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Thread: Interview with Dr. Alain Moreau, creator of Scoliosis blood test

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    rabbits of Sastre developing scoliosis because trauma on cartilages , remains always being quadrupeds
    Quote Originally Posted by rohrer01 View Post
    Which cartilage?
    I can not find the article in the net but I saved it in a doc file. In the Sartre's book will surely be able to find all of this in great detail, but he said: The unilateral intervertebral compression factors aggravate the bends. Without the presence of these compression factors, is unlikely that the scoliosis be formed.
    But the trauma he provoked in rabbits, I beleive is the 4) of this article (first page): http://web.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/reprint/43-B/1/116.pdf
    Radiation is the 5)!

  2. #62
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    hey Sharon
    hmmmm...i sincerely hope some of those lab researchers come back as animals in their next lifetime! lab animals!! research subjects!
    i suspect alot of the "research" involves unnecessary experiments...
    and...excuse me, but i dont see the importance of the "predictions" until and unless there is some way of prevention!! if i knew way back when that i had a risk of scoli...what? what would i have done differently...?
    and...my sisters dont have it...where was their risk?

    jess

  3. #63
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    Pathogenes + Immune System + OPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingo View Post
    I'm glad you guys enjoyed the interview. Many thanks go out to Dr. Moreau. His work will make a huge difference in the lives of children around the world. We are lucky to have a brilliant person like Dr. Moreau on our side.

    Speaking of showerheads...

    This is from the NewScientist
    Shower heads make a perfect home for bugs



    I assume metal is superior to plastic because it conducts heat and kills bacteria and other pathogens. As Dr. Moreau said it will take research to determine if exposure to harmful bacteria can trigger curve progression. However using a clean showerhead is an inexpensive, healthy decision that could probably benefit almost everyone. I checked and my shower has a very old... very plastic showerhead.

    Here is some information about Mycobacterium

    Wiki: Mycobacterium



    Because Mycobacterium enjoy moist environments I guess it's also time to examine how we store toothbrushes at our home.
    Dingo -

    I look forward to Dr. Moreau's continued work. I cannot pretend to understand all that is involved, but I can see links ;-)

    Pathogens (viral, bacterial, fungal, parasitic, prionic): The body contains many natural orders of defense against some of the common pathogens (such as Pneumocystis) in the form of the human immune system and by some "helpful" bacteria present in the human body's normal flora. However, if the immune system or "good" bacteria is damaged in any way (such as by chemotherapy, human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), or antibiotics being taken to kill other pathogens), pathogenic bacteria that were being held at bay can proliferate and cause harm to the host. Such cases are called opportunistic infection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen

    Immune System: The job of your immune system is to protect your body from these infections. The immune system protects you in three different ways: http://health.howstuffworks.com/immune-system3.htm

    It creates a barrier that prevents bacteria and viruses from entering your body.

    If a bacteria or virus does get into the body, the immune system tries to detect and eliminate it before it can make itself at home and reproduce. Bacteria are completely independent organisms able to eat and reproduce - they are sort of like fish swimming in the ocean of your body.

    If the virus or bacteria is able to reproduce and start causing problems, your immune system is in charge of eliminating it. A virus particle is nothing but a fragment of DNA in a protective coat. The virus comes in contact with a cell, attaches itself to the cell wall and injects its DNA (and perhaps a few enzymes) into the cell.

    Once inside the body, a germ deals with the immune system at a different level. The major components of the immune system are:

    * Thymus
    * Spleen
    * Lymph system
    * Bone marrow
    * White blood cells
    * Antibodies
    * Complement system
    * Hormones

    Individuals who have a suppressed immune system are quickly over powered by the organisms. The majority of chronic or persistent infections occur in individuals who have poor defense mechanism(s). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infecti...bility_of_host
    OPN Connection: Osteopontin (OPN) is expressed in a range of immune cells, including macrophages, neutrophils, dendritic cells, and T and B cells, with varying kinetics. OPN is reported to act as an immune modulator in a variety of manners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopo...mune_functions

    So .... If one is looking for causative factors relative to scoliosis, the causations need to be something that has been around since time out of mind. Seems to me those things certainly could involve a compromised immune system (genetic/familiar pattern leading to a predisposition) along with pathogens. Why not? The common cold is attributed to over 200 different viruses. One gets a cold when the immune system cannot fight these off, or when the immune system is compromised.

    Why couldn't there be a yet unidentified link between scoliosis, genetic/familiar weakened immune systems, and pathogens (viral, bacterial, fungal, parasitic, prionic)?
    Last edited by mamamax; 06-20-2010 at 08:15 AM.
    Idiopathic, from the Latin meaning: we're idiots 'cause we can't figure out what's causing it (TV Dr. House, MD)

    I'm not weird ... I'm simply - multifactorial

  4. #64
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    Showerheads and fish tanks OH MY!

    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]hey Sharon
    hmmmm...i sincerely hope some of those lab researchers come back as animals in their next lifetime! lab animals!! research subjects!
    i suspect alot of the "research" involves unnecessary experiments...
    Yes regulation is the only hope for these poor unfortunate creatures. It has gotten better over the years but there will always be a ways to go. I never could have gone into that type of research.

    and...excuse me, but i dont see the importance of the "predictions" until and unless there is some way of prevention!! if i knew way back when that i had a risk of scoli...what? what would i have done differently...?
    and...my sisters dont have it...where was their risk?
    Yes. This type of research on predicting whose curves will worsen, who are the one in a 1,000 who will need surgery, is only the beginning. If there are no good non-surgical treatments then there are no good surgical treatmnts... it won't change that one whit. That's why I think the surgeons will develop a non-fusion surgical treatment well before they solve scoliosis on a molecular level and actually develop a pharmacological therapy. I don't think the latter will happen in my lifetime. Technical/engineering solutions, like my example of sending men to the moon and returning them safely, are just easier than the intrinsic biochemistry of animals. That's what ~3 billion years of evolution gets ya.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #65
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    i dont know how anyone does that kind of research day after day...and i know you wouldnt want to work in that kind of a lab!

    my husband believes there will eventually be a way to fuse with flexibility...some way to have something in the rods, a kind of metal joints or spots on the rods that can "bend"... that will allow for some degree of flexing motion... surgeons tell me it isnt possible now with the limited technology we have available...
    my sister told me a friend had treatment for a broken knee that involved some kind of "scaffolding" approach, so the knee had flexibility to it... it was held in some kind of a new fangled casting...while it healed!
    i never thought of an approach using pharmacology! but it is a fascinating idea...

    i know i wont live to see the new treatments, but if we could look ahead 50 years or so, i bet it would be an amazing view!

    have a good wkend
    jess
    Last edited by jrnyc; 06-20-2010 at 09:16 AM.

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    Kalla comes through!

    I recalled reading a paper that questions Moreau's hypotheses about OPN triggering scolisois. Over on Kalla's site, fixscoliosis.com (sic), he found the paper and excerpted the relevant passages. He appears to be the only one on that forum who actually understands this issue.

    http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/4/1/24

    Here is what Kalla correctly excerpted which questions Moreau's work and interpretation. I bolded certain passages for emphasis.

    "Osteopontin and soluble CD44 receptor
    Most recently, Moreau et al [19,20] reported mean plasma
    osteopontin (OPN) levels to be increased in:
    • patients with idiopathic scoliosis, correlating significantly
    with curve severity, and
    • "an asymptomatic at-risk group" (offspring born
    from at least one scoliotic parent).
    In contrast, mean plasma levels of soluble CD44 receptor
    (sCD44) were significantly lower in patients with Cobb
    angles of 45 degrees or more. Drawing on evidence from
    mouse models, it was concluded that OPN is essential to
    induce scoliosis formation and curve progression through
    interactions with CD44 receptors, "thus offering a first
    molecular concept to explain the pathomechanism leading to
    the asymmetrical growth of the spine in idiopathic scoliosis."
    [19].
    We ask whether:
    (1) in mice, the scoliosis of melatonin-deficient models
    has another interpretation; and
    (2) in the AIS subjects [19,20], the increased OPN levels
    are secondary to bone remodeling.


    Some melatonin-deficient mouse models of scoliosis -
    markers of developmental stress?


    Moreau et al [19,20] found all transgenic melatonin-deficient
    C57Bl/6J mice [150] devoid of OPN or CD44 receptor
    were protected against scoliosis, contrasting with wildtype
    ones. May this be, not because OPN is essential for
    scoliosis pathogenesis, but because OPN deficiency
    reduces stress reactions in mice [260]?
    For, in mice, circulating OPN plays a significant role in the
    body's reaction to stress by regulating hormones of the
    hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) [260] modulated
    by leptin which activates the JAK/STAT pathway. Stressors
    cause less up-regulation of the stress hormone corticosterone
    in OPN-deficient mice [260]. This may be tested in
    the model used for mice: (1) rendered bipedal at 3 weeks
    of age, and (2) kept in tall cages to make them reach up
    increasingly for food and water [150]. The developmental
    stress hypothesis [261], if confirmed, suggests that OPN
    deficiency through reduced corticosterone up-regulation
    causes less stress-reaction damage to the neural development
    of posture and so protects against the scoliosis. If so,
    these transgenic mice findings [19,20] may not be relevant
    to AIS pathogenesis.


