Martha Hawes improves her scoliosis w exercise

[Pooka1]

Scott she is only trying to convince people to 'embrace her faith'.

Yes I'm the Pope of Scoliosis!

[flerc]

Scott she is only trying to convince people to 'embrace her faith'.

And surely she is doing that. How many visits have this forum? How many (literally) thousands of times she repeated the same in infinite different ways? How many millions of times she will repeat the same? She is a great preacher without any doubt and having all the time of the world for that. She says to be a scientist, so the influence, mainly to people without an enough comprehension about science, should to be enormous.
Even the moderator also ‘embrace her faith’ acting in consequence, and there is not a disclaimer statement (as in other forums) at the bottom of each post saying that if what is said here by members has any connection with reality, is only a big accident. And as in every post she has always the last word (she has the time for that) people are so much influenced to believe in her preaching, so surely as she want, they will believe that the only scoliosis true is what medical community is saying about it. This is her only one purpose here of course.. at least in this sections.
Forums must to be impartial and this is not. And nothing we may do of course.. only to contribute with her purpose as is happening..

[Pooka1]

She says to be a scientist, so the influence, mainly to people without an enough comprehension about science, should to be enormous.

Not it shouldn't because this is not my field. I can only comment on general science issues.

[flerc]

Surely much of them feel a great respect toward anyone saying to be a scientist, regardless the field, so all would sounds much more convincing for them.

[Pooka1]

Surely much of them feel a great respect toward anyone saying to be a scientist, regardless the field, so all would sounds much more convincing for them.

YES. I agree the general public is largely scientifically illiterate. Not their fault though there is fault elsewhere.

[flerc]

YES. I agree the general public is largely scientifically illiterate. Not their fault though there is fault elsewhere.

Yes, but it could not be the same to hear something like ‘Medical community is saying that A=B and I’m strongly agree with them’, that hear ‘Of course A= B and everyone thinking the opposite are more close to the monkeys than from human race’. In fact for everyone the effect of a categorical
assertion is extremely difficult to avoid when the field is new for us.

[flerc]

I wish you were here..for ever

No, not the medical community as a whole. Just those parts of the medical community which concur with her entrenched beliefs.

Bracing is standard medical practice, but that is challenged endlessly. VBS is considered experiment, but that is embraced.

So, again, it's nothing to do with medicine or experts or science.

It's just an arbitrary line in the sand. If it involves surgery, then it's good. If it does not involve surgery, then it's not good. Period.

All the talk about experts and medicine and science is a big ruse to mask that entrenched belief.

Yes Hdugger, as ever you are absolutely right.

[sjmcphee]

Hi Rohrer and Flerc and Pooka,
Thanks for your comments.
I have a kind of standard I adhere to in the way I deal with situations where the actions of one person affect another person.
I have a fairly open mind to things in the way that people have the right to make their own choices in life. People have the right to live, think, believe and act however they choose.
BUT – When one person’s (for lack of a better word) – crap – starts affecting another person, THEN SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.
Now If I take this same ideology and apply it to the situation I see here…
Then I’d say that Sharon in her actions of research forum cleansing is affecting the other people in the forum that believe there should be a place for this stuff.
By the same token, the people who believe there should be a place for this stuff keep posting and adding to the mess which is realistically ‘only throwing more fuel on Sharon’s fire’ and further affecting her efforts to do what she thinks is right to keep the integrity of the information posted on that forum accurate and evidenced based.
Now clearly, unless you are all prepared to accept an ongoing civil war on these forums, - your forums, which drives many people away, SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.
Rohrer, I don’t necessarily know what the answer is, - whether adding extra forums really is a good idea or not but I’d like to try and get you guys to think constructively about it rather than destructively. My thought was to have one section which just has info and is locked. Then you keep the integrity of that information intact. Maybe then you have a discussion forum for that evidence based research. I disagree with Sharon here in that I believe that - ‘there’s a place for everything and everything in its place’ – this is how I am approaching the building of my websites. There’s no reason why we can’t have a Folk Science research section as well - I think it’s really a great idea. If it keeps her happy we can even leave it called Folk Science – just so long as the people of this forum who believe there should be a place for this stuff get a place for this stuff and have their needs met. Personally though I wouldn’t recommend it and I’d maybe go for something more like - ‘Unproven Scoliosis Research Discussion’ or something like that.
That way everyone’s needs / concerns can be addressed.
Rohrer, I don’t agree with what you said, but maybe you didn't exactly mean it to come out that way>>If someone is taking everything posted on this forum as the TRUTH, then shame on them.<< - I don’t think shame on them – I think shame on us for letting them remain misinformed – The forum has failed a person in need.
Flerc, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘embrace her faith’, I won’t comment – please explain.
Pooka, I’d be interested in reading an article that explains exactly what the scientific method is. You should make that the first thread. I certainly value the opinions of experts, but I’m also aware that they don’t know everything, and sometimes but not very often some research that was considered gospel is proven to be incorrect.
QUOTE>>There appears to be no shortage of "romantic" notions about some lay person sitting in a corner of some room dreaming up something that the researchers never considered. Is that impossible? No. Is it likely? No. Folks simply don't know what they don't know.<<
Well I can’t speak for anyone else, but I want to say that trying to put new ideas forward to a group of people whose first instinct is to pick your ideas apart and find fault with it whilst remaining relatively closeminded to learning new ideas or thoroughly investigate because they already believe they know better when clearly they don’t is anything but romantic. Romantic once, yeah ok sure, but that was gone a long time ago, I only do what I do now simply because I’m kind of curious to find out whether or not I was right. Does it give a sense of importance or purpose, that maybe theres a reason to justify my suffering, yes maybe. Does it give clarity and understanding about my scoliosis - certainly - but I already have that. Pressure about feel obliged to do that which is almost beyond me - once, but no so much anymore. I may feel I know something important about scolisois that researchers don't, but I don't lose any sleep over it. I found something else more constructive to do instead.
I've got nothing to prove to anyone here. It makes no difference if anyone on here believes what I think about scoliosis or not.
You're not the people I have to prove it too, if I choose to want to try.

