just be informed. The key is lots of research, talking to doctors and finding the one you feel most comfortable with and TRUST. That is half the battle, and helps with anxiety of the surgery. I wish you the best of luck!!!

      I agree totally with Jamie. I am going to stick my neck out here-remember that this is just MY opinion. I mean absolutely no disrespect for minimally invasive surgery; there is definitely a place for it. But we are having surgery for medical reasons, not cosmetic. And muscles do heal.
      Usually by the time we finally relent and agree to surgery, we are in so much pain that a scar is the last thing we worry about. My goal was for long term correction and pain relief. Period. I could care less about a scar. (And this is not because I'm frumpy, or I am going to hide it. I wear bikinis and sundresses, and I am in very good physical shape.) But a scar does not define me or make me feel unattractive in any way. If anything, it enhances my "beauty" with a nice straight back. It will also give me an opportunity to discuss the wonders of modern medicine with people who may have or know someone else with scoliosis.
      If I was having a small fusion, I may have considered it, but for complex surgeries-I would want everything in full view if I were the doc. Over and over I hear patients say that the doc found more than they thought while they were in there. I wonder if they would see everything, or if they could possibly miss something, if the surgery is done with the minimally invasive technique... Just my mind wondering, but that is not a risk I would want to take. The goal is just ONE surgery, not a revision later.
      Just remember why we have the surgery. And be open minded. The beauty of it is that we are all in control of our own destiny and can choose what is best for US, not someone else. Thank goodness for choices, no matter what we choose!!
      Jenee'-52
      Bend, Oregon

      Braced 3 years in high school
      Lumbar 70'+ Thoracic 70'+
      I had 3" shrinkage in 6 months...

      Surgery Jan 10, 2011
      9 hours
      T3 to S1 with pelvic fixation
      Both curves now 35'

      Possible revison for Flatback Syndrome
      Non-fusion
      Loose/broken hardware-awaiting CT results

      Here is the link to my before and after pics..
      http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt......&highlight=

      Comment


      • #18
        Jenee,
        You expressed my opinion about minimally invasive spine surgery so well that I won't add to it. I can't imagine how Dr. Lenke could have removed arthritis, derotated my spine, inserted cages, osteotomies, screws and rods without having full acess to my spine. He is the president of the Scoliosis Reasearch Society so I wasn!t about to question his method since he is always researching better methods and instrumentation.
        Karen

        Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
        Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
        70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
        Rib Hump-GONE!
        Age-60 at the time of surgery
        Now 66
        Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
        Retired Kdgn. Teacher

        See photobucket link for:
        Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
        Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
        tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
        http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

        Comment


        • #19
          oh my gosh...
          i cannot believe it

          minimally invasive is NOT for cosmetic reasons..it is to spare some trauma to the body...especially to muscles!!! it has nothing to do with wanting a small scar...and anyone familiar with the surgery would have known that! opinions given out of zero knowledge don't seem worth much to me!!!
          at least know what it is you are rejecting!
          i would not want to go to any surgeon who didn't at least know about the newest methods...including minimally invasive...and who qualifies for what..and WHY!
          it is very likely the future of many kinds of surgeries!
          anyone who had arthroscopic knee surgery vs the years they cut knees open and caused a lot more pain would understand the whole idea.

          i have no vested interest...doesn't matter to me if folks would rather be cut more than necessary! i own no stock in medical companies...
          i think it a disservice to not let folks know about what is out there...
          AND...i wouldn't trust any surgeon not interested in the newest most innovative method....that is why i flew 3000 miles each way to investigate it!! and my spine caused me lots of pain for taking the trip!

          i would match Lonner to any scoli surgeon anywhere...younger surgeons...with over 15 years experience...might be preferred to those older...by some people
          but to each their own....

          jess
          Last edited by jrnyc; 03-09-2011, 02:19 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            i have no vested interest...doesn't matter to me if folks would rather be cut more than necessary! i own no stock in medical companies...
            i think it a disservice to not let folks know about what is out there...
            AND...i wouldn't trust any surgeon not interested in the newest most innovative method....that is why i flew 3000 miles each way to investigate it!! and my spine caused me lots of pain for taking the trip!

            i would match Lonner to any scoli surgeon anywhere...younger surgeons...with over 15 years experience...might be preferred to those older...by some people
            but to each their own....

            jess[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

            For the record, I am not discounting Dr. Lonner - I was just saying if I were to choose I'd go for his "boss" . I had a great experience with Errico.

            As for the minimally invasive technique, I agree that it's NOT about cosmetics or the scar, it's not "cutting into you" more than necessary - BUT hasn't it been proven that that's what IS necessary to correct scoliosis? And isn't it ok to just accept that's how it needs to be done? I think it's smart to challenge the practice of this surgery but lets not get crazy - if the specialists are saying this is what needs to be done, how much longer should people wait until minimally invasive has proven itself? When you're ready, you're ready.

