Questions fo rour Clear Chiro, Smith

[Pooka1]

Just a few points if I might...

There's a reason scientists don't do their research inside a wrestling ring

Yes. They are working in an environment of knowledge, experience and training that is completely absent from lay fora.

Scientists are not constantly assaulted with couterfactual material from lay, arm chair folks with no training in the subject area and no experience with being evidence-based but yet expound endlessly and ignorantly. Scientists are not constantly having to put out the fires of ignorance practically every damn post from certain quarters. Scientists surround themselves with other scientists with approriate training and a track record of rational thought.

All that is largely missing in a lay forum to one degree or another.

As to why I follow certain lines of research and not others - it's some barely conscious set of instincts, propensities, and observations.

Is that the main reason?

So you would recommend the armchair biochemistry posts to new confused parents looking for factual material who haven't concluded that their kids wouldn't benefit from that material?

[hdugger]

Yes, a lay forum by definition is not a scientific compound.

But I've done much of my best thinking over the years in lay forums of one kind or another - I've researched cancer treatments, I've developed theories, I've started businesses, I've figured out how to homeschool my kid. I credit all of that to exposing my ideas to unexpected (and sometimes aggravating) ideas and opinions. I got far less stimulation in the academic setting. But, of course, that's just me.

So, I welcome the variety of opinions, regardless of how informed they are. Informed people, I find, often run in a rut. They get so used to their language and framework that they can no longer look outside their viewpoint. What I *don't* welcome is the psychological minefield. It makes it hard to think clearly.

As to what I allow new parents to look at, that's not really my decision to make for them. If I *had* to censor anything on the site, I think I've made it pretty clear that I'd censor the brace bashing. I'm always surprised to find opinions-stated-as-fact about the efficacy of bracing outside of the research areas, and I do worry that parents will somehow latch on to that without talking to their doctor about it.

Beyond that, if it's Dingo you're talking about, he keeps his research posts in the research section, he doesn't try to browbeat people into accepting his ideas as a treatment plan, and he makes it abundantly clear that he's just a parent interpreting the results. Any adult who is swayed against their will by running across his posts probably isn't safe going out on the internet at all.

Edit: I actually just wrote a series of armchair biochemistry posts about the effects of Vitamin D on scoliosis, and I've done zero research and have zero understanding of the area. I would think that those kinds of posts are to be expected in forums where lay people talk to each other.

[Karen Ocker]

hdugger, We are only describing our experiences not trying to harrass anyone.

hdugger:
Your son is a legal adult with a significant curve most certainly to progress. We've never seen a curve of that magnitude stop dead in its tracks. What does he want for himself? How does he feel about his deformity. I remember how I felt.

Every person on this forum that had surgery would have preferred something much easier. So many of us tried and spend money on alternatives. My original surgery was in 1956. A more primitive procedure with modest correction. At 60 I had a revision and, until the last year before the revision, when I became short of breath, I was very comfortable and functional---but suffered my whole life psychologically from the residual deformity. If your son's curve is ~ 60 then he is entering into the area when pulmonary effects begin insiduously. This is seen in younger children and I have read this is the scientific literature. Pulmonary function is measurable so it's not amatter of "opinion".
The bottom line is fear. This is natural. If it were cancer tomorrow wouldn't be soon enough. Somehow, with progressive scoliosis denial hangs on a long time.

[hdugger]

I am not suffering from denial or being guided by fear. I am researching for my son so that he can evaluate his options with our doctor's guidance. I wish my son's post surgical prognosis looked brighter then it does and that surgery were not more likely to cause then to cure his problems, and I sincerely wish that those without the necessary medical training to evaluate his situation would let up on both the psychological and medical evaluations. Simply, you are not qualified.

[Ballet Mom]

hdugger,

I just wanted to let you know that I have run across medical material that stated that a small percentage of curves greater than 50 degrees never increase in adulthood. I believe it was about 30%. If I ever run across it again, I'll post if for you.

[Pooka1]

Simply, you are not qualified.

Is anyone qualified to expound on biochemistry on this group with exception of Pnuttro? And yet you won't go on record with that.

We also have that same lay parent going much further in efficacy claims about an area of PT research than the actual author of those papers. It's like we are on Candid Camera at times with this stuff.

You appear to be very selective (and inscrutable) in your criticism of who is competent and and who isn't. Or maybe my brain is just too small to see the pattern. (smiley face)

[Pooka1]

hdugger,

I just wanted to let you know that I have run across medical material that stated that a small percentage of curves greater than 50 degrees never increase in adulthood. I believe it was about 30%. If I ever run across it again, I'll post if for you.

There are 3 or 4 people just in this little sandbox whose curves were that large and hung there, for decades in some cases.

But I doubt it is 30% as then it would be impossible to explain the present paradigm.

[hdugger]

Thanks, BalletMom. I'd appreciate that.

I suspect that he will progress to surgical territory within the next 10 years. I'd just like to figure out before that happens 1) how to ward off the post surgical neck complications or, barring that 2) give him the tools to hold off the progression and surgery for as long as he can.

[hdugger]

Is anyone qualified to expound on biochemistry on this group with exception of Pnuttro? And yet you won't go on record with that.

I feel like I'm repeating this daily. Anyone is qualified to broadly discuss the research. I'm even allowing you to discuss the bracing research, even though you don't have the necessary qualifications to do so (and even though I wish you'd restrain those discussions to the research forum.

*No one* here is qualified to 1) make a specific treatment recommendation of other people and 2) diagnose the psychological problems in those other people that might keep them from accepting the first diagnosis.

The first thing is called a discussion, the second is called practicing medicine without a license.

Dear God, our *doctor* isn't even recommending surgery! Maybe he's being driven by denial and fear as well. I'll be sure to ask him next time I see him.

[Pooka1]

Anyone is qualified to broadly discuss the research.

What if they are wrong upwards of 90% of the time? Are they still helping?

[Ballet Mom]

What if they are wrong upwards of 90% of the time? Are they still helping?

I haven't seen much of what you state concur with what I read, or what my daughters orthopedists state. Are you still helping? Perhaps you should find a new hobby.

[Pooka1]

I haven't seen much of what you state concur with what I read, or what my daughters orthopedists state. Are you still helping? Perhaps you should find a new hobby.

Are you as sure about that as you are sure about the following claims you made?

1. People are recruited into medical studies as soon as they cross the building threshold.

2. The RCC didn't persecute Galileo (despite the fact that they apologized for it).

3. Linda claimed Spinecor was the largest contributor to NSF?

There is a pattern here.

[hdugger]

Children! (stamps foot)

[Ballet Mom]

Are you as sure about that as you are sure about the following claims you made?

1. People are recruited into medical studies as soon as they cross the building threshold.

2. The RCC didn't persecute Galileo (despite the fact that they apologized for it).

3. Linda claimed Spinecor was the largest contributor to NSF?

There is a pattern here.

The pattern is that you make up anything you want to fit your little warped narrative in your mind.

[Pooka1]

Children! (stamps foot)

Oh all right <pout, pout>