Changes in scoliosis treatment due to Scoliscore

[flerc]

I really doubt that idiopathic scoliosis has an only one ORIGINAL cause. Much of the current causes are well known but medical community have not demonstrated any interest in trying to avoid them in a non fusion way.
But of course idiopathic scoliosis must to have an original cause and may be in some cases the traction because FT. Miguel, I ask you here the same question I asked you some time ago. May you show us an IDIOPHATIC case treated in that way? Or FT surgery is only used in other kinds of scoliosis?

[LindaRacine]

My signature.... enough said.

[flerc]

Thanks you for your signature, warning us not to discuss with you.

[Pooka1]

Fer,

When the cause(s) of idiopathic scoliosis are actually found, we will not hear it first from a random layperson like manuel miguel running a .com site.

For a random person like that to get on this forum and say what he did makes him appear to be completely clueless. It is clear that he isn't able to follow along not only will the medical literature but also the lay literature.

[tata]

I am overwhelmed by all these posts but with the knowledge you all have, has anyone ever heard about the studies done in Europe in the 90's with neuro/biofeedback on scoliosis? There had been research on a device that was developed that could be worn constantly that gave input to the body to constantly correct muscle/posture and many studies showed success with this. Yet since there was no "interest from the medical community" so it really never went anywhere. My daughter's psychologist is in the process of contacting the inventor as we are thinking of trying this with her over the course of the next 9 months while we are in the wait mode for possible surgery. These studies were with idiopathic scoliosis.

marykay, do you refer to this research work, recently published and which won the Best Award Paper at Eurospine 2010?

Eur Spine J. 2011 Jul;20(7):1069-78. Epub 2011 Apr 16.
Abnormal activation of the motor cortical network in idiopathic scoliosis demonstrated by functional MRI.
Domenech J, García-Martí G, Martí-Bonmatí L, Barrios C, Tormos JM, Pascual-Leone A.
SourceOrthopedic Surgery Department, Hospital Arnau de Vilanova, Valencia, Spain, Julio.domenech@ucv.es.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21499781

If that's not the research you know about, could you please give us some more info?

I honestly think this could be the beginning of a way out to this multifactorial (apparently) pathology and, even though I've alrady gone through surgery, I'm deeply interested in the subjet. Thanks very much in advanced!

[flerc]

Sharon, I agree. In fact, I have discussed many times with M. Miguel and he seems to not understand about we are talking about. I was trying to alert Dr. Royo, because I think that probably that kind of surgery could be in fact useful to some cases, and probably he don't knows what M.M is saying around the world.

[tata]

I used to run into this problem when I was working with researchers - the researcher always felt that the only way to look at a problem was through their particular prism. So, I was working with biological psychologists. If I talked to them about something like, say, Alzheimer's or brain injury, the were only interested in what biological psychology had to say about it. There was not a single expert who focused on the disease itself, there were just all these different specialists looking at it through their one little prism.

It's the same thing with scoliosis. There isn't a generalist who deals with scoliosis, there are just all of these specialists who look at it through their skill set. Surgeons want to operate, geneticists want to test for genetics, physical therapists want to give exercise, etc. There's noone who is actually looking at the disorder itself and trying to see a unified big picture. At least, noone that I'm aware of. Other, you know, from patients and parents.

hdugger, I couldn't agree with you more on this. In my humble opinion, besides funding, that is the real reason why we're so far behind as to where we'd like to be in regarding finding the etiology and treatment for scoliosis.

Mind you, that's the story (or even history) of life, isn't it???

Let me just add that I do like most of your comments. You always make an effort to explain as best as you can what you know/think with respect towards those whose thoughts you might not share.

[Pooka1]

@tata

Marykay posted the references and they were not as advertized nor were they related to what you posted.

What you posted is interesting but it is not obvious if the fmri differences were causative or just correlative with scoliosis. And even if they are causative, there is no obvious cure for that. So we better hope it isn't complex brain neuropathology causing scoliosis.

[Pooka1]

For the elebenty millionth time. . .

The reason surgeons do surgery is because it is the only proven treatment modality, NOT because it is all they know.

