Cost of Cheneau Brace?

[bbrian35]

There is a Schroth outfit in Wisconisn (not sure which) that is charging nearly double for this brace than you can get it elsewhere. BigBlueFrog posted about it. If you avoid that place then you will be fine.

I don't think it's Spinal Dynamics or Patrick Flanagan that charges double for a brace. We have the RCS brace made by Patrick Flanagan. He works out of Spinal Dynamics 1-2 days a month. He is an incredible, knowledgable orthotist. He was trained by Dr. Rigo himself from what I know. The brace he made was about $500. more than what the Boston Brace would have cost thru the orthopedics dept. at Children's Hospital. The RSC or Cheneau address more than the left/right spinal movement that the Boston does. The RSC or Cheneau address rotation as well as kyphosis and lordosis. Even Kaz, an orthotist at Children's said he wished that they were trained in RSC or Cheneau brace making. My daughter wears a brace made by Patrick. He evaluates her regularly and adjusts when necessary. She has made great progress so far with a reduction in Cobb angle, but at least as important, her kyphosis, which was flat, is showing some progression toward a more normal curve. Xrays also show spinal rotation has been reduced in brace. We are soon to have our 1st out of brace images done and hope to see that the brace is holding the curve, if not lessening it.

[mamandcrm]

Hi bbrian35,

Happy to hear your daughter is doing well

[bbrian35]

Hi bbrian35,

Happy to hear your daughter is doing well

Thanks, our experience with the RSC has been greater than what I ever expected when this all started. Good to see the wonderful results on your signature!

[Pooka1]

Here is what BigBlueFrog posted on 31 January 2010 (emphasis added)

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showp...7&postcount=17

We just completed a week of intensive Schroth therapy at the Scoliosis Rehab in Steven's Point, WI. We paid out of pocket since insurance didn't accept out of network providers. If you have an option to go out of network it should be covered under Physical therapy.

We had a very positive experience, she worked for 4 hours a day. Two hours in the morning and two hours in the early afternoon.

Ambrea learned how to correct her spine with elongation and traction. Re learning basic mechanics. They taught her to avoid twisting or extra turning as that can increase the torc of the spine.

They measured her air input and lung function, measured height. She also learned rotational breathing, and isometric exercises to help strengthen the weaker areas and breathing exercises to open constricted areas.

At the end of the week her posture improved greatly, but it is not the end of her journey ....its the beginning. It is an investment. My husband built the bars and we put up mirrors in our sun-room. For thirty minutes a day she does the lengthening and coordination exercises. This helps retrain her brain in preconception.

We were going to get a spinecor brace..schroth prefers rigo cheneau. The therapist reccomended that one over all. the cost of the brace is $6000 at this time. mmm wonder if insurance covers it?

So I guess the good folks here (and in Stevens Point, WI) claim BigBlueFrog is either mistaken or lying. There is no third option.

bbrian35, very glad you are getting great results with the brace.

[Pooka1]

Here is a thread I started when my conscience was shocked by someone charging $6K for this brace... this article calls into question the ability of the brace to correct double major curves and that is what BigBlueFrog's daughter has. I just wanted her to know about this in case she was considering popping $6K out of pocket.

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9996

[mariaf]

That's very interesting, Sharon - thanks.

It seems the article might be doing more than just "calling into question" the ability of the brace to correct double major curves. I wonder if, in general, pracitioners prescribing this brace are telling folks, upfront, that it has not been found to be effective for double major curves. I sure hope so.

I know this brace has been effective, so far, in many cases - and it seems there is a group of patients who can definitely benefit from it. However, it's important (with ANY treatment method) to target those patients that it is likely to work for. Take VBS, for example - a lot of patients are told up front that they are not ideal candidates for this surgery and are given other treatment options better suited for them, whether it be another surgical procedure, sticking with bracing, etc.

[mamandcrm]

Everyone should fully research any treatment they are considering and consult with experienced and responsible professionals in that regard, and then make an informed judgment as to the best course of action for their child. Any person with a child with double major curves should challenge the suitability of an RC brace for their child given the existence of this study. However, we are discussing here the advice that one person (who is absent from this discussion to give further detail) received from a particular therapist in the course of a therapy session. Please do not generalize, explicitly or implicitly, the experience of one person to others. Many do not have double major curves. And I am sure there are other circumstances for which the RC may not be recommended. However, the Rigo-Cheneau brace is a TLSO brace that, as far as I know, is prescribed by physicians, just as the Boston brace is prescribed by physicians. I am not sure what the term "practitioner" implies. I really dislike having to post in reply to this but it concerns me that anyone may be discouraged from even looking into this brace because of the last couple posts in this thread, and that does those people a disservice. Please recall that the person that started this thread ended up with a satisfactory result as far as the cost of the brace. The RC is not for everyone. But for some, it may be a gift.

[mariaf]

I am not sure what the term "practitioner" implies.

The term "practitioner" was not meant to imply anything in particular.

Please re-read my post - I said explicitly that the brace has been effective for many patients and that I believe certain patients can benefit from it.

As for the rest of my post (regarding folks being told upfront that the brace has not been shown to be effective for double major curves), I fully stand by that.

It is no different than a patient who is considering VBS (but who is, for example, too skeletally mature to benefit from it), being told up front that the procedure is not likely to work. I would expect patients to be advised up front in these case as well - and they are.

I was honestly surprised that you were apparently so upset by folks discussing the data regarding double major curves and that this brace may not be the best choice for those particular patients.

[mamandcrm]

As I said, I was not sure what you meant. Doctors prescribe, so I suppose in re-reading now that you must have meant doctors, in this case orthopedic surgeons. Please re-read my post. It states that anyone with double major curves should "challenge" the use of the brace. This was a thread about the cost of the brace, something that turned out fine for the poster, and everyone else who participated in the thread. But somehow it turned ito something else, the reason for that I do not know. I'm done here.

[Pooka1]

That's very interesting, Sharon - thanks.

It seems the article might be doing more than just "calling into question" the ability of the brace to correct double major curves. I wonder if, in general, practitioners prescribing this brace are telling folks, upfront, that it has not been found to be effective for double major curves. I sure hope so.

I suspect any experienced pediatric orthopedic surgeon would be familiar with the literature enough not to prescribe it for a double major curve (though that one article I posted could be false). I would be shocked if a Schroth type or an orthotist knew about the literature questioning the efficacy of the brace with double major curves. The ignorance of Schroth practitioners in apparently suggesting this brace to all comers irrespective of curve type is in keeping with their general lack of expertise compared to surgeons.

There is some reason many surgeons do not prescribe the RC brace just like there is a reason they largely don't prescribe the Spinecor. I suggest in the case of RC brace there is simply no literature, just claims by the inventor. That article I posted was the only one I found though IIRC I didn't spend too much time looking. If anyone knows of any other articles on this brace I would like to read them. Thanks.

[JessicaNoVa]

To bring this back around to the original topic...

I received an itemized bill for the RSC brace. If anyone is curious, it's as follows:

Body Jacket (molded to patient model): $1800
Additions to TSLO – Thoracic: $805
Additions to TSLO – Lumbar: $170
Additions to TSLO – Kyphosis: $140
Protective Body sock quantity 7: $350
Pads: $340
Casting Supplies: $184
Unspecified additions, Quantity 16 (which I take to mean future adjustments): $755.04


For a total of $4555.04.

[mariaf]

This was a thread about the cost of the brace, something that turned out fine for the poster, and everyone else who participated in the thread. But somehow it turned ito something else.....

That's true. But then again, it's not that unusual for a thread to be inadvertently 'hijacked' during the natural course of discussions. It usually isn't a big deal

[Pooka1]

That's true. But then again, it's not that unusual for a thread to be inadvertently 'hijacked' during the natural course of discussions. It usually isn't a big deal

My intent was to try to prevent someone from potentially getting bilked for a brace that probably isn't appropriate for her daughter. Schroth folks at certain locations suggest this brace in a knee-jerk fashion to all comers apparently. This is plain ignorant. Schroth purveyors are not trained to do research so they don't know what they don't know.

[Pooka1]

for a total of $4555.04.

$6,000 >> $4,555.04

[bbrian35]

There are those who read about it and those who live it and can speak from personal experience. I speak from living it. RCS brace made by Patrick Flanagan working out of Spinal Dynamics in Milwaukee cost less than $3500 for everything from plaster casting to fitting and adjustment. What happens in Stevens Point, I have no knowledge of. To those looking for advice for treatment of a loved one with scoliosis who requires bracing, RSC and Schroth pysical therapy can be valuable in the halting and possible reversal of Cobb angle and vertebral body rotation. Do your homework, find a reputable clinician/MD who treats scoliosis, and for goodness sake, get information from other places than just here. Whether a Boston brace, RSC, Cheneau, or any other treatment is suggested-RESEARCH. Too many people here care more about quoting research they've read than sharing personal experiences and what's worked or not worked for them. Don't let certain posters discourage you. Utilize the private messaging thru this forum and you'll keep out of the mess that certain threads degrade into. My kid's experience with RCS brace and Schroth PT has given her a 9 degree reduction of Cobb angle "out of brace" of her thoracic curve in 6 months. Her posture, has dramatically improved thru Schroth. I'm sure that this outcome up to this point will be attributed to something other than the RCS brace and Scroth PT by someone here. If you are considering Cheneau or RSC brace and would like any info from my payments to providers for bracing and PT to our treatment plan with Dr Thometz at Children's Hospital in Milwaukee-PM me. I'd be happy to share my experience with my daughter's scoliosis with you.