Page 1 of 17 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 241

Thread: Changes in scoliosis treatment due to Scoliscore

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,090

    Changes in scoliosis treatment due to Scoliscore

    There is a huge pot of funds that any number of groups would like to get their hands on. It's the budget for treatment of scoliosis with bracing. Very roughly, if there are 30,000 braces being used in any given year, that's roughly a ninety million dollar brace market, using an approximate average cost of $3,000 per brace.

    I remember the bracing funding has even been mentioned by the Braist trial administrator as a source of funding for childhood obesity treatment.

    Axial Biotech is trying to sell the idea of every young scoli patient (in the future, when all racial databases are set up) taking a $2,500 genetic test. How are they going to sell this to insurance companies, when medical funds are actually limited and not limitless like lots of people believe?

    (Axial Biotech, for those who do not know, has partnered with DePuy Spine, the second largest spine company in the world to exclusively market, sell and distribute the Scoliscore test. DePuy Spine is a division of Johnson & Johnson).

    That's where the design of the test comes in. Instead of designing the test to determine which patients will progress past thirty degrees, which would help determine who would benefit from bracing, they have designed it so it instead will determine which scoliosis patients will reach surgical territory with a large deformity. (Reminiscent of the non-treatment plan at Our Lady's Hospital in Dublin, Ireland and yes, we did send our spine surgeons over there to investigate their "treatment" program.)

    As far as I can tell, they are planning on having 75 percent of scoliosis patients not get treated with conventional methods and treating the remaining 25% of the scoli patient population with surgical methods.

    How does that 75 percent of scoliosis patients feel, knowing that their curve could well progress from 20 or 25 degrees and minimally noticeable to a very noticeable deformity ...without treatment? And of course, there's always a margin of error, so some small percentage of those who are told they won't reach the surgical level will increase to surgery anyway since they have designed it not to be 100% inclusive.

    I suggest the scoli parent population needs to become informed and learn what this test actually means for them because Johnson & Johnson has lots of power and the means and methods to make it happen. And unless you're vocal, it's leading to no treatment for 75 percent of scoli patients. (Until you progress in adulthood, of course, due to the large curve you were left with due to the no treatment plan).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,090
    A presentation from the inventor of the Scoliscore test which absolutely proves what I am stating in the post above:

    "AIS predictive test could eliminate inefficiencies
    in the mild scoliosis group at great individual and
    aggregate savings." Pg. 4

    Paradigm shift describes a shift from bracing to no bracing and early fusion/fusionless surgeries with most cases of scoliosis not treated. Pg. 5

    http://www.vinzenzgruppe.at/vinzenzg...3Ogilivie.pdf/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,090
    I will take the liberty of copying my post from another thread here:

    "The main issue with the test is this...if it's accurate and works, it's okay to use it. Unfortunately, it obviously doesn't work well enough. It lets kids progress to at least forty degrees and lets many of them progress to surgery anyway without treatment. As far as I'm concerned, it would be a travesty to use this test as the standard of care.

    It's like doctors stating that the odds of that colon polyp changing into a cancerous tumor is low, and therefore we won't remove it. And if you're one of the unlucky ones that has a polyp that turns into colon cancer, well...we have surgery to fix it. I'm sure no one will mind having a colostomy. What a bizarre way to conduct medicine. As far as I'm concerned it's a "scientific" way to remove the cost of bracing and office visits from the medical system. And it's not right.

    And did anyone notice that the inventors of the Scoliscore test have a vision with no place for bracing in the future? And much less treatment of all cases. How is that okay? Bracing has saved my daughter and I resent any scientist stating that others will not be able to receive that same treatment that worked perfectly well for her and avoided surgery."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,801
    Hi...

    I'm having dinner tonight with Ken Ward. Anyone have questions they want answered?

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,801
    Hi...

    The dinner and presentation were fabulous. Axial Biotech is expanding the criteria a bit, in the very near future, to at least include Hispanics. I have to say the data are quite impressive.

    --Linda

    KenWard.jpg
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballet Mom View Post
    I will take the liberty of copying my post from another thread here:

    "The main issue with the test is this...if it's accurate and works, it's okay to use it. Unfortunately, it obviously doesn't work well enough. It lets kids progress to at least forty degrees and lets many of them progress to surgery anyway without treatment. As far as I'm concerned, it would be a travesty to use this test as the standard of care.

    It's like doctors stating that the odds of that colon polyp changing into a cancerous tumor is low, and therefore we won't remove it. And if you're one of the unlucky ones that has a polyp that turns into colon cancer, well...we have surgery to fix it. I'm sure no one will mind having a colostomy. What a bizarre way to conduct medicine. As far as I'm concerned it's a "scientific" way to remove the cost of bracing and office visits from the medical system. And it's not right.

    And did anyone notice that the inventors of the Scoliscore test have a vision with no place for bracing in the future? And much less treatment of all cases. How is that okay? Bracing has saved my daughter and I resent any scientist stating that others will not be able to receive that same treatment that worked perfectly well for her and avoided surgery."
    My god!! Is obvious that the medical community are not so worry about the scoliosis problem but.. after a century, this is the only new kind of ‘solution’ they have for us????

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,291
    It's like doctors stating that the odds of that colon polyp changing into a cancerous tumor is low, and therefore we won't remove it. And if you're one of the unlucky ones that has a polyp that turns into colon cancer, well...we have surgery to fix it. ballet mom
    Having administered anesthesia for endoscopy for many years I have never once heard a physician say this. All visible polyps are usually removed unless there are too many to remove at one time--which occasionally happens.

    I cannot see this as a comparison to Scoliscore. Cancerous polyps are hidden scoliosis can be observed and decisions made.
    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,801
    Fierc...

    You may think that a brace saved your daughter, but there's no way you'll ever know that for certain. Your daughter's curve might never have progressed, regardless of whether she was braced. To date, none of the patients with AIS and a low ScoliScore, have progressed more than 5 degrees.

    --Linda
    Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Dilbert
    I'm sarcastic... what's your super power? --Unknown
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
    Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If you've signed up and are having trouble posting, please check your spam folder. An email was sent to the email address which you subscribed. You have to follow the instructions in that email. Done that and still having trouble posting? Contact Joe O'Brien at jpobrien@scoliosis.org.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Ocker View Post
    Having administered anesthesia for endoscopy for many years I have never once heard a physician say this. All visible polyps are usually removed unless there are too many to remove at one time--which occasionally happens.

    I cannot see this as a comparison to Scoliscore. Cancerous polyps are hidden scoliosis can be observed and decisions made.
    The OP has a long history of making counterfactual statements. Some are quite stunning. This is merely one more instance.

    This is yet another textbook illustration of the stark difference between intelligence and knowledge. No matter how intelligent you are, if you haven't mastered the fact case it just doesn't matter.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    You may think that a brace saved your daughter, but there's no way you'll ever know that for certain. Your daughter's curve might never have progressed, regardless of whether she was braced.
    And if a vertebral fusion is done in a child with a growing but still small curve because the scolioscore said that nothing could stop it, you'll never know if it was wrong and surgery could be avoided.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by LindaRacine View Post
    Fierc...

    You may think that a brace saved your daughter, but there's no way you'll ever know that for certain. Your daughter's curve might never have progressed, regardless of whether she was braced. To date, none of the patients with AIS and a low ScoliScore, have progressed more than 5 degrees.
    Linda,

    To my knowledge, flerc never mentioned whether his daughter wore a brace. Maybe she did.

    And I think flerc said her curve was about 60* and she is skeletally mature (going by chrono age).

    There is no rational pushback to be made on Scoliscore with the data in hand.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    And if a vertebral fusion is done in a child with a growing but still small curve because the scolioscore said that nothing could stop it, you'll never know if it was wrong and surgery could be avoided.
    Nobody to my knowledge besides myself has suggested doing surgery on a small curve with a high Scoliscore.

    I am not familiar with the data for the outcome of the kids with very high scoliscores but if it is everyone will reach surgical range then I am not sure it is ethical NOT to operate when the curve is smaller. Maybe only a few vertebrae could be fused at that point at the apex. If not then they have to balance stopping a curve that WILL get to surgical range and crankshafting.

    Nobody said the choice has to be easy. It's not like there are benevolent spirits looking out for these kids. Life is very clearly unfair.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Ocker View Post

    I cannot see this as a comparison to Scoliscore. Cancerous polyps are hidden scoliosis can be observed and decisions made.
    If the purpose of the decision that scolioscore suggest when scoliosis is observed is to reduce costs, why instead of eliminate braces, they are not looking for something cheaper than vertebral fusion??

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    If the purpose of the decision that scolioscore suggest when scoliosis is observed is to reduce costs, why instead of eliminate braces, they are not looking for something cheaper than vertebral fusion??
    The reason to eliminate unnecessary bracing is moral and ethical concern for the children. Bracing is not an easy treatment. Unnecessary bracing should be eliminated on human kindness grounds.

    Saving the cost of unnecessary bracing is a distant second reason.

    Apart from unnecessary bracing, it is hard for some to accept the possibility that that there may be no effective conservative treatment. That could be the case. No amount of misguided attacks on researchers as in the OP would change that reality.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    The reason to eliminate unnecessary bracing is moral and ethical concern for the children. Bracing is not an easy treatment.
    vertebral fusion is an easy treatment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Apart from unnecessary bracing, it is hard for some to accept the possibility that that there may be no effective conservative treatment.
    Or may be hard for some to accept that could be something better than vertebral fussion and the medical comunity is not looking for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    No amount of misguided attacks on researchers as in the OP would change that reality.
    The reality as I know is that the first vertebral fussion (maybe not for scoliosis) was made exactly one century ago.
    Sorry if someone feel what I say as an attack, but I hope something different from medical community as so many other people.. a real better solution and no something like that .. how many time we must to wait?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •