Anyone 70 yrs + who didn't have surgery?

[foofer]

Me Too

I'm liking this thread too. And I change my mind every other week about surgery....and I feel just despairing over Joyfull. Really weepy- I think it resonates on so many levels.

When someone in my home town here meets with terrible misfortune, everyone is able to help in some way. It takes away some of the feelings of helplessness in the face of sorrow. I've never met nor spoken with Joy, but I wish there was more we could do, but we really can't - other than think about it and send posts that may or may not be read. I think that everyone of us who are addicted to the forum are just quietly decimated over this.

For this week- future surgery is in the "no way" category.

Surgery. yeesh.

I once asked Dr. Boachie what would I be like down the road, without surgery. He said, no way to tell- everyone is different- I said, Come on, I know you know. One of the other doctors that was in on the examination said I would more than likely be bent over prematurely. Everywhere I go I see my future self when I see older people with curves or bent over. They seem to do okay but I want to ask these folks detailed questions. There was a recent thread on this and the general consensus was- don't ask, don't comment. Lori, your original question was directed at +70 yr olds without surgery, and so far there are no responses from that group.

This summer, I was in a lot more pain and thinking ok, this is it...but my pain was most concentrated in my neck, and not likely to be alleviated by scoli surgery. I seem to be improving a lot with an exercise regime. Today my 80-yr-old mom went to a top doc about her neck problems, and she will probably undergo a big operation - A/P neck surgery. So I can put my own self on hold again. I guess there will always be something to keep me further back in line until pain pushes me to the front.

I hope my mother does okay, I hope you all come to a peaceful resolution, and I really hope Joy comes around.

[Lorz]

Foofer

I imagine the reason we have not heard from anyone 70+ is that, if they never had or considered surgery, they don't know this forum exists! I was just hoping, beyond hope, that someone could give me a glimpse in to that crystal ball. Although, the thread did open a really good discussion.
I ,too, have been very upset by what has happened to Joy. I cancelled my appt. for this Monday with Dr Boachie. I was kind of teetering on the edge, and the news just pushed me over. But, as soon as I cancelled, I was second guessing that decision. It really takes a lot of mental energy dealing with this, doesn't it?!
I wish your Mother well with her surgery. My father, who is 83, had a total hip replacement last year, and did really well. He tells me it is now my turn, and he will take care of me!

[jrnyc]

i think the hospital is the deciding factor in whether an infection happens or not! i just was told (by someone on forum) that NYU and hosptials associated with it (i believe Joint Diseases is one of them) has a bad rate for infections!
i would be staying there if i had my surgery...with Dr Lonner...which i havent scheduled...yet...

i spoke to patients of Dr Anand in CA who were age 68 and older...they werent interested in forum or other internet support sites...

jess

[gmw]

I decided to have the surgery at age 63. My quality of life had deteriorated greatly and I knew if I didn't have the surgery, I was looking at further deterioration. So decided to take the chance I would be better after surgery. At four months out, my quality of life is far better than before the surgery. No regrets! You will have a pretty good idea when the timing is right for you.

[loves to skate]

Lori,
I didn't even know that I had scoliosis until I had a severe attack of sciatica where I had to be taken by ambulance to the hospital. I was given a shot of demerol and a prescription for Percocet and sent on my way. No x-ray, no diagnosis or anything else. After suffering for more than a year with sciatica, my PCP finally did an x-ray and told me I had DDD. Scoliosis wasn't even mentioned. Finally because I was having urinary symptoms, I went to a urologist and the first question was, did I have a ruptured disc in my back, and he ordered an MRI. Finally we are getting somewhere. I saw a Neurosurgeon and he sent me for PT and water therapy and said he wouldn't operate until I was in a wheel chair. My live was miserable, the PT and water therapy helped me to improve core strength, but didn't help with the pain. I had epidurals which helped a little, but not much. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore, I couldn't stand to prepare a meal, I could barely make it out to my mailbox and back and I was the next best thing to being in a wheelchair. By the grace of God, I found a wonderful adult scoliosis specialist and practically begged him to operate on me. I was aware I could die or end up like Joy, but I was ready to risk it. Even though I still have some pain, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. I literally have my life back. Only you can make that decision for yourself.

New England Baptist Hospital in Boston has an extremely low post surgical infection rate. The Nurses, aides. PT's ,OT's and everyone were wonderful and I felt very safe even when because of snow and ice storms, my husband was unable to travel 40 miles to visit with me. I am probably the oldest person on this forum who has had surgery.

Good luck! Sally

[Back-out]

Sally,

It is both scary and gratifying to read your story as it sounds much like mine in many essentials - all but how you handled the pre-op symptoms and period (also no sciatica). If I dare, I am looking at scoliosis surgery for ~ T3 - S1 (+pelvic fixation) with decompression for lumbar stenosis. Guess that means a much longer surgery.

Still unsure with whom or just what procedure will be done. More later about distressing consult from which I just returned. But when I have the OP, I will be close to 65 (how did THAT happen? )

I' d love to know more about your physical fitness when you went into it and how your rehab went. I'm pretty weak, as pain makes it hard to get around and I must admit depression is a factor too. I know this is dangerous but I just can't seem to do what I know I should.

[loves to skate]

Amanda, I sent you a private message.
Sally

[CHRIS WBS]

Lori,

I searched the archives and found these posts from 70ish women who were never surgically treated. I remember Gerry. She was a lovely person. You may be interested in reading her string of posts:

http://scoliosis.org/forum/showpost....2&postcount=40

http://scoliosis.org/forum/showpost....37&postcount=1

http://scoliosis.org/forum/showpost....6&postcount=10

I did not need a crystal ball. At 59 and with an 80-degree curve, I knew this thing was not going to just halt and reverse itself. Whenever I found myself second-guessing surgery, I would review Dr. Boachie’s presentation http://www.hss.edu/professional-conditions_26610.asp which I found on the HSS website a few years ago. The picture of the emaciated elderly woman with severe lumbar scoliosis jolted me to where I might be in 20 years.

