Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 264

Thread: Martha Hawes improves her scoliosis w exercise

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by mariaf View Post
    I think my favorite line was one time when some of these 'alternative' treatment methods were being discussed (not on this forum) and somebody said:

    "alternatives to what? to things that work?"

    I don't wish to debate the topic with anyone, I just found that line very funny.
    Yes, is so funny for you!. If 'things that works' would not work in your case and you should to find something that really work, would not be funny for you hear other people saying what you say!!. But.. continue laughing, is not your case.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    We would all like to see improvements on our curves, but I'm very sceptical about these "treatments", seems to me nothing has changed in this field over the last decades, which is frustrating as medecine can do incredible things nowadays. For this reason I think, every now and then someone claims a new promising method, only to delude those affected.
    It's really incredible for me how some people as you have not any problem in discourage other people. Fortunately people believing in non surgical methods seems to be more respectful and not do the same in the surgical section.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Huddger, a good person like you could never understand why that kind of comments and 'jokes'.
    Last edited by flerc; 10-04-2011 at 12:57 AM.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    It's really incredible for me how some people as you have not any problem in discourage other people. Fortunately people believing in non surgical methods seems to be more respectful and not do the same in the surgical section.
    Flerc, did you actually read my post? I don't want to dampen anyone's hope, I'm just sceptical that's all.
    I'd be the happiest person alive if someone told me for sure I could improve my scoliosis, but as you get older you get more and more sceptical since nothing has changed in this field and there're plenty of examples of bandits making money on vulnerable people. This treatments remind me of those clinics promising to grow your hair back... I desperately want to believe that they work, but testimonials and pictures over the internet count as nothing believe me, I'd like to hear some truly independent authority saying they work. Can someone explain to me why these treatments are not widely available in all 1st world countries if they work so well?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Can someone explain to me why these treatments are not widely available in all 1st world countries if they work so well?
    The question answers itself.

    Schroth has been around over 90 years and still is a fringe treatment in Germany where it was "dreamed up" by a lay person.

    Alternative treatments are developed by lay people with no relevant training. I think the Better Business Bureau needs to police that stuff a bit more than they do.

    On the issue of dashing the hope of people by pointing out that alternative treatments are non-scientific and sometimes counterfactual nonsense, I am troubled that this is even an issue. It reminds me of how some psychologists have suggested that religion is useful because it is socially acceptable wishful thinking for adults. It doesn't need to be true. I guess some here are arguing for alternative treatments being socially acceptable wishful thinking for adults also. The difference with religion though it is DOES matter if alternative treatments are true (work) or not when it comes to a scoliosis treatment. These folks can imbibe in wishful thinking but it is very unseemly and doesn't help anyone in the end. The only hope is science. It's the only game in town.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-04-2011 at 06:56 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Flerc, did you actually read my post? I don't want to dampen anyone's hope, I'm just sceptical that's all.
    Flerc is not from the US but speaking about the US, the vast majority of people are not raised to value skepticism. They are skeptical of skeptical people essentially.

    Rather the exact opposite... they are taught sniveling credulity from an early age. They are taught to check their brain at the door.

    That's why alternative treatments can have a hey day with desperate, innocent scoliosis patients. It's a crime.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-04-2011 at 06:43 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    Words have commonly agreed upon meanings.

    VBS is in NO WAY "alternative" in the way that word is used in the context of scoliosis.

    It is surgery. Non-fusion surgery but still surgery.

    The crowd who want to avoid surgery at all costs would never call VBS "alternative" or even "conservative." They would call it surgery.

    Surgery and conservative treatments are legitimate because they are administered by trained people.

    Alternative "treatments" are just dreamed up by lay people with no relevant training.

    There is hope and there is false hope. Confusing them helps nobody.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Flerc, did you actually read my post? I don't want to dampen anyone's hope, I'm just sceptical that's all.
    Yes, I read that: We would all like to see improvements on our curves, but I'm very sceptical about these "treatments", seems to me nothing has changed in this field over the last decades, which is frustrating as medecine can do incredible things nowadays. For this reason I think, every now and then someone claims a new promising method, only to delude those affected.

    What do you think that someone trusting in some alternative methods as some people here (as you know) may feel reading what you said?.
    But probably you are different to someone as Mariaf (there's nowt so queer as folk) and other people here trying that people only does what surgeons say what to do. And the way is attacking and ridiculing that people and dirtying all non surgical posts as you are doing with this, regardless this would not be your intention.

    Itís not bad to do the question you are doing but only in a right place. It has not a simple answer as other questions as why medical community use the same kind of solution of a century ago Of course there is not a non surgical method working for everyone and medical community has not much interest in replace fusion for a solution according with this century. But all that questions were treated here http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...-to-Scoliscore I donít want to dirtying even more this thread.

