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Thread: TSRH research shows that bracing IS effective!

  1. #16
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    Thanks for pointing that out, Sharon...it is important to be aware of that kind of stuff...i didnt realize that group may have done a previous study of same nature...in brace...
    i am sure someone on forum will get a hold of the study and look at these questions...

    wonder if Linda has seen this particular study...

    jess

  2. #17
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    Sharon. I think you're right. It looks like the same batch.

    The only thing that is a little hinky is Figure 3 from the paper. They present percentages of patients that progress or don't progress based on the number of hours in the brace. They don't give the number of patients in each stratified group, which may indicate that the group of greater than 12 hr compliance is very small.

    The number of kids that progressed=50 didn't progress=50 (not stratified for brace wear).

    The range of hours of brace wear for kids who didn't progress was zero to twenty-one. That's a pretty broad range. The range for progression was 0.01-16. If those ranges were significant, they would have published the numbers.

    I still think that bracing can help, but I have doubts about the significance here. Then again, I always am skeptical.

  3. #18
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    bracing

    Good find Sherie

    Without spending dozens of paragraphs to make my point...

    I believe the overall weight of evidence supports the notion that bracing works. I'm not saying it's pleasant or there aren't better treatment options. But overall it's probably helpful.

    When Dr. Moreau's blood test is released we'll know for sure because it can be used to test the effectiveness of bracing or other treatments.

  4. #19
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    hey Pnuttro
    1-21 hours...that is a HUGE span! ridiculous..how is that part of a "scientific" study?!

    jess

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    Good find Sherie

    Without spending dozens of paragraphs to make my point...

    I believe the overall weight of evidence supports the notion that bracing works. I'm not saying it's pleasant or there aren't better treatment options. But overall it's probably helpful.

    When Dr. Moreau's blood test is released we'll know for sure because it can be used to test the effectiveness of bracing or other treatments.

    Thanks. Bracing is not pleasant, we tried it too but without evidence that it would halt progression, it was hard to stick too.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUTTRO View Post
    Sharon. I think you're right. It looks like the same batch.

    The only thing that is a little hinky is Figure 3 from the paper. They present percentages of patients that progress or don't progress based on the number of hours in the brace. They don't give the number of patients in each stratified group, which may indicate that the group of greater than 12 hr compliance is very small.

    The number of kids that progressed=50 didn't progress=50 (not stratified for brace wear).

    The range of hours of brace wear for kids who didn't progress was zero to twenty-one. That's a pretty broad range. The range for progression was 0.01-16. If those ranges were significant, they would have published the numbers.

    I still think that bracing can help, but I have doubts about the significance here. Then again, I always am skeptical.
    I don't see what you're talking about, is there more here than I'm seeing? Do you have the full publication?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherie View Post
    I don't see what you're talking about, is there more here than I'm seeing? Do you have the full publication?
    None of these details are likely to matter if this is yet another in-brace study and not a few years out of the previous study cohort.

    If this is another Mooney/Torso rotation situation then that is somewhat worse than no publication. That is, they may have looked at the long term data and not liked what they saw so they designed a new and hopefully better study. Let's really really really hope that isn't the case. And if that is the case I certainly hope they mention that they did not follow up with the previous group and the reason why not. Mooney died before someone addressed that question to him on his two torso rotation studies.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 07-15-2010 at 10:29 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  8. #23
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    I know that in some cases (not all) the degrees reduced with the brace increase again, some time after removing the brace, and even when skeletal maturity is reached.
    Someone knows how it is possible? It’s a matter of muscles, ligaments, bones, disks, tendons, fascias, organs…something else ?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I know that in some cases (not all) the degrees reduced with the brace increase again, some time after removing the brace, and even when skeletal maturity is reached.
    Someone knows how it is possible? It’s a matter of muscles, ligaments, bones, disks, tendons, fascias, organs…something else ?
    The brace is holding the curve. Remove the brace and there is nothing to hold the curve.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #25
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    I think it's almost funny how some of you are immediately discrediting a study from a scoliosis research institution. Why? Do you think these are ignorant, uninformed "lay people" conducting these studies? The fact that they treat more than 6,000 children every year for scoliosis obviously has no merit here.

    I went to TSRH, it's a huge hospital and their focus is on orthopedics and scoliosis. Very caring physicians too. Dr. Lenke told me he goes there to teach some of his techniques, I guess he doesn't think they're a joke.

    Why don't you guys write to the researchers with your concerns let us know what they say.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    The brace is holding the curve. Remove the brace and there is nothing to hold the curve.
    Is this a fact, do you have hard evidence to back this claim? I'm not saying you're wrong, but we need facts, not assumptions.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    None of these details are likely to matter if this is yet another in-brace study and not a few years out of the previous study cohort.

    If this is another Mooney/Torso rotation situation then that is somewhat worse than no publication. That is, they may have looked at the long term data and not liked what they saw so they designed a new and hopefully better study. Let's really really really hope that isn't the case. And if that is the case I certainly hope they mention that they did not follow up with the previous group and the reason why not. Mooney died before someone addressed that question to him on his two torso rotation studies.
    Why don't these details matter? That's the whole point of research, it's in the details. I didn't see what she was referring to and simply wanted to know what she was looking at.

    Why do you keep quoting the Mooney study? That has no relevance here and is way off topic. If you want to bash that study, then start a new thread.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherie View Post
    Is this a fact, do you have hard evidence to back this claim? I'm not saying you're wrong, but we need facts, not assumptions.
    It's obvious.

    If you don't think it is obvious then why do you think curves go back to pre-brace levels? And why are braces only claimed to hold curves (at best) and not reduce them permanently?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherie View Post
    Why don't these details matter? That's the whole point of research, it's in the details. I didn't see what she was referring to and simply wanted to know what she was looking at.

    Why do you keep quoting the Mooney study? That has no relevance here and is way off topic. If you want to bash that study, then start a new thread.
    I keep referencing that study because I tnk there is a high chance of a parallel here in terms of researchers starting a new study rather than doing a follow up with a revious similar study. Hopefully someone will get the paper.

    I assume you might agree that if this is an in-brace study, it is premature, yes? I mean the other in-brace study with similar results happened before the ethicists okayed BRAIST.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    I keep referencing that study because I tnk there is a high chance of a parallel here in terms of researchers starting a new study rather than doing a follow up with a revious similar study. Hopefully someone will get the paper.

    I assume you might agree that if this is an in-brace study, it is premature, yes? I mean the other in-brace study with similar results happened before the ethicists okayed BRAIST.
    No, I don't think it's premature if they are only publishing the facts as they have developed. If they've been bracing for 18 months or whatever time, and they didn't see any progression during that time in the compliant bracers, then they're drawing a factual, observable conclusion from their data. Now if they go on to say somewhere that this will hold forever, then that's a false statement.

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