Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 37 of 37

Thread: Response to a specific question about Schroth

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    At any rate, we went to see the Schroth clinic because Weiss was by far the most prolific conservative management author.
    He certainly is. Thus we can be sure he is capable of designing, executing, and publishing a study that shows the efficacy of Schroth. The world is still waiting.

    His basic statement of "30 minutes a day of exercise could not exert enough force to control a curve", was basically what he thought of our project. He's correct to an extent, but also misses a big principle in muscle physiology, i.e. hypertrophic strengthening.
    I don't understand why this is an issue now. All PT researchers have to do ("all" heh) is show it works empirically. You can come up later and work out the biochem and physiology. Not knowing how lithium works for bipolar disorder doesn't stop it from being effective now. I don't know that it is even ethical to spend money trying to figure out how it works as long as it works and is safe.

    My one major critique of the whole practice was that bracing seemed to be over-prescribed. I think there were a couple of reasons for that.
    I can think of some reasons but I wonder which you are thinking about.

    Also, I wonder if Schroth always prescribed bracing during growth spurts or if that is a newer aspect. And when was it introduced if newer. It would be very interesting to know that for obvious reasons.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    Even trunk rotations would require a certain amount of teaching, just to ensure pelvic stabilization. Some could certainly learn it on their own. But I was amazed at how difficult a simple trunk rotation was for some kids to learn. We even programmed in 2 sessions of 'learning' before we began to strengthen anything. And there were still 1 or 2 patients that needed a 3rd 'learning' session.
    In riding at least, being able to stabilize one portion, say the hips, while rotating at the waist, is a skill in riding that defeats some (many?) people, especially since you have to maintain overall stability on a moving horse. And some find it easy to do in one direction but difficult in the other.

    So my lay impression from auditing hundreds and hundreds of hours of different riders in training is that this is a hard skill to do correctly without training, at least on a horse.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 08-02-2010 at 07:57 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Oh, had another question... did the Schroth folks mention why they think torso rotation should be avoided and why? It seems odd that they would take that position when it is obvious they don't have a lick of evidence against torso rotation and that there are a few studies showing it might help?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Oh, had another question... did the Schroth folks mention why they think torso rotation should be avoided and why? It seems odd that they would take that position when it is obvious they don't have a lick of evidence against torso rotation and that there are a few studies showing it might help?
    Someone here in forum gave a medical answer to that some time ago - but I cannot remember what the answer was or where it is!! Darn - I do know it made sense, and advising against wide sweeping movements was something my own medical doctor echoed (he said short movements would be ok). Maybe Schroth advises against for the same medical reason, I don't know - but I'll try to find out. Think we have some PTs here, trained in Schroth, who may know?
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,258
    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    No doubt that there are plenty of ethical considerations. But even assuming all of those concerns could be met, there is still the difficulty/impossibility to standardize something that has so much possible variation. You hit on it above, each curve is different and each patient is also different. Some have great body awareness, some, not so much. Having a therapist work with the individual patient is crucial for ANY type of therapy. Even trunk rotations would require a certain amount of teaching, just to ensure pelvic stabilization. Some could certainly learn it on their own. But I was amazed at how difficult a simple trunk rotation was for some kids to learn. We even programmed in 2 sessions of 'learning' before we began to strengthen anything. And there were still 1 or 2 patients that needed a 3rd 'learning' session.
    Yep - lots of variation, for certain. Another thing that comes into play, from my own experience anyway ... is the confidence factor which is easy to lose if movements are not reinforced through individualized instruction over time. Kind of like learning detailed dance movements, takes lots of practice and guided instruction - well, for the best outcome. I'm sure I'm one of those that would require re-hab :-)
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,903
    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    Darn - I do know it made sense, and advising against wide sweeping movements
    A parent came on here claiming Schroth advised against ALL torso rotation, big, small, in a box, with a fox, on a train, etc. etc.

    That parent is either correct or incorrect. Based on some published comments someone posted IIRC, that parent is correct.

    Maybe someone can post some Schroth literature on this.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 08-02-2010 at 09:26 PM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    San Bruno, CA
    Posts
    271
    I do remember a comment on a thread about some Schroth therapists telling them to avoid rotations. The link provided showed various yoga positions and were extreme rotations (the seated position with one knee bent and flat on the floor and the other knee bent with foot on floor. Then opposite elbow uses the bent knee as leverage to get lots of trunk rotation).

    At any rate, the rationale behind their statement to avoid rotations had to do with squeezing the internal organs particularly due to the rib cage deformity. It makes sense to me but doesn't suggest to me that all rotations should be avoided. I think the other reason is that Schroth is designed to always de-rotate. I believe there are some minor exceptions to this, e.g. when they are working on one individual segment. But in general, the goal is to correct the 3-d spine and thus, de-rotation is key. Again, it makes sense to me but I'm skeptical that rotating with the goal of strengthening would be contraindicated.

    There are too many blinders on for various therapists and clinicians, and even scientists. There can be, and most certainly is, good physiology in different methods. Contraindications for one type of movement or exercise shouldn't necessarily cast a blanket statement on all forms of that movement or exercise.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •