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Thread: exercise- can it help?

  1. #1
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    exercise- can it help?

    http://www.ctds.info/scoliosis_treatment.html


    Discuss trigger points and releasing tight muscles that can pull on your body, some may have typical wedging of the spine, but is it possible that some may have skeletal muscular issues and that find this type of therapy could help.

    We won't know till we try it...or until you try it and post it
    age 15
    Daughter diagnosed at age 13
    T20 l23 10-09
    T27 L27 1/2010

    T10 L 20 in brace 4/2010
    T22 L25 12/2010 out of brace
    T24 L25 7/2011 out of brace

    Type 1 diabetes- pumping
    Wearing a Boston brace and Schroth therapy
    Faith, Hope, and Love- the greatest of these is Love


  2. #2
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    As there are legitimate PhD researchers investigating PT approaches to scoliosis. I agree exercise might some day be shown to help.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 11-12-2010 at 09:27 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #3
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    Exactly where are the researchers to do this work?

    Why is this not published? What is the criteria for a published material to make this credible? And what does it cost to write the paper?

    I have talked with two different schroth clinics and they are working at getting the paper work done. The first step is documentation. Pictures and measurements are noted. At the end of one week new pictures and data was noted. Even in one small week we saw significant changes, height measurements, air lung capacity improved, strength, improved flexibility, visible improvement of posture, and yes xrays showed improvement of 7degrees. That is my personal testimony! But what does that get us? NO its not documented research paper....but if I would qualify as a research scientist I would do it in a heart beat.

    Does the mother of scoliosis patient count? If anyone has the desire and passion to find a cure for scoliosis and diabetes...it would be a parent whose child suffers from the chronic condition.

    We need long term results and papers written. My thoughts are that there is no financial gain for surgeons to prove exercise is beneficial. It takes money to make a research happen, and lets face it exercise is an inexpensive treatment.

    It is sad that treatments may be dismissed because of lack of research data...despite the many personal testimonies of success.
    age 15
    Daughter diagnosed at age 13
    T20 l23 10-09
    T27 L27 1/2010

    T10 L 20 in brace 4/2010
    T22 L25 12/2010 out of brace
    T24 L25 7/2011 out of brace

    Type 1 diabetes- pumping
    Wearing a Boston brace and Schroth therapy
    Faith, Hope, and Love- the greatest of these is Love


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbluefrog View Post
    Exactly where are the researchers to do this work?
    McIntire has pointed out the logistical difficulties in doing this type of research. They sound formidible.

    Why is this not published? What is the criteria for a published material to make this credible? And what does it cost to write the paper?
    Actually there is plenty published on PT (Schroth, TRS, side shift, SEAS, etc.). The issue is that there is no magic bullet yet.

    I have talked with two different schroth clinics and they are working at getting the paper work done. The first step is documentation. Pictures and measurements are noted. At the end of one week new pictures and data was noted. Even in one small week we saw significant changes, height measurements, air lung capacity improved, strength, improved flexibility, visible improvement of posture, and yes xrays showed improvement of 7degrees. That is my personal testimony! But what does that get us? NO its not documented research paper....but if I would qualify as a research scientist I would do it in a heart beat.
    The problem is that these are all short term improvements. Many infer a lack of long term improvement from the near total lack of long term follow up studies for PT. As an example, a TRS reseacher (NOT McIntire!), rather than publish a follow up of his patients who did TRS, just republished the original data a few years later (in addition to a few new data points). That is a very good signt that he just didn't like the follow up data in my opinion. There is a reason there is so little follow up data in PT studies.

    Does the mother of scoliosis patient count? If anyone has the desire and passion to find a cure for scoliosis and diabetes...it would be a parent whose child suffers from the chronic condition.
    Unfortunately not.

    We need long term results and papers written. My thoughts are that there is no financial gain for surgeons to prove exercise is beneficial. It takes money to make a research happen, and lets face it exercise is an inexpensive treatment.
    But there are any number of non-surgeons who have bene banging awaay at PT approaches for DECADES. They could have published data including long term results. They have not. The question is why.

    It is sad that treatments may be dismissed because of lack of research data...despite the many personal testimonies of success.
    The problem is there are any number of personal testimonials that abject nonsense like homeopathy works. How do you sort out the real from the nonsense in personal testimonials? People can really and honestly believe something helped and really be COMPLETELY WRONG. That's why there are research protocols. For testimonials, I suppose you could start by tossing out stuff that relies on nonsense chemistry or violates physical laws and work with what's left.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #5
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    There is a Schroth clinic in Wisconsin. You might already know this.

