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Thread: The most important item needed

  1. #1
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    The most important item needed

    Nutrition and diet
    The functioning of the immune system, like most systems in the body, is dependent on proper nutrition. It has been long known that severe malnutrition leads to immunodeficiency. Overnutrition is also associated with diseases such as diabetes and obesity, which are known to affect immune function. More moderate malnutrition, as well as certain specific trace mineral and nutrient deficiencies, can also compromise the immune response.

    Specific foods may also affect the immune system; for example, fresh fruits, vegetables, and foods rich in certain fatty acids may foster a healthy immune system.[107

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system

    Immunodeficiency (or immune deficiency) is a state in which the immune system's ability to fight infectious disease is compromised or entirely absent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunodeficiency

    Nutrition (also called nourishment or aliment) is the provision, to cells and organisms, of the materials necessary (in the form of food) to support life. Many common health problems can be prevented or alleviated with a healthy diet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutrition

    I think this is probably the most important thing that we need to consider. I did get the lecture from my surgeon months before I went into my surgeries about building my immune system. It truly is the best thing we can do for ourselves, surgery or not. I cannot believe that I have not started a thread on this subject matter in the past. This is the result of thinking about Joyful's difficult battles. I do know that this is the best defense that we have, all of us, scoliosis or not, surgery or not.

    It truly is something to think about. Forget the foam! Eat correctly!

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 59, the new 55...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  2. #2
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    Hear hear! When I talked to my surgeon about losing weight prior to my surgery, I got the lecture on the importance of good nutrition/healthy eating prior to (and after!) surgery. He said it was much more important to go into surgery having a healthy body due to good nutrition but being overweight, than being thinner because I'd lost weight but with poor nutrition. Actually, he gave the ok for a healthy dieting regime such as Weight Watchers (since that is what I asked about) where you are eating properly and getting all your fruits and veggies and protein and cutting out all the bad stuff. I did end up losing 20 lbs. but over a long period of time. It's just as important, during the fusing period, to continue eating a nutritionally sound diet. Your body needs to build up and heal. I did gain weight again after the surgery-- starting in the hospital! I wasn't allowed to diet until about 7 or 8 months post-op, and then again it was with the WW program.

    Let's face it folks, we just should be eating sensibly all of the time, with maybe a splurge every now and then, but not very often. I'm back on the wagon in that sense, having spent the last several months working hard. I've lost 30 lbs. It's a life-long problem with me. I've finally discovered I only need very small portions and the world will still be ok if I never get any desserts again-- or only once in a very great while. Life isn't dealt equally to all of us, unfortunately. Which we scolis know, oh so well. Right?
    Last edited by Susie*Bee; 10-02-2010 at 02:19 PM.
    66 and still heartbroken...
    2007 52į w/ severe lumbar stenosis & L2L3 lateral listhesis (side shift)
    5/4/07 posterior spinal fusion T2-L4 w/ laminectomies and osteotomies @L2L3, L3L4
    Dr. Kim Hammerberg, Rush Univ. Medical Center in Chicago

    Corrected to 15į
    2014 DXd w/CMT (type 2)

    Click to view my pics: pics of scoli x-rays digital x-rays, and pics of me

  3. #3
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    NEVER GET DESSERTS AGAIN?!!

    WHAT?!

    i live on sweets...have a wicked sweet tooth...
    sugar works on the same part of the brain as alcohol...i was a drug/alcohol counselor for my 2nd (part time) job...always thought i was lucky it was sugar and not alcohol that i have a craving for !

    i know...i know...sugar is very bad for the body..etc...i know!
    also know i'd rather skip the entree and move straight to dessert!

    i actually now am 97 pounds...(and my height shrunk to 5'3 from 5'5 due to scoli)...but am up from 86 pounds i sunk to from taking oxycontin!
    i have zero appetite with pain meds.....on the oxycontin i didnt even want sugar...i quit taking oxy because the weight i was losing scared me...i am on hydrocodone...
    i do not understand how anyone eats when they are on pain meds....not to sound harsh...i just cant understand how it is possible to eat while taking them...