            Comment


            • #21
              Until someone on this Forum has Minimally Invasive Surgery and I'm talking about us older women with arthritic spurs, DDD, ruptured discs, spondylithesis, etc, and comes back on to say it is successful, then I personally wouldn't give it too much credence. I certainly wouldn't want to be a guinea pig. I believe in the tried and true methods. Just my opinion.
              Sally
              Diagnosed with severe lumbar scoliosis at age 65.
              Posterior Fusion L2-S1 on 12/4/2007. age 67
              Anterior Fusion L3-L4,L4-L5,L5-S1 on 12/19/2007
              Additional bone removed to decompress right side of L3-L4 & L4-L5 on 4/19/2010
              New England Baptist Hospital, Boston, MA
              Dr. Frank F. Rands735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/butterflyfive/

              "In God We Trust" Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God. Painful moments, trust God. Every moment, thank God.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jrnyc View Post
                oh my gosh...
                i cannot believe it

                opinions given out of zero knowledge don't seem worth much to me!!!
                jess
                Jess, I totally agree with you about people needing to know ALL their options. They must do their research, talk to different doctors, and make a choice based on what is right for their individual case. I have lived with this for almost 40 years, and have done just a little bit of my own research. I'm am not ignorant, nor do I have "opinions based on zero knowledge".

                I obviously think Lonner is a wonderful doctor, one of the very best. He has helped so many people here on the forum. But MI is NOT for everyone. His own site says he uses it to treat THORACIC scoliosis. For other types, and I quote from his site directly,

                "a combined approach with VATS and more traditional techniques may be required."

                He also states-

                " it has always been my top priority to provide the best care for my patients, not simply to use the latest technology. Even the "traditional" procedures have evolved over the last several years allowing us to achieve more correction of curvature and quicker return to full activites (often by 3-4 months). For this reason, I continue to perform more traditional surgical procedures because often they are the best option for successful treatment. If you or your child have thoracic scoliosis, we can discuss your specific case and find a treatment plan that is best for you."


                Even the best MI guy around still uses an "open" technique. I'm just saying that one needs to get all the facts for themselves. And from the mouth of the doctor, after an exam. Don't assume. I don't think it is fair to allude that EVERY case can be done in a certain way, and have someone expect a miracle. A T3-sacrum fusion and pelvic fixation can't ALWAYS be fixed minimally...

                Minimally Invasive surgery may be still in it's infancy, but I DO fully expect to see more and more of it done in the future. It would have been nice to be advanced another 20-30 years for those of us needing it now...who knows WHAT they will be doing by then!!!
                Jenee'-52
                Bend, Oregon

                Braced 3 years in high school
                Lumbar 70'+ Thoracic 70'+
                I had 3" shrinkage in 6 months...

                Surgery Jan 10, 2011
                9 hours
                T3 to S1 with pelvic fixation
                Both curves now 35'

                Possible revison for Flatback Syndrome
                Non-fusion
                Loose/broken hardware-awaiting CT results

                Here is the link to my before and after pics..
                http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt......&highlight=

                Comment


                • #23
                  never said it was for everyone!
                  i suggested folks read about it to know WHAT they are rejecting!
                  anyone who can say it is for cosmetic reasons hasn't read diddly squat...obviously!

                  SOMEONE on the forum has had the procedure...Anne (Admoul) has had the surgery with Dr Lonner...so have others whose names i don't know...as well as hundreds of Dr Anand's patients...the ones i spoke to on the phone were in their 60's and 70's...it is NOT a surgery that is limited to the young!
                  and it is NOT for "guinea pigs"...that is a lack of knowledge speaking!
                  it is most definitely in use in older patients' complicated cases with bad discs, hypokyphosis, spurs, etc...


                  i do not worship Dr Lenke

                  and i know exactly what Dr Lonner does with LUMBAR minimally invasive....his site is not fully updated on the subject...
                  my last visit with him confirmed that...when he agreed that he would do the procedure for me...with my degenerative discs, listhesis, hypokyphosis, spinal stenosis, spinal arthritis, etc etc
                  i am NOT referring to thoracic minimally invasive, which has been around for years...i am referring to LUMBAR

                  before one rejects a NEW approach, one should research it first...those who knock it haven't done so...or they would never suggest it is done to prevent large scars!!

                  i would never opt for any other kind of surgery...if/when i go thru with scoli surgery!
                  if i had opted for full ankle surgery in 1990, rather than arthroscopic, i wouldn't be walking at all now!
                  i trusted innovations then the way i trust them now...

                  i am not saying i agree with Dr Anand..he feels it is the ONLY scoli surgery that should be practiced any more...
                  i am saying learn what it is before you knock it...and learn what it does!

                  jess
                  Last edited by jrnyc; 03-09-2011, 04:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Jess,
                    I am just curious as to why you are waiting to have surgery since it seems from several of your posts that you are in constant pain and it has affected your quality of life.
                    Karen
                    Karen

                    Surgery-Jan. 5, 2011-Dr. Lenke
                    Fusion T-4-sacrum-2 cages/5 osteotomies
                    70 degree thoracolumbar corrected to 25
                    Rib Hump-GONE!
                    Age-60 at the time of surgery
                    Now 66
                    Avid Golfer & Tap Dancer
                    Retired Kdgn. Teacher