It's like saying car mechanics always just want to fix car problems because that is all they know. The point that cars break and people with scoliosis need help is ignored yet is the entire issue.

I have always been puzzled by that mode of thinking here.

[flerc]

For the elebenty millionth time. . .

The reason surgeons do surgery is because it is the only proven treatment modality, NOT because it is all they know.

It's like saying car mechanics always just want to fix car problems because that is all they know. The point that cars break and people with scoliosis need help is ignored yet is the entire issue.

I have always been puzzled by that mode of thinking here.

If we understand as proven modality, a method that may reduce any curve in a very much significant way in a very short time, regardless how much satisfactory may be or not that method taking into account other issues, yes, fusion is up to day the only one. Maybe even that surgery remains for ever as the only kind of solution for some cases. But nobody may say that are not enough reasons to try something really different.
Surgeons, we may say as we were talking, are not trying even other kind of surgery.

I don’t know if surgeon knows to do something different to surgery. They have a great (surely incomplete) knowledge, but if a new and very much effective non surgical method arise, maybe surgeons would not be the professionals implementing such solution, maybe they should to derive to a physiatrist

But of course, surgeons does what they know to do, and they don’t know to do something else. As I know they can not perform a PT sesion. They may learn, but they don’t have the enough knowledge and expertise. If a mathematician, wants the same job as a physicist in a nuclear power station, his knowledge and expertise would not be enough.
But regardless what surgeons are doing or not, the medical community are not trying to give a better solution, since so many years ago.

[tata]

Thanks. It's not a native skill, but I've learned to (mostly) *not* post if I'm doing nothing but defending my position.

Shame that doesn't seem to be a rule of thumb always around here...

[Pooka1]

Fer,

Nobody is preventing anyone from trying nonsurgical treatments. In fact people have been trying them for hundreds and hundreds of years. But surgery is the only treatment left standing when looking at the evidence.

It is an interesting question about who will find a better solution first, the surgeons or the PhD researchers working on etiology. Even if the researchers find the cause it couls still be years until they find a cure. So my guess is that the surgeons will find some improvement first despite the seemingly small number of those guys doing research on that.

Who knows. What seems obvious is that folks with no relevant training have failed to find anything. No surprise there.

[flerc]

Sharon, surgeons always says that nothing except what they do may work up to day. Even the unacceptable ‘Wait to be worst’
(watch and wait). Much people around the world, even in your country http://scoliosistreatmentalternative...t-for-tsunami/ are not satisfied with the solution given by surgeons (Wait to be worst, rigid braces (up to day), Wait to be worst again/ fusion, drugs < -> fusion)
It’s really unacceptable that in this century medical community continues saying that there are not enough knowledge and evidences that other ways must to be explored. May they say the same about non fusion surgeries? If surgeons say that only they and PhD researchers have a great (incomplete as everyone) knowledge, they have not idea about what they are talking about. We have a problem and what an interested part as surgeons are, may say is not a proof of anything.
And medical community is not trying to solve the problem. Solving Problem is a discipline really complex. Research is only one of the activities that must to be performed.

[flerc]

And medical community is not trying to solve the problem. Solving Problem is a discipline really complex. Research is only one of the activities that must to be performed.

If medical community even the great resources they have, because a lack of Problem Solving concepts and expertise, or a lack of interest or other factors, is unable to find a non surgical solution, they should not discredit professionals trying that kind of solution and should to find an effective non fusion surgery and other achievements as the way to restore the flexibility lost by fusion and help people after surgery in all ways that may be possible.

[flerc]

What might a "good" treatment look like? Well, it might look like Betz's vertebral stapling. It's surgery, but it's not terrible surgery, and it let's the spine be a spine (which is really the minimum requirement). Or it might look like torso rotation, which doesn't require an enormous commitment and which can reduce (not just hold) curves. Or it might look like something else. Neither of these are perfect - they really only work well on small curves in young people - but they're heading in the right direction.

Exactly, in in the right direction!. But this attempts should not to arise from some individuals as Betz. It should to be gestated from an Organization with that purpose in mind. That is what is not happening and seems that will never happen.