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  • #31
    Is it just me, or does my L3/L4 disc look wedged in the 2010 film? I compared it to the other ones and didn't see any wedging on them. I'm sure it's not a big deal as I'm not having a tremendous amount of lower back pain or at least no more than most people my age complain of. Just an occaisional ache. I haven't had to have an epidural injection for a long time and don't feel the need to at all as my lower back is really good now. I just wanted some input. Thanks. I think I will look at the side views to see if I can see a difference there (I don't post those on here).
    Be happy!
    We don't know what tomorrow brings,
    but we are alive today!

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    • #32
      rohrer01,

      I think for disk wedging or really bulging to cause pain and spinal nerve root pinching it’d have to be significant. Yours don’t look that bad to my eyes, maybe someone else can comment on it.

      Attached picture shows what the apex of my curve looks like, I actually don’t have major pain issues, or rather paint doesn’t seem to match what my scans show from the misshapened vertebrae which has caused my discs to undergo thinning/bulging. The image is from MRI, which is why everything is seen so clear.
      30 something y.o.

      2003 - T45, L???
      2005 - T50, L31
      bunch of measurements between...

      2011 - T60, L32
      2013 - T68, L?

      Posterior Fusion Sept 2014 -- T3 - L3
      Post - op curve ~35


      Comment


      • #33
        rohr, any chance you can see another pain doc who uses botox and who takes your insurance
        or is in your insurance network....?
        i think i mentioned to you that i have not met pain docs, unless they are also surgeons, who are in favor of
        fusion surgery for scoliosis, so what you say about your pain doc does not surprise me...

        hope you feel better...
        jess

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by green m&m View Post
          rohrer01,

          I think for disk wedging or really bulging to cause pain and spinal nerve root pinching it’d have to be significant. Yours don’t look that bad to my eyes, maybe someone else can comment on it.

          Attached picture shows what the apex of my curve looks like, I actually don’t have major pain issues, or rather paint doesn’t seem to match what my scans show from the misshapened vertebrae which has caused my discs to undergo thinning/bulging. The image is from MRI, which is why everything is seen so clear.
          Thanks for responding. It looks like you have a very nasty spondolisthesis going on there along with that wedged disc. It looks like bone on bone. You are saying it doesn't hurt all that bad? Are you getting surgery? I hope all goes well with you and you can find a way to stop your progression so you aren't in a tremendous amount of pain.
          Be happy!
          We don't know what tomorrow brings,
          but we are alive today!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by jrnyc View Post
            rohr, any chance you can see another pain doc who uses botox and who takes your insurance
            or is in your insurance network....?
            i think i mentioned to you that i have not met pain docs, unless they are also surgeons, who are in favor of
            fusion surgery for scoliosis, so what you say about your pain doc does not surprise me...

            hope you feel better...
            jess
            I'm on a stupid HMO. That's why I can't even get a second opinion from a scoli doc. My physiatrist is working on trying to get botox authorized for my headaches. I have to try and fail every other treatment for my insurance to pay. I don't think he wants to do my T-spine since that is where all the problems are. There was more progression in just a years time. Whoever it was that took the measurements this time WAY undermeasured my curves. He did note in the report that the lower curve had progressed. My doc doesn't want to paralyze any muscles for fear of causing further collapse. We'll see about the headaches, though. There's a risk of getting droopy neck if I accidentally get too much. Then I'll have to be in a c-collar for about three months until it wears off. That kind of scares me. Maybe the botox isn't damaging to you because your problems are mainly down lower and the upper is compensatory? I'm just guessing. Thanks for thinking of me and asking. My anesthesiologist moved. I have to get a new one. I won't need one, though, until my lower back goes out again which is hopefully, NEVER! Take Care.
            Be happy!
            We don't know what tomorrow brings,
            but we are alive today!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rohrer01 View Post
              Thanks for responding. It looks like you have a very nasty spondolisthesis going on there along with that wedged disc. It looks like bone on bone. You are saying it doesn't hurt all that bad? Are you getting surgery? I hope all goes well with you and you can find a way to stop your progression so you aren't in a tremendous amount of pain.
              That's a coronal view, so there's no way of seeing a spondylolisthesis.
              Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
              Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
                That's a coronal view, so there's no way of seeing a spondylolisthesis.
                My bad. Thanks for the correction. I just saw the vertebra shifted out there. It still looks awefully painful... What would you call it, then?

                Also, what is "negative saggital balance"?

                Thanks in advance.
                Be happy!
                We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                but we are alive today!

                Comment


                • #38
                  I'd have to see X-rays, but I think it may be a fracture.