                    See photobucket link for:
                    Video of my 1st Day of Golf Post-Op-3/02/12-Bradenton, FL
                    Before and After Picture of back 1/7/11
                    tap dancing picture at 10 mos. post op 11/11/11-I'm the one on the right.
                    http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k630/pottoff2/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      dear Karen
                      i have mobility concerns..though i know many kind folks with fusion to the sacrum or pelvis on forum have assured me not to worry...
                      i now have very bad knees as well....
                      and i have a few personal family reasons...
                      also, the names of the.... not good result folks...are stuck in my head...

                      but i flew 6000 miles round trip to see up close what the new lumbar procedure is about...besides reading Anand's website and watching videos of the procedure several times..and talking to some of his patients...and writing to Anne on forum..and speaking to 2 other patients of Dr Lonner who had it...and discussing it with Dr Lonner...
                      i never would pay to fly all those miles, airfare, hotel, etc, for a surgeon i didn't think had something to say...or put myself thru the pain of flying....even though i love LA!!
                      i think Anand is a good surgeon...though i don't agree that MI is the ONLY scoli surgery that should be done anymore (that is how universally applicable he says it is!)
                      (he is now, ummmm...quite condescending about the "old" method of scoli surgery)
                      i do believe MI is the future...the way arthroscopic has become for knees, ankles, etc...the way using cow & pig parts for heart surgery is...just another important innovation in the forward march of medicine...

                      best regards...
                      jess

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I don't think it's crazy. I know people from this forum who have traveled quite far to NY for this. For myself, I wanted to see the best. I saw one local guy here in NJ (and promptly eliminated him), then saw Dr. Boachie and Dr. Neuwirth in NY. I went with Dr. Neuwirth. Philly isn't really that far from NY.
                        __________________________________________
                        Debbe - 50 yrs old

                        Milwalkee Brace 1976 - 79
                        Told by Dr. my curve would never progress

                        Surgery 10/15/08 in NYC by Dr. Michael Neuwirth
                        Pre-Surgury Thorasic: 66 degrees
                        Pre-Surgery Lumbar: 66 degrees

                        Post-Surgery Thorasic: 34 degrees
                        Post-Surgery Lumbar: 22 degrees

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          i don't think that crazy to tavel for a an opinion.
                          Kara
                          25
                          Brace 4-15-05-5-25-06
                          Posterior Spinal Fusion 3-10-10
                          T4-L2
                          Before 50T
                          After 20T

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jrnyc View Post
                            i am completely shocked!
                            Ditto! I have talked to a lot of people (mostly parents who were considering Dr. Boachie as a surgeon for their teen, etc.) and I have never heard anyone say they paid nothing - or that they were told they would pay nothing.

                            Quite to the contrary, last I heard he was not taking insurance and at the very least, after any reimbursement, the patient could expect to pay a considerable amount out of pocket.

                            If he has made a complete turnaround on this issue, that is wonderful, but I am very surprised to hear this.
                            mariaf305@yahoo.com
                            Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                            Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                            https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                            http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Dr. Lonner

                              It's funny - whenever I see Dr. Betz for David's checkups, I seem to end up picking his brain about something or other. Last time we discussed tethering (a new procedure to replace VBS for larger curves) and I also happened to ask him what would happen when David 'aged out' of Shriners. My thoughts were that if he needed to be followed later in life for any reason he would need an adult scoliosis doctor. So I said to Dr. Betz 'well I guess you would recommend someone who would also be familiar with VBS since that is part of David's history - so ideally someone who treats both children and adults, is located in NY and is an excellent doctor' - so he smiled and said "yes, like Dr. Lonner".

                              P.S. We do the reverse in terms of travel - NY to Philly - and I don't find it to be bad at all - totally worth it to be with a doctor you trust completely IMHO.
                              Last edited by mariaf; 03-31-2011, 08:48 AM.
                              mariaf305@yahoo.com
                              Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                              Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                              https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                              http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                DeJa Vu

                                This discussion about MI surgery reminds me of similar discussions regarding VBS.

                                There will always be folks who do not embrace new technology right away and that's fine for them.

                                There are others who, after doing tons of research, interviewing doctors, learning about results of other patients so far, then decide that a particular procedure is best for them based on other alternatives available to them and their particular situation.

                                MI is not for everyone just the way VBS isn't for everyone - but for a select group of patients these procedures may turn out to be the best choice - only a patient and their doctor can decide.

                                BTW, I too was surprised that anyone would think a patient would choose MI for cosmetic reasons (i.e., scarring) - especially patients who have dealt with scoliosis a long time - scoliosis is a serious condition and I doubt most people are worried about how they will look in a bikini. Even when I had my C-sections the last thing I was worried about was scarring. Maybe I'm just not particularly vain, IDK, but I tend to think most people - when faced with serious medical decisions - have other things on their mind. Just my opinion.
                                mariaf305@yahoo.com
                                Mom to David, age 17, braced June 2000 to March 2004
                                Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently mid 20's)

                                https://www.facebook.com/groups/ScoliosisTethering/

                                http://pediatricspinefoundation.org/

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