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Thread: Dystonia is the historical/current cause?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    Agree completely. Balance doesn't do a lot of good if your curve is progressing.
    I’m so afraid about compensatory curves!. It seems really like a good conclusion of roher01. I never realized before how much dangerous could be good cosmetic, although an osteopath friend told me once something similar as she said.
    I think if the body is moved to another position but accompanying the spine, such as it occurs when it is stretched, even with heavy weight it should not be dangerous. But I’m not sure. Do you think that it could also be dangerous?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    I think a good scientist will always be skeptical but will also remain open to a new idea. Perhaps the classification would be "optimistically skeptical'. But not so optimistic that we follow every rabbit into it's hole and not so skeptical we don't follow any rabbits.
    Scathing, scorched earth, take no prisoners skepticism seems to work for me.

    Anything that makes it through that is clever enough to catch my attention.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I’m so afraid about compensatory curves!. It seems really like a good conclusion of roher01. I never realized before how much dangerous could be good cosmetic, although an osteopath friend told me once something similar as she said.
    I think if the body is moved to another position but accompanying the spine, such as it occurs when it is stretched, even with heavy weight it should not be dangerous. But I’m not sure. Do you think that it could also be dangerous?
    I'm not sure I'm understanding your question here.

    I can say that the goal for Schroth and another postural therapy, side shift, is to address each component of the curve. Breaking the curve into four or five components - neck/shoulders; thoracic; thoraco-lumbar; lumbar; pelvis. Depending on the major curve, each component will derotate and shift in order to bring the spine into alignment. I can see that if you straighten one part of the spine but do not address the compensatory movements, that could be bad. I've seen this happen with some people in a brace. They control the main curve and lower compensatory curve but what happens is the compensatory curve in the high thoracic region begins to progress. This doesn't happen all the time, but it's certainly something the doctors and brace people will watch.

    A compensatory curve can also be a good thing. In some situations it balances the spine and can help to stabilize the curve.

    Overall, though, it's hard to say.

  4. #49
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    I was referring to that post of Roher01

    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    I'm not sure I'm understanding your question here.

    But even though postural appearance is a complaint among many with scoliosis, my opinion is that postural training, such as I did as a child can be dangerous in scoliosis patients. The reason being is that a curve has developed, now you are telling the body to bend the other way creating a compensatory curve.
    I think compensatory curves as you said could be good, but if its have been done in a natural way by the body but not as a response to something strange. I know about people than after some kind of therapies (not Schroth) developed compensatory curves that not exist before, just only adding more curves to her spine. Surely a great knowledge is required to know what kind of movements could be performed. I think that despite medicine is not an exact science, some medical issues are absolutely clear and structured in same way. There is not discussion about what could be good or bad. Could be say the some about the spinal movements? If I show a complex spinal movement to a doctor, could he really know if it could be good or not?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    Scathing, scorched earth, take no prisoners skepticism seems to work for me.

    Anything that makes it through that is clever enough to catch my attention.
    Yeah. I got that sense about you.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    Yeah. I got that sense about you.
    You're doing your post doc now. I am about 20 years out of mine and working as a research scientist that entire time.

    May I email you in about 20 years please?
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I'll go over GPR more in depht soon. Thanks for all!
    skevimc, sorely I not found this page in English. I hope it would be clear with Google translator; of course say me please if I can help to you.

    http://www.rpg.org.ar/es/index.php?o...eres&Itemid=52

    I think that if dystonia is a current cause of the curve and it potential progression after growth, GPR could be a good treatment because they suppose that an excessive tone is present in skeletally deformities (as in some way could be say that happens with dystonia), and they try to fight against it. I’m reasoning in a right way?
    Do you know why could I know if in fact the muscular weakness of my daughter is a relative weakness as they say? Some other people in my country said me that she need urgently to strengthen her muscles (in the classic way), and Gpr Physio says to me that it would be incompatibly with Gpr treatment, so I’d should to choice one of them.
    As with much others scoliosis issues, I don’t know what to believe.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka1 View Post
    You're doing your post doc now. I am about 20 years out of mine and working as a research scientist that entire time.

    May I email you in about 20 years please?
    Yes, I'm a newbie and still idealistic. I'm sure I'll get roughed up in a decade or two.

    What is your field?

    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    skevimc, sorely I not found this page in English. I hope it would be clear with Google translator; of course say me please if I can help to you.


    I think that if dystonia is a current cause of the curve and it potential progression after growth, GPR could be a good treatment because they suppose that an excessive tone is present in skeletally deformities (as in some way could be say that happens with dystonia), and they try to fight against it. I’m reasoning in a right way?
    Do you know why could I know if in fact the muscular weakness of my daughter is a relative weakness as they say? Some other people in my country said me that she need urgently to strengthen her muscles (in the classic way), and Gpr Physio says to me that it would be incompatibly with Gpr treatment, so I’d should to choice one of them.
    As with much others scoliosis issues, I don’t know what to believe.
    I'll look at it. I have it translated and will see if I can understand it. I'm sure I'll be able to get the basic idea.

    In my opinion, assuming there is no connective tissue disorder, I generally don't think there is ever anything wrong with strengthening muscles. So I'll see if I can figure out why the RPG therapists say it is contraindicated.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I think that if dystonia is a current cause of the curve and it potential progression after growth, GPR could be a good treatment because they suppose that an excessive tone is present in skeletally deformities (as in some way could be say that happens with dystonia), and they try to fight against it. I’m reasoning in a right way?
    Yes, you have the correct reasoning. As I see it, the hard part is confirming that one side has a higher tone versus the other side having a lower tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    Do you know why could I know if in fact the muscular weakness of my daughter is a relative weakness as they say? Some other people in my country said me that she need urgently to strengthen her muscles (in the classic way), and Gpr Physio says to me that it would be incompatibly with Gpr treatment, so I’d should to choice one of them.
    As with much others scoliosis issues, I don’t know what to believe.
    Our studies showed that there is an apparent weakness when rotating towards the concavity. This was confirmed because the strength towards the convexity were similar to girls without scoliosis and the concavity was less. So it's most likely a weakness as opposed to an increased strength.

    Using the article... Their description using images 5 and 6 is pretty good. Their subsequent treatment is to stretch the weak side and that will bring things back into balance. Our idea was to strengthen both sides to an equal degree. So after training, both sides had equal strength as well as being much stronger. They are suggesting that strength training is not good in this case because strengthening might increase the imbalance and increase the amount of force on the vertebrae which could speed up progression. That is a logical conclusion. However, I disagree with it because of the goal of strength training is to create strength symmetry.

    I think the idea of releasing/stretching is very good. Especially the quadratus lumborum.

    I think RPG plus strengthening would compliment each other very well. But I understand why the RPG therapists would disagree.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    Yes, I'm a newbie and still idealistic. I'm sure I'll get roughed up in a decade or two.

    What is your field?
    I'm in the earth sciences though have taken some biology, biochemistry, etc. classes.

    So basically I am unarmed, other then with the scientific method, to be addressing any scoliosis research.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by skevimc View Post
    Yes, you have the correct reasoning. As I see it, the hard part is confirming that one side has a higher tone versus the other side having a lower tone.



    Our studies showed that there is an apparent weakness when rotating towards the concavity. This was confirmed because the strength towards the convexity were similar to girls without scoliosis and the concavity was less. So it's most likely a weakness as opposed to an increased strength.

    Using the article... Their description using images 5 and 6 is pretty good. Their subsequent treatment is to stretch the weak side and that will bring things back into balance. Our idea was to strengthen both sides to an equal degree. So after training, both sides had equal strength as well as being much stronger. They are suggesting that strength training is not good in this case because strengthening might increase the imbalance and increase the amount of force on the vertebrae which could speed up progression. That is a logical conclusion. However, I disagree with it because of the goal of strength training is to create strength symmetry.

    I think the idea of releasing/stretching is very good. Especially the quadratus lumborum.

    I think RPG plus strengthening would compliment each other very well. But I understand why the RPG therapists would disagree.
    Hi skevimc, I could not answer you earlier. You don't know how much you are helping me and how grateful I am with you. Is great for me to know your opinion about Rpg
    My daughter made only one session of the other therapy to strengthen muscles and then she had some back pain and cramps, which had been dissolved for more than a year. We suspended immediately this therapy, although the therapist told us that these cramps were due to inactivity and weakness of those muscles, which could lead to progression in a short time. Of course the concern is great, although we really trust in the RPG Physio, who told us he spent several sessions in order to normalize the effect of such strengthening sessions. According to what I understand, she also says that is not much useful to focus on the voluntary muscles as she think, that therapy was doing. http://www.rpg.org.ar/divorcio.htm
    I wish I could do a study to determine if in addition to the difference in tone, she actually has a weakness so alarming as it says the therapist, who is also well known in my country and it is also medical.
    I also believe that strength training would be a good one. I think that heavy weight over the shoulders, as I said in other post, should to works, but I'm terrified of doing something that the Rpg Physio not agrees.
    She is focused in avoid progression and pain, of course the most important of all, but I think it is not possible to be sure if it could be for ever, so I want to reduce some significant degrees and I have some ideas to do that. But she don't listen to me because I have not medical knowledge and she think that I only repeat what I read in Internet, without any understanding. Sure my knowledge is insignificant, so is so important to know people so wise and with a genuine intention to help like you.

    Thanks again!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by flerc View Post
    I was referring to that post of Roher01

    I think that despite medicine is not an exact science, some medical issues are absolutely clear and structured in same way. There is not discussion about what could be good or bad. Could be say the some about the spinal movements? If I show a complex spinal movement to a doctor, could he really know if it could be good or not?
    skevimc, the concept of Mézières http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Método_Mézières about muscular chains should to be an important issue, no? I don´t know if it is known by all doctors. It's one of the main issues of all Mézières' Schools as Rpg or Antigynastic. I'm sure you'll like the Mézières' story.

    Regards

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