    Osteopontin and bone remodeling in mice

    Osteopontin, a major non-collagenous bone matrix glycoprotein
    originally isolated from bone - sialic acid rich,
    phosphorylated and inhibitor of calcification - has a critical
    role in bone remodeling which in OPN-knockout mice
    was suppressed [262]. Hence, the interpretation under
    item 11. above, and the evidence from Fujihara et al [262],
    together raise caution about attributing a causal, rather
    than a consequential, role to increased plasma OPN in AIS
    pathogenesis."
    So we have other researchers questioning EVERY major claim of Moreau and especially the "centerpiece" claim that OPN causes AIS. The bunnies were incorrectly wowed. Again.

    None of this means that Moreau is necessarily wrong. It does mean that there are other, equally valid interpretations of the research to date, that Moreau's work hasn't settled any question, and that there is still no solution. This research area is a long, hard road and I admire the researchers who walk it.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 06-20-2010 at 09:28 AM.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #67
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    hmmmm...much ado about little, i say...but that's just my opinion...

    jess

  8. #68
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    So we have other researchers questioning EVERY major claim of Moreau and especially the "centerpiece" claim that OPN causes AIS. The bunnies were incorrectly wowed. Again.
    Actually I think I as wrong on this point. In reading the article, I notice that Moreau's results about the melatonin signaling dysfunction (MSD) pathway has been confirmed and extended by other researchers. But given that, I wonder why they are not pushing on this door in terms of trying to develop a pharmacology treatment? Instead he is pursuing the OPN/sCD44 business. That's curious. Essentially he is going with a less proven and more questioned hypothesis to pursue and seems to be downplaying the MSD stuff which enjoys more agreement among researchers in the field. Maybe there is no obvious play with the MSD thing. Maybe it is known that it isn't causative or even a point of entry into the biochemistry to block scoliosis onset or progression... I certainly don't know one way or the other.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  9. #69
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    Of Mice and Scoliosis

    As far as I can gather (which isn't far!), scoliosis induced in mice is either functional (as in all the bipedal experiments) and not structural as in IS or is caused by premature fusing as in the abstract for research on a knockout mouse strain (Jun) Pnuttro posted and therefore NOT relevant to IS in humans.

    If that is correct, NONE of this mouse work is relevant or at least directly relevant. The mouse work is what Moreau is using for his main claim that OPN is causative of IS in humans as I understand this.

    Anybody know?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #70
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    I just wanted to make a comment in regards to animal research.

    1. It's true that any results from animal studies should always be interpreted with caution as it relates to human studies. However, there are also a lot of similarities.

    2. There are several organizations, government and private, that oversee and certify animal facilities. Every procedure must be justified and every facet of recovery of any surgery must be addressed, including pain reduction. To a certain extent, animals are more protected than humans.

    3. Regulations are always changing in order to be as ethical as possible.

    I won't argue or defend any other points really because I know this is a passionate issue and not the easiest thing for people to think about. But I can assure you that those in charge of protecting the animals as well as most of the scientists doing the work have a lot of respect and compassion for the animals they work with.

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    skevimc, I hope would be true all you said.
    I do not know how are the current regulations, I think that outcomes should to be anticipated and conclusions for each ones should to be elaborated. If none conclusion is enough important, the experiment should not to be allowed at least if the suffer will be great.
    I really doubt that much resources would be destined to reduce the suffer..

  12. #72
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    Do bunnies get scoliosis?
    Amy
    58 yrs old, diagnosed at 31, never braced
    Measured T-64, L-65 in 2009
    Measured T-57, L-56 in 2010, different doc
    2 lumbar levels spondylolisthesis
    Exercising to correct

  13. #73
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    Post of the Month Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by foofer View Post
    Do bunnies get scoliosis?
    Post of the Month Nomination

    Very good.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by foofer View Post
    Do bunnies get scoliosis?
    This one did

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    skevimc, I hope would be true all you said.
    I do not know how are the current regulations, I think that outcomes should to be anticipated and conclusions for each ones should to be elaborated. If none conclusion is enough important, the experiment should not to be allowed at least if the suffer will be great.
    I really doubt that much resources would be destined to reduce the suffer..
    U.S. Government Principles for the Utilization and Care
    of Vertebrate Animals Used in Testing, Research, and Training

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