                  Negative sagittal balance is when the person is actually leaning back. Positive sagittal balance is when the person is bent forward (far more common than negative).
                  Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                  Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    hey rohr
                    i have an HMO as well...they have never rejected the botox claims...it is medical...i found out about botox for
                    these kinds of problems when a woman at work told me she was getting botox for hip problems....
                    we were both social workers at public schools in NYC...i imagine she had an HMO as well...

                    i get the botox in upper spine only...i do not know that my upper curve of 42(last measure almost 2 years ago) is compensatory....
                    i just know it is there, along with listhesis (in upper spine), hypokyphosis, rotation, DDD, lumbar curve of 61 (last measure almost
                    2 years ago), spinal stenosis and spinal arthritis...i dont know what it is with the SI joints, but the only lower spine relief i
                    get is from SI joint injections...epidural injections never relieved the pain, nor did facet block or nerve ablation...
                    i just got a new full spine X ray 2 weeks ago...i havent looked at it yet...but the pain doc who does SI joint injections
                    and who is also a surgeon will go over it with me when i see him for shots in January...
                    it was Lonner who read the X ray 2 years ago, so now i will be dealing with observer subjectivity/bias with other doctors reading
                    the new X ray...

                    by now i have been to 5 different pain management docs over the last 8 years or so, and kept 2 of them...
                    one was anesthesiologist as well, and i don't see him anymore...one is also a surgeon, and he is one of the pain docs i still see...
                    my HMO never restricted me to one doctor or one surgical opinion...as a matter if fact, they told me there is no such
                    thing as a "second opinion" anymore in their way of thinking...
                    once i picked up Medicare, the HMO became secondary...the main difference is that for Medicare i don't need referrals
                    any more...a benefit to be sure...

                    i hope you can find a pain doc who uses botox so you can see if it could help you...

                    jess

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      My doc looked into my policy and my insurance doesn't pay for it except for migraine treatment after all other methods have been tried and failed. All insurance is not created equally. It sounds like you have a better plan than mine. I don't need referrals IF I stay in-network, and the network is pretty big. But, there are NO scoli docs at all in-network. I think they are actually working on that, as the hospital now advertises they have a "spine clinic". Yeah, right.

                      The trigger point injections are helping. I was actually weaning off my percocets pretty well and starting to exercise. Now this morning I woke up with this SHARP stabbing pain in the bones of my neck if I try to turn my head at all. I resorted to taking my pain meds and putting my c-collar on, bummer. Maybe it will go away.

                      I was hoping to be OFF all pain meds by January as I'm probably having surgery then for another problem (female related). I want my tolerance to be down for those drugs, or I'm going to be in big trouble come surgery time! One pain added onto another pain. I hate the cumulative effect it has on the body and mind!

                      Thanks again for thinking of me. I definitely wish I could try the botox, but at a thousand dollars per injection, I can't afford to pay out of pocket. I'm already paying $830 per month for just the stupid insurance AND they quit paying 100% and added a 10% co-insurance. They did lower the copay BUT they also added a deductible! All of this is AFTER raising our premiums! I think they know I'm gonna need surgery and they are making the whole group suffer. This stuff ain't cheap!
                      Be happy!
                      We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                      but we are alive today!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by LindaRacine View Post
                        I'd have to see X-rays, but I think it may be a fracture.

                        Negative sagittal balance is when the person is actually leaning back. Positive sagittal balance is when the person is bent forward (far more common than negative).
                        That's really strange. Why would I be leaning back? You'd think I would be falling backwards. Maybe my center of balance is different because of the curve? I have only 6* of kyphosis in my T-spine. Maybe that's the reason.

                        Thanks, Linda.
                        Be happy!
                        We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                        but we are alive today!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          You're probably right.
                          Never argue with an idiot. They always drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience. --Twain
                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Surgery 2/10/93 A/P fusion T4-L3
                          Surgery 1/20/11 A/P fusion L2-sacrum w/pelvic fixation

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rohrer01 View Post
                            That's really strange. Why would I be leaning back? You'd think I would be falling backwards. Maybe my center of balance is different because of the curve? I have only 6* of kyphosis in my T-spine. Maybe that's the reason.

                            Thanks, Linda.
                            And to think that one doctor had the nerve to tell me, at the ripe old age of 16 or 17, that I would be one of those old ladies with a rounded back! NOT something you say to a teenager, for sure. I'm kind of thinking he didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about, since I have the opposite problem, as HE should have known. But, when you go to a free clinic, you see a different doctor every time and they are in training. Maybe he was referring to my rib hump? Still, it was tactless enough that it still offends me to this day. I wish I could remember who it was!
                            Be happy!
                            We don't know what tomorrow brings,
                            but we are alive today!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              i went to a scoli doctor in NYC, first one i saw before i knew better...
                              he said i have a "hump back"
                              i said "could you use a more medical term? my girlfriend can call it a hump back and she doesn't charge me!
                              it was Dr Sean McCance, by the way...
                              only good thing he did was order a myleogram for me...

                              jess

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                negative saggital balance

                                Hi rohrer,

                                I had negative saggital balance pre-op as well. In my case I think it was because i have a very hypokyphotic thorax (like you describe), and because my lumbar area had a loss of lordosis due to arthritis/degenerative changes. I would have been very bent over forward from the lumbar and my head would have been forward from the plumb line. So to compensate, my spine sort of shifted back in the lower thoracic area, which kept my head from tipping forward, but gave me negative saggital imbalance. I believe it is not really of much consequence or progressive.
                                Gayle, age 50
                                Oct 2010 fusion T8-sacrum w/ pelvic fixation
                                Feb 2012 lumbar revision for broken rods @ L2-3-4
                                Sept 2015 major lumbar A/P revision for broken rods @ L5-S1


                                mom of Leah, 15 y/o, Diagnosed '08 with 26* T JIS (age 6)
                                2010 VBS Dr Luhmann Shriners St Louis
                                2017 curves stable/skeletely mature

                                also mom of Torrey, 12 y/o son, 16* T, stable

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