Joy’s surgical outcome was horrific to say the least. I am praying for both her and Brenda to make a full recovery. There’s always hope. If what I have read is accurate, what a shame that she canceled her surgery with a world-renowned surgeon at the nation’s top ranked orthopedic institution in favor of a minimally-invasive technique.

[Lorz]

Chris

Thank you so much for the links, they were very helpful, especially Br Boachie's lecture. I think you are correct, surgery is inevitable, and when I do decide to do it, Dr. B. will be my choice.

[Back-out]

Choice by default

I suspect the reason you haven't heard from anyone 70+ who "decided" not to have surgery, is because few, if any, decide not to have surgery in a definitive way.

Instead. they/we decide NOT to decide, by the week, by the month, by the year - until suddenly the clock strikes 70 o'clock or whatever. Then they/we decide the situation has become intolerable (re pain and/or disability) and finally they/we know for sure it IS time to take the chance.

But then - uh-oh, they find it's TOO LATE.
At least, according to the surgeons they consult!

This decision is so hard, many of us decide to postpone it as a compromise "solution". After all, surgical advances may make the techniques better so there are almost always good reasons to put it off. As long as we can stand "it", why not wait a while longer, while trying to stay as well and active as we can? This is especially apt to happen when we're not pressured by our insurance situation.

I can't really imagine anyone deciding on their own steam ABSOLUTELY never - EVER - to have surgery! Instead, it's a decision likely to be made by default with the passage of time. That's what's frightening.

When an outcome like Joy's happens to someone who wasn't suffering unbearably at the time, it appears most lamentable (and open to second guessing and regret). Yet for every Joy, there must be at least one patient with a similar profile who never has the chance to try their luck. Having waited "too long", they aren't allowed to roll the dice and hope to escape what eventually DOES become a bodily prison.

And what of THEIR regret?

It reminds me a little of the fertility dilemma women face as they age. I think of a family member who waited until it was the "right time" for children, only to discover the decision had been made for her by Nature.

[jrnyc]

check with Dr Anand at Cedars Sinai if you are 70...he does this surgery (using minimally invasive approach) on folks of that age...
not recommending or negating the possibility of doing surgery at that age...just mentioning that i spoke to a few of his patients...
they were content with their surgeries...at 3 years post op, anyway...

jess

[titaniumed]

Chris

Great post... a must read....

I am very hopeful that Joy and Brenda will be ok in time. Reading their posts can be heartbreaking, but I think the true test takes time. Some more than others. There is always light at the end of the tunnel....

I asked Dr Menmuir about me waiting so long, and he did say I should have been done a long time ago....Tough calls, but Dr Boachie addresses valid points about increasing problems that do tip the scales to surgery.

There is a big difference between waiting over the last 35 years and waiting now, due to technological advancements. Today is much easier.

I do hope Gerry is ok. It would be nice if she posted...

Lori,
I don’t know if you have seen Dr B, but if not, it might be a good idea to go and talk to him. It took me 2 1/2 years after my 1st visit to finally set my date.....Major pain episodes can show up quickly with large curves when we are in our 50s.

Amanda is so correct in saying that people "decide not to decide" It happens all the time, and not just with surgical decisions.
Scolis need to talk with other scolis to help make decisions.
Ed

[foofer]

Yay! Ed is back!

Lori,

My "strategy" has been to visit with doctors and make a plan as to what I would/will do when the time comes. So I agree with Ed that seeing Dr. B would be a wise idea. You establish yourself as a patient and educate yourself, and you come away with the knowledge of how the doctor would approach your particular set of circumstances.

Since 2008, I've seen three major doctors, mainly because I have been in their cities on annual visits to family anyway and also because so many of the doctors in Colorado had retired, leaving a temporary void. It also helps that my insurance supports second, third opinions out-of-state. All three docs advised me to wait, based on being highly functional and having manageable pain levels. Dr. Boachie said I would not be likely to have pulmonary issues in my future.

Since then my pain levels had increased and then more recently have subsided a level or two again. Who knows why, but I'll take it. But I feel comfortable with knowing that my homework is almost done, and I could make a fast decision if need be. Everyone says you will know when the time comes, and I'm not quite there, but I'm prepared.

Yes, the mental energy involved is quite phenomenal.....I think the decision-making part of my brain is often lit up like the Fourth of July.

[backissues]

Chris,
Thanks for the links. Dr. B's presentation was very informative. I don't know if he would suggest anything different than what has been suggested in Boston.

Irene

[Lorz]

Foofer,
Your story sounds so similar to mine. I saw Dr. Neuwirth, and a local surgeon a year ago, due to increasing pain levels. I was very close to making a decision for surgery when my pain level decreased. As you said, who knows why?! Ofcourse, it has again increased, and I am back to the pursuit. You are so right about the mental energy expended. I feel like I have no room in my brain for any other thoughts some times. I don't want to be one of those people, as Backout put so well, that decides by indecision.
Ed,
I did actually have an appointment scheduled with Dr.Boachie last week. I had to cancel. I stepped on a toothpick, which embedded in my foot, requiring surgical removal. Duh! I just wanted to test the "pain gate theory", which says your brain can only process one source of pain at a time. Wrong!! But, you are right, I do need to see him, and get as much info as I can.
Thanks to all, this is really a great conversation!