    have studied diet/nutrition for years and years...i know the right things to eat, right vitamins and minerals needed for good health...

    now to actually do it...well, that is something else!

    jess

  4. #4
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    Believe me, Jess, some of us just have been dealt rotten metabolism or whatever. I, too, have a sweet tooth and crave desserts. I have teetered back and forth on portion control/quality of life, etc. That's why I go up and down. Not good. The older we get, the less food we need. One of the really bummers of aging, although I'm not THAT old yet. But I think my basic maintenance would probably be about 1200 calories a day. Doesn't leave room for much dessert. As I said, I gained in the hospital, I'm sure from the IV solution they fed me for 5 days, as I didn't eat that much once I could eat real food. One time I had influenza for 2 weeks and didn't eat for 10 days-- just had some fluids. I only lost 2 lbs. My body goes into starvation mode and shuts down. My doctor says I would have been a survivor in caveman days.

    Sorry about the pain meds. They do tend to do a number on people. You just have to try your best to get in the nutrients you know you need. Ed has posted a great protein shake type recipe he used to make. It's important for your well-being, both before and after surgery.

    And yes, I totally understand how hard it can be to KNOW and not be able to DO. Just like all the MDs who still smoke... or are overweight.

    BTW-- I made brownies for my hubby this week, and when he had warm brownies with ice cream on them, I cut a one inch square for me and topped it with 1 T of ice cream and enjoyed it very much. So I did have some dessert. Just not very much. It was fine. It felt decadent.
    Last edited by Susie*Bee; 10-02-2010 at 04:53 PM.
    66 and still heartbroken...
    2007 52į w/ severe lumbar stenosis & L2L3 lateral listhesis (side shift)
    5/4/07 posterior spinal fusion T2-L4 w/ laminectomies and osteotomies @L2L3, L3L4
    Dr. Kim Hammerberg, Rush Univ. Medical Center in Chicago

    Corrected to 15į
    2014 DXd w/CMT (type 2)

    Click to view my pics: pics of scoli x-rays digital x-rays, and pics of me

  5. #5
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    hi Susie
    i swear, if it were not for sugar, i'd probably be way below 97 pounds right now!
    the trick is to not call it dessert...to eat it in place of the entree...then, no weight gain!

    i know how stubborn weight can be, though...i was on steroids years ago..when they were at a loss for what else to do for Lyme patients who werent recovering completely...and the weight i gained from those meds took a looooong time to come off!!!
    also, before i was on thyroid meds, i swore i could LOOK at chocolate cake and gain weight!

    FYI...i was so weight conscious when younger, i asked for salt water instead of sugar water when i was in hospital and had to have an IV drip!!

    jess

  6. #6
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    Diet etc

    Thanks Ed - Diet is important, as is exercise and attention to spiritual development. Multi-factorial ;-)

    oh - don't forget ... water!
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  7. #7
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    Thanks. I needed that, Ed. Right now, especially. Some lessons we need to learn and relearn however much life hammers them home to us by painful experience.

    And Susie Bee - how true about metabolic changes - especially for those of us who have cut down on exercise because of pain! I'm quite sedentary now, much as I hate to admit it. Hoping that will change. I say "hope" rather than a firm statement, because outside influences ARE instrumental.

    I recently read (and agree) that in general one should minimize using expressions like "I'll try" or similar , as they reinforce a belief that we don't have control over outcomes. However, this is to a great extent a function of things outside my control - but ONLY IN PART.
    Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
    Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
    main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
    Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

  8. #8
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    Jess,

    Your balanced diet is critical. It takes discipline......Surgeons also look at your blood and can see what is going on.....usually right before surgery. Living on sweets doesnít cut it.

    Having your immune system working properly is so important to fight off infection after a surgery. With all the threads and posts here about what people need to do or buy before their surgeries, I would say that this subject should be the priority. The #1 item addressed. This should be addressed months before going under the knife. After surgery, also very important, but people address the "what do I need to do" question before their surgeries.

    I had to force myself to eat while on meds. It was extremely tough, and lost 40# in 40 days, which is insane, so I quit my meds before I withered away. I kept notes of everything I did, and knew that I needed so much more intake while healing. My protein smoothies helped quite a bit, and are easy to drink and pack quite a punch of "good stuff".

    I used a protein whey powder, yogurt, banana, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, almonds, and blended. This is a better way to put on weight. You can get your sugars with fruit juice, not processed sugars.

    Eliminate chemicals. Thatís in the center of the supermarket. You know, the cheese it's, fritos. etc. BTW If you ever need to light a campfire, frito's make great kindling. They light up like they were dipped in gasoline. Fruits donít catch on fire, they are much safer.

    Mamamax mentions water, which is something that is necessary all across the board, and having passed stones, I'm a fish now. This is another thing that is critical. 99% of my meals I will drink water. Maybe an iced tea, without sugar. All soda's are REALLY bad for you, probably worse than drugs.
    Spiritual development is also important... I was rewarded for my faith.

    Mamamax
    Science is not about lying to the world....Sometimes lying happens, not by our scientific community. If all the bees die on our planet due to cell phone radio frequency, who would be to blame? Scientists? Our cell phone company? Or ourselves, as consumers? Sometimes the quest for truth takes effort. Its unfortunate these things happen, but they do.

    Suzie Bee
    I know what you are saying about the "over nutrition" thing. I too was "over nutritioned" lol, before going in and was told to lose weight. It also affects immune function. In my thread about living to 100 years old, both people from Japan and Sardinia had completely different diets, one group basically ate meat, and the other ate seaweed, lol. I do remember in the film thinking that the only things that they did have in common were the fact that they were both active groups of people who didnít eat processed foods. Itís a testament to their immune systems working properly for so long.

    Amanda
    Yes, this is a hammer....sorry. This thread is about nutrition, not being sedentary. Nutrition probably having more importance, even though movement is important. If one cannot exercise as he or she feels adequate, then do the best you can through nutrition. Make the best with what you have. Hang a copy of the first page of this thread on your refrigerator.
    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 59, the new 55...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  9. #9
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    Ed,

    Did you take a genius pill at 2 a.m.? Good thread!

    OK Coach, Gonna go grab a glass of water and go for a walk!
    Last edited by foofer; 10-03-2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason: forgot to capitalize "Coach"
    Amy
    58 yrs old, diagnosed at 31, never braced
    Measured T-64, L-65 in 2009
    Measured T-57, L-56 in 2010, different doc
    2 lumbar levels spondylolisthesis
    Exercising to correct

  10. #10
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    Mamamax wrote,

    "Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best, because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)"

    This is actually a perfect description of pseudoscience minus the bit about Nobel prize.

    "He who tells the truth is driven out of nine villages." (African proverb as far as I know). People would rather be walled off from the truth in some cases.

    The scientists are the good guys and the only hope for desperate folks.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #11
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    Science Today ...

    Pooka1 wrote:

    Science is what we do to keep us from lying to ourselves." -- Richard Feynman, Nobel Physicist and genius


    Mamamax Retorts:

    Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best,
    because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)


    Actually I agree with Pooka1 in principle - it is the practice that finds my tongue in cheek response. I believe politics become the ties that bind our scientists from truly working great miracles - the result being, that patients cannot judge ... because (not being scientists) they cannot accurately interpret the information presented through the political looking glass. I find nothing wrong with science or scientists. I can see a large gap between principle and practice, due in large part to the politics of any give era. IMO ;-)
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    Pooka1 wrote:

    Science is what we do to keep us from lying to ourselves." -- Richard Feynman, Nobel Physicist and genius


    Mamamax Retorts:

    Science today is: how we can lie to the world and hide this at its best,
    because patients cannot judge! (anonymous future Nobel Prize winner)


    Actually I agree with Pooka1 in principle - it is the practice that finds my tongue in cheek response. I believe politics become the ties that bind our scientists from truly working great miracles - the result being, that patients cannot judge ... because (not being scientists) they cannot accurately interpret the information presented through the political looking glass. I find nothing wrong with science or scientists. I can see a large gap between principle and practice, due in large part to the politics of any give era. IMO ;-)
    That was definitely true of Bush the Second. There were charges from Federal scientists that he had his minions editing scientific comments if you can believe it. Not other scientists editing scientific comments, politicos without a lick of training doing it for purely political purposes. This is what it means to wall yourself off from the truth, in this case for nefarious purpose.

    http://www.webexhibits.org/bush/1.html

    On page five of that site...

    Then, in one well-documented case, the Bush administration blatantly tampered with the integrity of scientific analysis at a federal agency when, in June 2003, the White House tried to make a series of changes to the EPA’s draft Report on the Environment.8

    A front-page article in the New York Times broke the news that White House officials tried to force the EPA to substantially alter the report’s section on climate change. The EPA report, which referenced the NAS review and other studies, stated that human activity is contributing significantly to climate change.9
    The idea of Bush operatives commenting AT ALL on scientific matters can induce vomiting, them being so "geniusy" and all.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 10-04-2010 at 06:51 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  13. #13
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    Mamamax

    I see. and Sharon, thx for pointing out these highly disturbing facts. Itís a shame when things like this happen....I have experience with vomiting, and am tried of it.

    Anyway... back on track here. Hopefully, many will read this thread and realize that this is your best defense against any surgical complications.

    Amy
    Its not the genius "pill", itís the genius "switch!" LOL I keep my meds to remind me of how much I altered (inhibited) my systems in my recovery....

    Time for some granola, fresh raspberries, blueberries, soy milk for lunch. Mmmmm... so good.

    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 59, the new 55...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    ALIF/PLIF T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by titaniumed View Post
    Hang a copy of the first page of this thread on your refrigerator.
    Ed
    Ha! Beatchya to it. It was already there - squeezed in! In a few other places , but where better than the fridge?

    I've experienced stunning proof of the effect of good/bad nutrition on immuno-suppression. I'm increasingly convinced sugar and corn syrup are the next thing to poison. Certainly, that they depress the immune system.

    I dote on fruit smoothies, but hey! I thought they were good for weight loss, not gain. Guess it's all a matter of quantity. And what do you suggest for vegetables? I spoil myself with pre-washed salads but am still forcing myself a bit. It's OK along with protein burgers of various favors but - how else? Somehow I can only make green stuff go down with something so bad for me, I'm left wondering about the net effect.

    (How much can I wash greens in balsamic vinegar before I grab blue cheese dressing? Even lo-fat...Any recipe books, columns or online sites you recommend?)
    Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
    Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
    main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
    Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

  15. #15
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    Pookah quote
    A front-page article in the New York Times broke the news that White House officials tried to force the EPA to substantially alter the reportís section on climate change.
    Formerly known as "global warming" before climatic NUSPEAK took over to manipulate attitudes differently (that's our latest Fuhrer's method - attribution theorists helping out instead of using psychologists for boutique torture.).

    There's lying and there's not telling the Truth and then there's syntactic refurbishment. What next?
    Not all diagnosed (still having tests and consults) but so far:
    Ehler-Danlos (hyper-mobility) syndrome, 69 - somehow,
    main curve L Cobb 60, compensating T curve ~ 30
    Flat back, marked lumbar kyphosis (grade?) Spondilolisthesis - everyone gives this a different grade too. Cervical stenosis op'd 3-07, minimally invasive

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