    I personally do not believe that exercise based therapies are being silenced because of monetary reasons. But certainly there are many people who think that. I will, however, say that I don't think exercise based therapies are given the same treatment/respect in the literature either. There are several reasons for this, some are justified and other reasons are just plain bias. Regardless, exercise based therapies in the US have a large hill to climb to gain any kind of acceptance. One big hill, as I see it, has less to do with the actual science and more to do with the way our society views exercise and related therapies. In fact, just recently, one person with a large listening audience even suggested that exercise research had a politically motivated deception behind it. But I digress....

    The point is that, as a society, we like quick fixes with pills or surgery or something, we want it to be cheap or paid for and we want it to be guaranteed. We also like our therapies to be obvious. We like to know that we are being treated. And exercise just feels like... well... exercise. And our society negatively reinforces exercise from an early age (although this is slowly changing). I could go on and on but I'd just be rambling.

    Publication is cheap. But to get a study published requires a lot of time and even more money. Figure ~$150,000 annually for a small pilot study. ~$1 million for a 3-5 year randomized clinical trial. Since scoliosis isn't a life or death condition/disease (compared to cancer or HIV), getting that kind of money is very difficult. So smaller studies with fewer resources are done which places a lot of limitations on the researchers. And because there is no 'product' to sell for exercise therapies, device companies like DePuy aren't interested in funding these studies either. Again, I don't see this as sinister or corrupt. It's just a business decision. And ethical arguments aside, I don't really fault them for that.

  6. #6
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    Kevin,

    How did PT get legitimized for other back problems? Is it just because that research is necessarily shorter (most cases resolve within a year), or did some other party (like the insurance companies) fund the research?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Kevin,

    How did PT get legitimized for other back problems? Is it just because that research is necessarily shorter (most cases resolve within a year), or did some other party (like the insurance companies) fund the research?
    That's an excellent question.

    I'm guessing it was both obviously effective and there was no need in most cases to run it out over an entire lifespan for non-scoliotic conditions.

    PT for scoliosis doesn't have to run on forever... if someone ever showed most kids could avoid surgery if the right kind of PT was done just during the growth spurt, then that might get at least the kids diagnosed before the growth spurt off the surgery table.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdugger View Post
    Kevin,

    How did PT get legitimized for other back problems? Is it just because that research is necessarily shorter (most cases resolve within a year), or did some other party (like the insurance companies) fund the research?
    That IS a good question.

    I would guess it is because of a lot of issues but primarily because strengthening works quickly. In a sense, the anecdotal data from clinical observation was pretty clear that it was effective at reducing and/or eliminating pain. As well, the cause of back pain wasn't in question really. There was an unstable spinal segment and pain could be recreated consistently. It also generally coincided with an acute injury or chronic work condition. It was also relatively easy to show that the muscles were not acting properly at the specific level of pain. So... strengthen those muscles and report the results. The crux of those studies, I think, was clearly defining the level of injury as well as the type or grade of injury, e.g. bulging or herniated disc. An MRI could confirm that.

    There was a rather large study published in Spine a few years back that showed PT was effective at reducing the number of back surgeries. If I'm remembering correctly, I know the surgeons I was working with were talking about it quite a bit in a good way saying 'send them to therapy'.

    To answer the funding question, funding is much easier with back pain. While it's not life threatening, I believe it is the number one reason of worker's compensation claims and loss in productivity. That is, it's more pandemic and greatly effects a society.

  9. #9
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    yes, I went to both clinics the one in Steven's Point and Wauwatosa. I thought the PT was very beneficial. I preferred the one in Steven's Point over Wauwatosa. It is only geared for scoliosis whereas the Wauwatosa location treats multiple conditions. both places have excellent therapist and they explain everything. We have referred friends and they too are happy.

    It is hard work, and dedication to keep it up. Half an hour everyday....so if you want a quick fix....then this not the treatment for you. Magic pill or magic bullet....

    we are seeing great results with a therapist who is able to help massage and use lotus or trigger muscle release. That is amazing results...immediate. My dd felt her shoulders relax and said it's been a long time...posture is improved..no more hunched shoulders..

    research is still needed!

    Then I can get coverage!
    age 15
    Daughter diagnosed at age 13
    T20 l23 10-09
    T27 L27 1/2010

    T10 L 20 in brace 4/2010
    T22 L25 12/2010 out of brace
    T24 L25 7/2011 out of brace

    Type 1 diabetes- pumping
    Wearing a Boston brace and Schroth therapy
    Faith, Hope, and Love- the greatest of these is Love


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