For me you had these around the wrong way –
Is it likely – No, BUT is it Impossible? – No
How do you really know what I do and don’t know?
Just like everyone else around here I will defend what I believe in too. - You know that.
And thats why 'There should be a place for everything and everything should be put in its place.'

But to put it really simple, I said it a week or so ago and I'll say it again -
'You can't attack people in a public discussion forum; for doing exactly that - discussing in a public discussion forum.'
It's crazy. Find a better way.
-Scott

[Pooka1]

Pooka, I’d be interested in reading an article that explains exactly what the scientific method is. You should make that the first thread. I certainly value the opinions of experts, but I’m also aware that they don’t know everything, and sometimes but not very often some research that was considered gospel is proven to be incorrect.

I think this is a pretty good site... let me know what you think.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/

Here is a page from that site that is especially helpful in understanding...

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/howscienceworks_01

[sjmcphee]

Hi Pooka,
Thanks for the link.
I thought the science site was good, and presented science concepts in a way that was easy to understand.
I think its meant as a school teachers resource for school kids in different grades.

Anyhow... So I went and had a look at the research forum.
I don't know what I was expecting, but it doesn't seem that bad to me.
Now I feel like an idiot.
I only looked at a couple of pages of thread listings, but everything seems to be in its proper place already.
I found some good interesting topics to read later on.
It seems to be as organised as it can be unless you were to create different categories within that forum - if there was a need for it.

Even my old stuff from 2003 must have been deleted a long time ago, which probably isn't such a bad thing since it probably wouldn't have made sense to anyone, and was probably an embarrasment to me anyhow.

-Scott

[flerc]

The ISICO folk talk about the contribution of three systems to the ultimate Cobb angle - the bony part, the ligament part, and the muscle part.

They would consider what Dr. Kiester said about ligaments turning into bones? If it would be true, I believe that would have not any sense to think in other parts.
But if it would be true, how is possible that surgery may correct curves in adults?
Why is all a big set of mysteries?.. in fact a net.

[sjmcphee]

I dunno where this came from flerc,
But you're gonna suck me in...
The reason why I try to stay away from the research forum is because it's like a black hole to me.
It will draw me in.

Any talk of an ultimate cobb angle I find extremely interesting.
I named it 3d cobb angle when I did my stuff so long ago.

They didn't even investigate what I tried to put forward so this is where I don't hold back on them.
This is where I can pick others stuff apart in seconds flat, to the point they shouldn't have even mentioned it.
And I can do it with common sense...

My opinion is that its a chicken an egg thing, straight up.
- They must all be living on fantasy island if they think they can figure it out and confirm it as being correct without already having completely understood the association between scoliosis biomechanics and scoliosis curve patterns.

Its almost laughable to me like thinking they can understand how a microwave oven works without first understanding microwave radiation.
Or thinking they can understand how a petrol motor car works without first understanding how an internal combustion engine works.

It can't be anything more than a dream to them, one they'll never see until they know what I know
But I'd like to see how far they've gotten...

[sjmcphee]

Oh yeah - by the way,
I do feel a little foolish for speaking about the research forum without looking at it.
Yeah- yeah - youz can all say whatever u want I deserve it... I can take it.
(I've got reasons to try and stay away from it for now)
But at least you all know I'm genuine and my hearts in the right place.
I genuinely do want a better future and solutions for scoliosis rather than fight over stupid issues that don't go anywhere.
I may be building my own scolisois websites, but that was a genuine act of concern and wellbeing of this forum.

- And maybe Sharon is going a bit to far and being a little closeminded by being overly focused on surgical related treatment.
I havent seen enough to make my mind up on this just yet.
Surely theres room in the research section for non surgical related discussions.
-Scott

[sjmcphee]

Don't know anything about muscles turning into bones Flerc,
But Im pretty sure the scoliosis exists before this happens, if it does happen, and not the other way around.
- Scott

[AMom]

Good Site

I think this is a pretty good site... let me know what you think.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/

Here is a page from that site that is especially helpful in understanding...

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/howscienceworks_01

Looked this site over to remind myself of its content; from a laymans' perspective the information is clearly written, provides simple examples, and is occasionally funny! Now, if it was required reading for all of the folks who write articles, I wouldn't have to spend so much time digging through piles of manure to locate the scholarly work. --If this is objectional language, I will remove it.--

For the purposes of comparison, Science Buddies (www.sciencebuddies.org) is cookbook science. Though it has its place, it stops at a grammar school level of information--which is frequently the only science presented in twelve years of education.

FYI: I've pulled info from both sites to give to my daughters to read with regard to their science fair projects while in 3rd - 6th grade.