    I hope youíll read it and if you think you remains with such kinds of doubts, youíll ask your questions and say what you want there and not in other post like this. And that even if you think that all non surgical methods are a fraude and you want to warning people, you'll simply paste a link to that debate. That is something what someone with that kind of beliefs and with really good intentions should to do.
    I may expect that from you, unfortunately not from other people with other intentions here.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    I hope that people will continues talking about what they were talking in this thread before this discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Surgery and conservative treatments are legitimate because they are administered by trained people.

    Alternative "treatments" are just dreamed up by lay people with no relevant training.

    There is hope and there is false hope. Confusing them helps nobody.

    I replied to that here http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...464#post126464

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Flerc is not from the US but speaking about the US, the vast majority of people are not raised to value skepticism. They are skeptical of skeptical people essentially.

    Rather the exact opposite... they are taught sniveling credulity from an early age. They are taught to check their brain at the door.

    That's why alternative treatments can have a hey day with desperate, innocent scoliosis patients. It's a crime.
    I'm not from the US either, I'm Italian, live near Milan, but nonetheless very very skeptical about this claims, if this method worked I probably wouldn't have to go to Germany or the UK for trying it, surely?? It would be widespread...
    You just have to go the mall to see tags like "anti-aging", "lowers colhesterol", "prevent baldness", what a load of tosh... life teaches you to be skeptical I suppose.. I totally agree with you that these things should be better policed, they are to my eyes criminals.

    I hope youíll read it and if you think you remains with such kinds of doubts
    Yes Flerc, I'll read that, but for what I know you could well have an economic interest in these alternative methods.. I worked as a webmaster and I can tell you that the Internet is full of fake testimonials and case histories, I don't believe it till I see it..

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I'm not from the US either, I'm Italian, live near Milan, but nonetheless very very skeptical about this claims, if this method worked I probably wouldn't have to go to Germany or the UK for trying it, surely?? It would be widespread...
    You just have to go the mall to see tags like "anti-aging", "lowers colesterol", "prevent baldness", what a load of tosh... life teaches you to be skeptical I suppose.. I totally agree with you that these things should be better policed, they are to my eyes criminals.
    There is a conservative physical therapy based treatment in Italy, SEAS. Have you heard of it? Those guys are medical doctors so they aren't loons but it seems they only have one patient so far out of hundreds who has responded. And her curve reduction is exercise-dependent... she has had to do extreme amounts of exercise to date and until she dies.

    http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/3/1/20

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Yes Flerc, I'll read that, but for what I know you could well have an economic interest in these alternative methods.. I worked as a webmaster and I can tell you that the Internet is full of fake testimonials and case histories, I don't believe it till I see it..
    Of course I can't know for sure but I would be shocked if flerc has any economic interest in any alternative treatment. If you read his early posting history, he is posting about any and all alternatve treatments and comparing adn contrasting them. He is just another lay parent with a child with scoliosis who is trying to find answers and is some cases, trying to get blood from a stone.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Yes Flerc, I'll read that, but for what I know you could well have an economic interest in these alternative methods
    Yes? Do you believe Iím commercializing some of those methods? Which of them? For every quote you may do of some of those methods I was talking about, I may quote 10 more of another method, mainly in other forums. Do you believe that all the alternative professionals are giving me a pay? Even I may quote a large and really hard discussion criticizing (from a particular point of view) all alternative methods.
    Certainly, I also may think that you are receiving a pay for say what you are saying. But I not believe that. Itís true that sometimes I try to get blood from a stone, as I did expecting a rational and respectful behavior from you. Even some people with other intentions here (I never said it was economic) seems much more clever and respectful than you.
    Continue believing and saying what you want about me. Not only I donít want continuing dirtying this thread, I have not time to waste talking with someone like you.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Not only I donít want continuing dirtying this thread,
    Don't be afraid of words and ideas. Everything is on the table for criticism. There are no "sacred' ideas.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Don't be afraid of words and ideas. Everything is on the table for criticism. There are no "sacred' ideas.
    Discussion out of topic as this, are really a simple way to cut the ideas or experiences that someone wants to share or want to know about some particular non surgical method. Itís a simple way to not allow people to talk about that kind of methods. And existing a thread treating specifically the issues around this discussion, obviously this would be the intention. Of course, you may say what you want about Martha Hawes method or Scroth here, you may say for instance why you believe that muscular strengthening may not be something so useful as I did in a thread talking with Dr. MacIntire (now Iím not so sure).
    But if you not say anything about those particular methods and you simply want to inform people what you believe about all alternative treatments, you may do it in a non questionable way, without generating the same discussion in these threads, simply saying what you want in that debate and pasting a link to it.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,148
    The chickens are coming home to roost...

    A culture of credulity has ill-prepared the populace for sorting out sense from nonsense.

    The rubber has hit the road.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •