Muscle physiology questions for Dr. McIntire

[flerc]

If you're not wanting to believe in all these therapies, why do you post them?

I don’t know how your brain works, but surely so different that mine.
If I posts about some therapies is not because I'm trying to believe in them but mainly because I'm trying to understand the principles behind them, talking about this with other people. I only want to know the truth, not to heard what obviously I hope that truth might be. Do you think that someone could have any interest in wasting time doing something like this? What a poor concept of some people do you have!

http://www.scoliosislinks.com/AlternativesDontWork.htm

Maybe this article demonstrate that Fed is absolutely unuseful in adults, I don’t know. I’m not sure if really all adults has a terrible vertebrae wedge, but may be you are right, so not brace and surely nothing else could works in adults as I have heard about Fed (at least reducig pain) so few months ago.
But you referred to Fed as a fraud. It belongs to the 100% of therapies I have posted something, so you must to be sure it's a fraud before saying it, and you must to know that Sastre says it works during growth.
So you must to have a great explanation about this.

I would LOVE to see some proof.

This is the great explanation???
You should try to justify your ideas instead of trying to disqualify to others.
If your education, knowledge, intelligence.. mainly EDUCATION not allow you to make comments in other way, as I have seen several times before, please don't make comments any more. Try to just only paste interesting links as you did now or adding also some technical comment. It would be fine to the health of this great Forum and all his members!

If you see that I'll never responds to you any more, you can be sure it is because I have not time to waste as I'm doing now.

[Pooka1]

If I posts about some therapies is not because I'm trying to believe in them but mainly because I'm trying to understand the principles behind them, talking about this with other people. I only want to know the truth, not to heard what obviously I hope that truth might be.

Fer, the truth is there has never been a conservative or alternative therapy that has been proven to permanently reduce a curve yet. If one day it happens, that news will be all over the place, on the front page on the NY Times (above the fold) and that person will get the next Nobel.

The way I monitor success in conservative and alternative scoliosis treatments is to always check the yearly winners of the Nobel in physiology/medicine. If there are no people who invented or discovered a non-surgical scoliosis treatment to permanently reduce curves then there is still none.

I hope this helps you save time reviewing all these non-surgical treatments.

[mamamax]

Fed

There just is nothing like doing even a tiny little bit of research before condemning a therapy/procedure. Good find flerc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456046

Idiopathic scoliosis under 30 degrees in growing patients. A comparative study of the F.E.D. method and other conservative treatments.

Lapuente JP, Sastre S, Barrios C.

Centro Fisioterapéutico de Zaragoza, Maria Moliner, 50-52, 50007 Zaragoza.
Abstract

PROBLEM ADDRESSED: Treatment of scoliosis under 30 degrees Cobb in growing patients remains controversial. Different orthopaedic devices have been developed and used with satisfactory results, alone or in combination with a variety of physiotherapy programs. The F.E.D. method is a dynamic three-dimensional therapy consisting in the application of derotational forces under spine stretching. This method offers some advantages over conventional conservative treatment for scoliosis: shorter treatment period, no use of plasters in many cases, better psychological tolerance, etc. PURPOSE OF THE WORK: In this work, the results of the F.E.D. method were compared to other conservative treatment techniques in scoliosis under 30 degrees Cobb angle and Risser 3 or less. RESEARCH METHOD: Both the F.E.D. group and the group of patients treated by traditional orthopaedic methods included 30 children. Patients were divided on the basis of the type of scoliotic deformity: thoracic, thoracolumbar or lumbar. SUMMARY OF RESULTS AND FINDINGS: The results obtained showed that patients treated with the F.E.D. method had a significantly better outcome than the other methods in terms of angle correction and shorter period of treatment necessary to reach correction. CONCLUSION: The F.E.D. method can be considered as the elective treatment in growing adolescents with scoliosis under 30 degrees.

[mamamax]

FED Continued

Flerc - Like many of us you explore everything you can find. I have very much enjoyed your efforts in that area. I am always exploring too.

FED seems a very interesting subject. I have written to the people you referenced to ask more about their method ... anyone with an inquiring mind could do the same ;-) http://www.sastre-roca.com/contacto.html

Also found this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456047

Stud Health Technol Inform. 2002;88:270-8.
Benefits of F.E.D. treatment in Scheuermann's disease.
Sastre S, Lapuente JP, Barrios C.
Centro de Rehabilitación y Medicina Física, Aribau 298-30, 08006 Barcelona.

Abstract

PROBLEM ADDRESSED: Scheuermann's disease or deforming vertebral osteochondritis affects about 5% of the population. These patients become permanent users of rehabilitation services due to their discomfort. In periods of acute pain patients can only receive palliative and not very effective treatment. PURPOSE OF THE WORK: In this study 30 patients who fulfil the criteria for diagnosis of Scheuermann's disease were treated with the F.E.D. device. By using this method, a back pressure of up to 100 kg can be applied at the apex of the kyphosis, stretching the anterior common vertebral ligament in an attempt to diminish complaint. RESEARCH METHOD: There were 14 men and 16 women with ages ranging from 15 to 35 years old. The mean kyphotic angle was 53 degrees (range, 45-65). Patients had an average Risser of 4.75 (range, 3-5). Schöber's test disclosed a range of values from 0 to 2.5 cm (mean, 0.78). The average period of treatment was 4 months (80 sessions of treatment). SUMMARY OF RESULTS AND FINDINGS: All the 30 patients referred disappearance of thoracic back pain after treatment. This pain relief effect was permanent for the time of follow-up. Kyphotic angle decreased from a mean of 30 degrees Cobb to 45 degrees (16% correction). A home physiotherapy program was recommended to all the patients in order to maintain dorsal elasticity as measured by Schöber's test. After treatment, the mean Schöber test value was 2.92. In cases treated during the growing period, where alterations in the spine were minimal or did not show radiographic alterations, progression of the kyphotic deformity was stopped. CONCLUSION: The F.E.D. device has shown to be a promising method both for the treatment of complaints in stabilised Scheuermann's disease and control of the progression of kyphotic deformity in the growing spine.

