progression in brace

[Ballet Mom]

To Pooka1: I think that he said that while pilates is good for anyone, girls who are flexible and do pilates, their scoliosis sometimes does worsen. I'm not sure that's what he meant, but that's kind of how I took it.

Gaack! My daughter is going to summer intensives this summer where Pilates is part of the program. Now I'm going to have to worry about that also. Sheesh! What to do...what to do....?

[Pooka1]

I think that he said that while pilates is good for anyone, girls who are flexible and do pilates, their scoliosis sometimes does worsen.

Yes but the question is whether the rate at which these kids doing pilates progress is different than the rate at which kids sitting on the couch eating ice cream progress. Without a very large, very well-controlled case study, nobody can know the answer to that, not a surgeon nor a bunny.

[Elisa]

To Elisa: Was your son wearing a brace when his curve progressed? If so, what kind of brace was he wearing? Did he go 15 months between x-rays? What were his measurements before the 110 degree progression? Sorry for all the questions!

As far as the "pretty" ballerina feet - I put my daughter in ballet when she was 5 because I thought she would like it. I actually wasn't thinking of her just doing ballet, but it just happened that way. I never, ever thought she would stick with it as long as she has. She just loves it and I know this because her feet hurt all the time, but she keeps going back for more!! Her feet don't look bad... yet!!!

When we first noticed his back was 'off' fifteen months ago we were sure it was from bad posture b/c he was spending a lot of time on the computer gaming as a lot of young boys do. It was actually our daughter who noticed that the right side of his back had a bit of a hump on it and again we were convinced he was leaning to the side b/c of his positioning. We took him to our GP and he made him do a forward bend test which made his right side protrude a bit more and he immediately diagnosed him with scoliosis and send him for x-rays. His first set came back at 47* and was immediately referred to a spine specialist. Six months later his curve was around 75* and x-rays the other day showed he was at 110*. I don't know if anyone else around here has had such fast progression but he is one of the extremely unlucky ones who's curve just went mad. No he was never braced, not b/c his curve was too big but b/c our incompetent medical system never got around to getting him in to see a spine specialist so maybe bracing would have halted the progression, maybe not, I don't know b/c we never had the opportunity to find out.

Ballet mom, our medical system is okay up here if you have 'normal' stuff wrong with you but if you have to see a specialist, especially a pediatric specialist, forget it, get in line and wait your turn. Or as hdhugger said, 'bleed to death in the waiting room' or something like that. Sad.

[Pooka1]

His first set came back at 47* and was immediately referred to a spine specialist. Six months later his curve was around 75* and x-rays the other day showed he was at 110*. I don't know if anyone else around here has had such fast progression but he is one of the extremely unlucky ones who's curve just went mad.

Well that is 28* in 6 months or almost 5*/month which is very fast.

What was the time between the 75* and the 110*?

[scolio1964]

Yes but the question is whether the rate at which these kids doing pilates progress is different than the rate at which kids sitting on the couch eating ice cream progress. Without a very large, very well-controlled case study, nobody can know the answer to that, not a surgeon nor a bunny.

You are right. I even spoke with her pilates teacher about it. I was trying to blame pilates because I felt like there had to be something or someone to blame. She explained that my daughter only does 1 hour of pilates a week and she didn't do it the whole month of December and didn't start it until October. She does ballet 5 days a week for about 20 hours a week and she's done that for a couple of years, minus the summer months. It's probably not the pilates that made her curve worse. There are so many things that it could be that I've just decided that if my daughter wants to continue with the pilates, that it's her choice. I don't want to take the things she loves away without REALLY knowing they were doing her harm in the first place. Unfortunately, we'll never know what made it worse, and if it stops or continutes progressing, we won't know what caused that either.

[Elisa]

Well that is 28* in 6 months or almost 5*/month which is very fast.

What was the time between the 75* and the 110*?

Those were the only three sets of x-rays Pooka so I really don't know. But remember, it was the chiro who brought up his second set of x-rays and it was he who measured the 75* but you and Ed both felt that it 'looked' closer to 85* to 90* remember?

[scolio1964]

To Elisa: I am so sorry about your son, but I am glad that he is on the emergency list. I hope that it doesn't take too long to have the surgery. I wish you the very best!!

[Pooka1]

You are right. I even spoke with her pilates teacher about it. I was trying to blame pilates because I felt like there had to be something or someone to blame. She explained that my daughter only does 1 hour of pilates a week and she didn't do it the whole month of December and didn't start it until October. She does ballet 5 days a week for about 20 hours a week and she's done that for a couple of years, minus the summer months. It's probably not the pilates that made her curve worse. There are so many things that it could be that I've just decided that if my daughter wants to continue with the pilates, that it's her choice. I don't want to take the things she loves away without REALLY knowing they were doing her harm in the first place. Unfortunately, we'll never know what made it worse, and if it stops or continutes progressing, we won't know what caused that either.

Yes I agree. It is very hard to "know" much in this area because it is damn near impossible to "show" anything in a rigorous way. A research colleague of mine likes to say, "Everybody KNOWS it but nobody SHOWS it." He was talking about something in my field but it could equally apply to bracing and PT and ballet and pilates as it related to progression in AIS.

[Pooka1]

Those were the only three sets of x-rays Pooka so I really don't know. But remember, it was the chiro who brought up his second set of x-rays and it was he who measured the 75* but you and Ed both felt that it 'looked' closer to 85* to 90* remember?

Yes that would make the progression rate >5* a month which would be the highest I have ever read about on this group or anywhere actually.

But I was just asking you how much time elapsed between the chiro radiographs and this week. Was it about four months?

[Ballet Mom]

Yes I agree. It is very hard to "know" much in this area because it is damn near impossible to "show" anything in a rigorous way. A research colleague of mine likes to say, "Everybody KNOWS it but nobody SHOWS it." He was talking about something in my field but it could equally apply to bracing and PT and ballet and pilates as it related to progression in AIS.

Yes, science certainly has its limitations!

[Pooka1]

Yes, science certainly has its limitations!

Yes it does but that doesn't mean nothing is known or shown. Plenty of things have been SHOWN to the point that it is perverse to deny them.

Science is still the only game in town for knowing anything real.

[Elisa]

To Elisa: I am so sorry about your son, but I am glad that he is on the emergency list. I hope that it doesn't take too long to have the surgery. I wish you the very best!!

Thank you. Considering he's got a crazy curve happening he really isn't in much pain at all and does do all his daily stuff pretty well which is bloody amazing to me. I wish you all the best with your daughter too and it sounds as though you're keeping a close eye on her. This forum has been invaluable to me and I'm sure it will be to you also.

[Elisa]

Yes that would make the progression rate >5* a month which would be the highest I have ever read about on this group or anywhere actually.

But I was just asking you how much time elapsed between the chiro radiographs and this week. Was it about four months?

My brain is pretty fried right now b/c of information overload from the Portland trip and they wanted to keep the x-ray cd's so I can't even look at the dates on them but I'm pretty sure those 'chiro' x-rays were more than four months ago for sure, probably closer to seven or eight months. I'll have to go back and scroll through my original thread.

[scolio1964]

Thank you. Considering he's got a crazy curve happening he really isn't in much pain at all and does do all his daily stuff pretty well which is bloody amazing to me. I wish you all the best with your daughter too and it sounds as though you're keeping a close eye on her. This forum has been invaluable to me and I'm sure it will be to you also.

I am glad that he's not in pain. Maybe those video games have kept him occupied!! My son is very addicted to the games. He has small scoliosis too and I will definitely keep an eye on him for sure. My family definitely has the scoli gene - as our doctor says!! I am just glad to talk to people who share the same struggles we do!!

[Elisa]

Okay, I went back and scrolled through my original thread where I posted the x-ray pics and this is what I came up with.

First set of x-rays: Oct. 29/09 = 47*

Second set of x-rays: about six months later (Apr. 2010?) chiro guess = 75* you guys say 85*

Third set of x-rays: January 20th. 2011 = 110*

The only accurate measurement I have is from January 20th. and the other two are rough guesses b/c I'm relying on memory, chiro measurement and guesses. I do wish I had asked doctor K. for specifics but it was one of those things that I missed unfortunately. I was dropped the halo-bomb and my mind went blank.

Edit: I dunno, that seems like a bit too much time between the second and third set of x-rays. I'll think about it tomorrow, I'm too tired tonight.