How folkscience can kill innocent babies

[Pooka1]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=129913054

People are idiots. We do not live in a demon-haunted world and yes science really is the answer.

Dead babies is what folkscience has to show for itself.

[SandyC]

Pooka1,
I absolutly agree. I just don't get the reasoning behind the decision not to vacinate (sp) a child. I have never had a parent explain to me the "science" of not doing so.

I'm old enough to understand the horrors on polio/whooping cough (had it as a kid)/measles (both kinds) etc since the vaccine wasn't around when I was a child. I remember the panic my mother was in when it was discovered that my sister and I were exposed to polio.

These diease's are making a come back because of poor decision making on the part of young parents who don't have a clue as to the results of some of these illness's.
SandyC

[Ballet Mom]

All these babies that died were too young to have had the DPT vaccination. It is outrageous to think that because people are making these decisions not to vaccinate, they are not necessarily killing their own kids, but other peoples kids, by allowing the illnesses to take hold in the general community.

Last week a medical doctor who's daughter is in my daughter's ballet classes stood up at a parent meeting and asked to make sure that all kids had been vaccinated against pertussis via the DPT vaccine and she recommended that adults be revaccinated also (after consultation with your own doctor) due to the nine baby deaths.

As we were leaving the meeting, one parent said that her daughter's chiropractors were totally against the vaccines and so she and her family wouldn't be getting them.

The chiropractor community should be ashamed of themselves and if they want to dispense medical advice they ought to go and become medical doctors themselves and take care of the sick and dying patients caused by their former profession's stupid advice.

[mariaf]

These diease's are making a come back because of poor decision making on the part of young parents who don't have a clue as to the results of some of these illness's.
SandyC

Well said, Sandy.

It's more than even just poor decision making. It is, as you say, cluelessness, ignorance and a total disregard for the health and welfare of others.

[Pooka1]

That's a great point about chiros generally being against vaccination, in keeping with their complete lack of rigorous training in anything real.

I posted some quotes from chiro school graduates who thought chiro school was a joke as were the "teachers."

Most of chiro apparently is really just a multilevel marketing scheme as far as I can tell.

[Pooka1]

Well said, Sandy.

It's more than even just poor decision making. It is, as you say, cluelessness, ignorance and a total disregard for the health and welfare of others.

I previously posted my agreement with SandyC about how her longer term perspective was important and necessary in the discussion. Apparently, my post was too factual for some folks because it was deleted.

[LindaRacine]

Sorry Sharon. I had to remove it because of your use of the word "faith."

[Pooka1]

Sorry Sharon. I had to remove it because of your use of the word "faith."

Okay thanks for that tip. I'll remember it.

I am carefully replacing certain words and phrases with others that are equivalent and I notice that works. I'll just keep chipping away at this.

Sorry for making work for you.

[jillw]

A few people in my son's class at school were diagnosed with pertussis last spring. We were all so surprised because all of them were up to date on the dtp vaccination (and booster shots), but they got it anyway. One poor girl had a "spit cup" at school because she couldn't control her coughing but wasn't diagnosed for months...they thought her allergies/asthma was causing the coughing and didn't consider pertussis since she had been vaccinated.

[Pooka1]

Well apparently the vaccine doesn't work 100% in everyone. That's another reason for everyone who has no history of bad reactions to get immunized. That way, these kids in whom the vaccine does not confer immunity are more protected.

[hdugger]

I got my son vaccinated for DPT, but I would not have gotten him the chickenpox vaccine (didn't have to because he got the pox before the vaccine came out). My reasoning was that chickenpox is a relatively mild disease in children, but pretty bad in adults and the vaccine shows some signs of "wearing off" after awhile.

This is just to say that sometimes there are reasonable disagreements with vaccine policy (although I don't think that DPT is the right vaccine to disagree with - the risk of the disease is much worse than the risk of the vaccine)

[Pooka1]

Yes reasonable people can disagree on certain vaccines. But not others.

I think most of the problem is true ignorance although there is moral turpitude lurking among the folks who know they are relying on herd immunity. There are people walking around loose who think that the vaccines aren't necessary because so few people get these diseases any more. These folkscientist "geniuses" (please pardon that redundancy) don't realize that these diseases are by no means eradicated. Small pox in the wild has been eradicated which is why I was vaccinated but my children were not. That is a tribute to the vaccine specifically and science in general. Prayer played no role whatsoever.

Science has mastered the reality landscape. You could say it has cornered the market on that.

[Pooka1]

http://scepticsbook.com/2010/07/12/a...e-information/

After a lengthy investigation the Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC) have finally handed down their findings into the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN).

The commission concluded that the AVN provide misleading information about vaccination and must post disclaimers on their website clearly stating they are anti-vaccination.

The report found evidence that the AVN misleads readers by using reliable and peer reviewed literature but selectively quotes from it, often in contradiction to the conclusions or findings of the studies. The AVN also gives non-peer reviewed and anecdotal material the same authority as peer-reviewed literature.

Quote mining... the game of people who know or should know they have lost the debate. Despicable.

[mariaf]

Well apparently the vaccine doesn't work 100% in everyone. That's another reason for everyone who has no history of bad reactions to get immunized. That way, these kids in whom the vaccine does not confer immunity are more protected.

I was going to say the exact same thing. To me, the fact that there are these cases out there - some of them in children who were immunized - is even more reason for everyone without a history of a bad reaction to get immunized. Otherwise, before you know it we will be hearing about more and more of these cases and all of our children will be at greater risk.

[Ballet Mom]

Well apparently the vaccine doesn't work 100% in everyone. That's another reason for everyone who has no history of bad reactions to get immunized. That way, these kids in whom the vaccine does not confer immunity are more protected.

No vaccines work 100% on everyone. We rely a great deal on herd immunity. It turned out that I had no antibodies to rubella when I was pregnant with my son. And there was actually an outbreak of rubella at the university I was attending when I was pregnant with him. It scared the bejeebers out of me. My obstetrician had to wait until after I had him to re-vaccinate me.