[Pooka1]

There just is nothing like doing even a tiny little bit of research before condemning a therapy/procedure. Good find flerc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15456046

Idiopathic scoliosis under 30 degrees in growing patients. A comparative study of the F.E.D. method and other conservative treatments.

Lapuente JP, Sastre S, Barrios C.

Centro Fisioterapéutico de Zaragoza, Maria Moliner, 50-52, 50007 Zaragoza.
Abstract

PROBLEM ADDRESSED: Treatment of scoliosis under 30 degrees Cobb in growing patients remains controversial. Different orthopaedic devices have been developed and used with satisfactory results, alone or in combination with a variety of physiotherapy programs. The F.E.D. method is a dynamic three-dimensional therapy consisting in the application of derotational forces under spine stretching. This method offers some advantages over conventional conservative treatment for scoliosis: shorter treatment period, no use of plasters in many cases, better psychological tolerance, etc. PURPOSE OF THE WORK: In this work, the results of the F.E.D. method were compared to other conservative treatment techniques in scoliosis under 30 degrees Cobb angle and Risser 3 or less. RESEARCH METHOD: Both the F.E.D. group and the group of patients treated by traditional orthopaedic methods included 30 children. Patients were divided on the basis of the type of scoliotic deformity: thoracic, thoracolumbar or lumbar. SUMMARY OF RESULTS AND FINDINGS: The results obtained showed that patients treated with the F.E.D. method had a significantly better outcome than the other methods in terms of angle correction and shorter period of treatment necessary to reach correction. CONCLUSION: The F.E.D. method can be considered as the elective treatment in growing adolescents with scoliosis under 30 degrees.

This is short term and irrelevant to the long term unless they show it.

And do they have to continue the treatment for life?

And did they have a control group?

Mainly, this study was published in 2002. Eight years ago. Why do you suppose it hasn't revolutionized scoliosis treament in all those ensuing years? I suggest it is related to the lack of a permanent curve reduction when treatment is stopped. If it prevented even a single surgery we would know about it by now I think.

[hdugger]

Very interesting, mamamax. Thanks for finding the research.

[mamamax]

hdugger - You're welcome. I look forward to some correspondence with the folks in Spain. And I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you for all your great research, and input on this board :-)

[flerc]

And do they have to continue the treatment for life?

No, without any doubt. The use for adults is something 'extra' emerging I think a very short time ago in Spain.

[flerc]

Flerc - [COLOR="Navy"]Like many of us you explore everything you can find. I have very much enjoyed your efforts in that area. I am always exploring too.

Thanks mamamax, I enjoy very much all your efforts too, like this research!

[mamamax]

Thanks mamamax, I enjoy very much all your efforts too, like this research!

You are welcome flerc.

Talk about research efforts - Dingo takes the prize this night :-)

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...378#post101378

[Lorraine 1966]

For those to remove their blinkers I think "Concerned dad" hit the nail on the head. He deserved the prize months ago.

That means found out the truth in the end after intense research. I shudder to think about other countries beside Spain are in on the band wagon. Linda Racine can certainly look after herself as far as comments go but personally I don't see any need for her to even have to, her knowledge speaks for itself. Anyone who cares to find all this out I know will agree with me.

As usual Sharon I applaud you.

Lorraine McIntyre( had a bit of a giggle at my last name bit of a different spelling)

[Pooka1]

For those to remove their blinkers I think "Concerned dad" hit the nail on the head. He deserved the prize months ago.

Agreed. His contributions to this forum will stand forever. Truly an open-minded guy who doesn't blink in the face of evidence (or lack of it). That takes guts.

Lorraine McIntyre( had a bit of a giggle at my last name bit of a different spelling)

Hey! I'll start a thread entitled, "Questions for Lorraine McIntyre" if you like.

[mamamax]

For those to remove their blinkers I think "Concerned dad" hit the nail on the head. He deserved the prize months ago.

Hey Lorraine :-) I do hope CD is here and reading this. There is much hope for the future ... I think he would agree.

[Lorraine 1966]

Ha,ha thanks Sharon, but shall I say very sweetly and smiling "I will decline" thank you. Richard Feynman, WOW, JUST LOVE THAT QUOTE.

Maxine, I do wish CD was still around, very much so. I would love to see how things are going with him,and his family, also, I think he would appreciate that he is still remembered fondly and with admiration, anyhow back to the subject which I am thoroughly enjoying reading.


Lorraine.

[mamamax]

Maxine, I do wish CD was still around, very much so. I would love to see how things are going with him,and his family, also, I think he would appreciate that he is still remembered fondly and with admiration, anyhow back to the subject which I am thoroughly enjoying reading.


Lorraine.

Me too! I can't imagine that anyone didn't have an affinity for CD - he was quick to praise good thinking, and had a good eye for woeful errors. And he was one to never humiliate or diminish another. Good man, Good role model & Much missed!