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Thread: Hr 4872

  1. #16
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    Aug 2007
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    There will likely be more gatekeeping for services. People who are not "vigorous" are more likely to have certain procedures denied. Vigorous is the word my mother's doctor used when he was trying to convey to my mother that something like hip replacement surgery wouldn't necessarily be denied to her under the new system because of her age. Rather if it was someone her age who also had, for example, cancer or cirrhosis and therefore who "based on evidence" or statistics doesn't have a great chance of a long remaining life who might be denied a hip replacement (or spinal fusion). Just an example.

    Or some of those premie babies who statistically do not have a good shot of surviving...the parents may lose the choice of whether expensive measures can be taken (unless they have a trust fund).

    I find the uncertainty of it kind of scary - who and how will these decisions be made? What decisions will be made?

    Our insurance coverage runs from mid year to mid year so we'll probably find out before most people how premiums will be impacted. I know they will go up substantially (they're already pretty high), but that's almost the least of it (even though it is important also)...I'm more concerned about access to services in the future. I guess it will play out over the next year or so...

    I wonder how quickly before the med school enrollment goes down and the more highly qualified students decide to pursue other careers?
    daughter, 12, diagnosed 8/07 with 19T/13L
    -Braced in spinecor 10/07 - 8/12 with excellent in brace correction and stable/slightly decreased out of brace curves.
    -Introduced Providence brace as adjunct at night in 11/2011 in anticipation of growth spurt. Curves still stable.
    -Currently in Boston Brace. Growth spurt is here and curves (and rotation) have increased to 23T/17L

  2. #17
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    May 2009
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    very confusing...one person says the premiums will be limited by law...another says the premiums will go up substantially...dont know which it will be...

    i didnt have "excellent" insurance when i worked...i had average insurance! and i had to retire due to severe pain! i really would have preferred to keep on working...especially since i took a hit on my pension that i worked so hard for! i couldnt even afford to take months off to have the surgery...but that is a whole other story...

    now that i am retired, i pay a whole lotta money to cover myself...and now my husband, too...even with that, i go to some doctors who dont take insurance, for their special knowledge...or some who just dont take MY insurance...like Dr Anand....and Dr Boachie...and i get no reimbursement...must go to in network doctors only...

    i have no sympathy for any folks who now dont want to be doctors cause maybe they wont get as rich...there are lots of doctors who stop taking insurance as soon as they build their practice! maybe some doctors will have to live on similar salaries to that of teachers...oh heavens...what a hardship!

    jess

  3. #18
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    Apr 2009
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    Case 3:10-cv-00091-RV-EMT

    On March 23rd, Attorney Generals from fourteen states Lawyered-up and filed legal action against the US Department of Health & Human Services, Department of the Treasury, and the Department of Labor in a complaint that basically says that this bill is unconstitutional.

    Was reading through the complaint which is available on the Internet - seems Medicaid under this new bill will be expanded beyond what some states believe is even financially possible given the current economic outlook - and that Medicaid participation by states was originally set up to be voluntary, not manditory. Another "talking point" is the tax that will be levied against citizens who do not have insurance by 2014 which will involve a penalty against them of approximately $700 or 2.5% of their income (whichever is greater). The only exemption being for those who do not earn enough to pay taxes in the first place. After 2016 the "penalty" will increase annually. My first thought was - what if someone doesn't pay up?

    The complaint is 23 pages long and I'm not done reading it yet. It is odd that not 1 Republican voted in favor of this bill. That's quite a statement.

    I'm really surprised we haven't seen more town hall meetings about all this. I live in a state that is leading the way in this 14-state law suit and we are famous for such things.
    Last edited by mamamax; 03-25-2010 at 06:10 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamamax View Post
    It is odd that not 1 Republican voted in favor of this bill. That's quite a statement.
    It's a statement alright but not the one you are thinking about.

    Republicans continually voting against their own interest is so strange that it is finally attracting attention and study of social scientists...

    http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haid...t08_index.html

    I am not a social scientist and I'm not convinced it is even a science but I think it is obvious why people vote against their interest in say economic matters... it's to have their way on social matters. They do what they need to in order to impose their social views on innocent people.

    Their economic views are not crazy per se but their social views are because they are totalitarian.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  5. #20
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    This bill is about helping the less rich - persons who cannot afford to buy insurance, those who have lost it and preventing the disasters which can befall anyone. When I was a child-1956- having my first scoliosis surgery there was no medical insurance/only hospitalization. My surgery was $2000;my dad made ~ $5K. It practically wiped us out.

    My brother in law had cancer in his 50's, college educated, good job-- lost insurance because he could not work during treatment, lost his house and declared medical bankruptcy. Don't think it cannot happen to you.

    We do not see many on the forum without insurance because help of any kind for their scoliosis was impossible.

    Yes the money will come from some increases taxes. It seems the more fortunate(insured) in this country are afraid of helping and don't want any sharing of their wealth with the less fortunate.
    How we care for the weakest, less fortunate in a society shows the true values we hold as a country.
    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Ocker View Post
    This bill is about helping the less rich - persons who cannot afford to buy insurance, those who have lost it and preventing the disasters which can befall anyone. When I was a child-1956- having my first scoliosis surgery there was no medical insurance/only hospitalization. My surgery was $2000;my dad made ~ $5K. It practically wiped us out.

    My brother in law had cancer in his 50's, college educated, good job-- lost insurance because he could not work during treatment, lost his house and declared medical bankruptcy. Don't think it cannot happen to you.

    We do not see many on the forum without insurance because help of any kind for their scoliosis was impossible.

    Yes the money will come from some increases taxes. It seems the more fortunate(insured) in this country are afraid of helping and don't want any sharing of their wealth with the less fortunate.
    How we care for the weakest, less fortunate in a society shows the true values we hold as a country.
    Excellent post Karen!

    Completely agree.
    Last edited by Pooka1; 03-25-2010 at 06:35 PM. Reason: went a little overboard
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  7. #22
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    Oct 2008
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    Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
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    Absolutely!
    Surgery March 3, 2009 at almost 58, now 63.
    Dr. Askin, Brisbane, Australia
    T4-Pelvis, Posterior only
    Osteotomies and Laminectomies
    Was 68 degrees, now 22 and pain free

  8. #23
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    Hey Sharon
    loved that article in the link you posted! will take me awhile to re read it...as i just had dental implants on wednesday...OUCH! something to distract me from my scoli and disc pain!! oh goody

    jess

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrnyc View Post
    Hey Sharon
    loved that article in the link you posted! will take me awhile to re read it...as i just had dental implants on wednesday...OUCH! something to distract me from my scoli and disc pain!! oh goody

    jess
    Truth is stranger than fiction with certain political ideologies.

    Good luck with those implants.
    Sharon, mother of identical twin girls with scoliosis

    No island of sanity.

    Question: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
    Answer: Medicine


    "We are all African."

  10. #25
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    Chicago north suburb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Ocker View Post
    This bill is about helping the less rich - persons who cannot afford to buy insurance, those who have lost it and preventing the disasters which can befall anyone. When I was a child-1956- having my first scoliosis surgery there was no medical insurance/only hospitalization. My surgery was $2000;my dad made ~ $5K. It practically wiped us out.

    My brother in law had cancer in his 50's, college educated, good job-- lost insurance because he could not work during treatment, lost his house and declared medical bankruptcy. Don't think it cannot happen to you.

    We do not see many on the forum without insurance because help of any kind for their scoliosis was impossible.

    Yes the money will come from some increases taxes. It seems the more fortunate(insured) in this country are afraid of helping and don't want any sharing of their wealth with the less fortunate.
    How we care for the weakest, less fortunate in a society shows the true values we hold as a country.

    Oh, pleeezzzze! This bill is not about helping the less fortunate. It was never even about health care reform. Itís about government gaining further control of our lives. If itís so wonderful, why is Congress exempt from it? By the way, Fidel Castro is doing cartwheels over passage of this bill.

  11. #26
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    reno,nevada
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    I agree.
    Our government does like to control. There is no doubt about that.

    Proof seems to come on a daily basis....

    The only thing we can do, is to wait till the ball is pitched.

    The amount of fines they plan to collect for not having insurance, is mind blowing.
    Ed
    49 yr old male, now 55, the new 45...
    Pre surgery curves C12,T70,L70
    A/P T2-Pelvis 01/29/08, 01/31/08 7" pelvic anchors BMP
    Dr Brett Menmuir St Marys Hospital Reno,Nevada

    Bending and twisting pics after full fusion
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showt...on.&highlight=

    My x-rays
    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...2&d=1228779214

    http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/attac...3&d=1228779258

  12. #27
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    ny
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    I,too, am skeptical about this bill. While I agree that our current healthcare system leaves much to be desired, I'm not sure this bill is going to accomplish what some folks are claiming it will. And as Ed mentioned, the fines to be imposed are mind-boggling.

    Also, so many cities and states are in financial distress. In the NY area alone, it seems there is a story every day on the news about layoffs (cops, firemen, teachers). They are talking about cuts in the transportation program to the point where they want to take away - for the first time in decades - free student metro cards - a cut that many families can't afford. So where is all this money going to come from? Once again out of the pockets of the average Joe??

    I can't agree with Karen's statement that:

    'the more fortunate(insured) in this country are afraid of helping and don't want any sharing of their wealth with the less fortunate.'

    My family is 'insured' but we are far from 'fortunate' finanically - my husband and I work hard just to make ends meet and cannot afford any more dipping into our pockets.

    But, more importantly, I hope we don't end up in a similar situation as other countries, where the wait for care is ridiculously long. For example, I personally know a few families from Canada who came to Shriners in the U.S. because the wait for care in Canada was so long. I've heard similar stories about wait times from a friend living in Italy.

    Most people I've talked to do not think this bill will be good for the average, working middle-class family. I truly hope we're all wrong.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 15, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently holding around 26 degrees)
    Under care of Dr. Randal Betz since 2004

    Also mom to Nicole (22) and Danny (25)

    Link to VBS Website: www.vertebralstapling.com

    Janet Cerrone, PA to Dr. Betz janetcerrone@spineandscoliosis.com or (609) 912-1500

  13. #28
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    ny
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    A friend sent me this - while I have no way of knowing for sure if the claims are totally accurate (I sure hope not) this has appeared on several websites - and the quotes are attributed to a former county judge in Texas, David Kithil.

    In a recent article, he voiced his opposition to the bill as follows:

    "I have reviewed selected sections of the bill and find it unbelievable that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, could come up with a bill loaded with so many wrong-headed elements. We do need to breform the health insurance system in America in order to make coveragebaffordable and available to everyone. But, how many of us believe our federal government can manage a new program any better than the bankrupt Medicare program or the underfunded Social Security program? Both Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the financial mess of those two programs.

    He goes on.....I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons.

    To start with, it is estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000new employees will be required to administer HB3200. That is an unacceptable expansion of a government that is already too intrusive in our lives. If we are going to hire 150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more law enforcement/firefighters out there.

    Other problems Judge Kithil has with this bill include:

    Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.

    Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for
    all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such
    as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

    Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be
    treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

    Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

    Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the
    patient's age.

    Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital
    expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

    Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning
    consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an
    "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years.

    Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write
    an end-of-life order."

    Finally, he states, it is specifically stated this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick "fix" to make the plan financially sound for the future."

    Again, I'm just posting what was written in the article. I can only hope it's not totally accurate.
    Last edited by mariaf; 03-26-2010 at 09:17 PM.
    mariaf305@yahoo.com
    Mom to David, age 15, braced June 2000 to March 2004
    Vertebral Body Stapling 3/10/04 for 40 degree curve (currently holding around 26 degrees)
    Under care of Dr. Randal Betz since 2004

    Also mom to Nicole (22) and Danny (25)

    Link to VBS Website: www.vertebralstapling.com

    Janet Cerrone, PA to Dr. Betz janetcerrone@spineandscoliosis.com or (609) 912-1500

  14. #29
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    NJ
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    Why do you bother posting it if the claims might not be real???

    Quote Originally Posted by mariaf View Post
    A friend sent me this - while I have no idea if the claims are real (I sure hope not) this has appeared on several websites - and was supposedly written by a former county judge in Texas, David Kithil.

    Again, I'm just posting what was written in the article. I can only hope it's not totally accurate.
    We need to stick to the facts not this mass hysteria that drives me crazy. I work in health care and I am delighted something is being done about this.

    This business about "death panels". I hope you are not talking about Hospice which involves end of life care and is presently covered by Medicare part A. This is where a person can decide comfort care rather than painful, useless yes, expensive, treatments at the end of their life. My mom, who recently passed away, lived longer than expected on such care.
    Original scoliosis surgery 1956 T-4 to L-2 ~100 degree thoracic (triple)curves at age 14. NO hardware-lost correction.
    Anterior/posterior revision T-4 to Sacrum in 2002, age 60, by Dr. Boachie-Adjei @Hospital for Special Surgery, NY = 50% correction

  15. #30
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    Apr 2009
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    1,258
    There is a LOT of fear mongering going on regarding the "facts" of this bill. Mostly perpetrated by the guys who didn't vote for it ;-)

    Whitehouse.gov is a good source for the Democratic side of the coin. Whatever it is all about, we are stuck with it - and the amendments to come. I really want to believe it will be a good thing ... I hope Karen's take is right.

    I have a very close family friend in NJ who is a retired doctor. I asked him what he thought about the bill. He said this (in part):

    It could be a wonderful thing if its support were not based on fiction. First Obama should never have allowed the insurance companies to bully him into allowing them to control it. There are not even any price controls. He honestly believes that he can raise half of its cost from Medicare fraud. Pure fairy tales and trumped up figure. There is probably about 50 billion in fraud and the rest is augmented fiction. So he will turn around and do the popular thing. Tax the rich. Problem is he is running out of them (the rich) and will have to lower his earnings definition of who is rich. This program is not a 1 trillion dollar program, it is a 3 trillion dollar program. So he will cut that rich level until believe it or not, you will find yourself being called one of those "rich." We needed a better insurance program like Medicare, but we didn't need it now as we still are in the worst recession since the depression. He should have waited 2 years, cleared up the budget and then brought it in as a federal program. These votes only guarantee inflation. welcome back to Jimmy Carter days.

    These are off the cuff remarks from someone who retired early due to much dissatisfaction with insurance companies, and their involvement in "doctoring." I respect his opinions as he is heavily involved now in doing things like funding research clinics at major teaching universities. So, what I'm trying to say is that he keeps abreast of things like this.

    I don't really believe the scare tactics we find published by the guys who voted no. But I am worried about some things. Fining people up to 2.5% of their salary if they don't purchase insurance seems like a big red flag to me. My state's Attorney General is leading the way in a major 14 state law suit regarding this - and I wonder who is going to pay for that. As it is, Florida's economic outlook is in the crapper and my job (along with thousands of others) is continuously in jeopardy amid shortfalls and budget cuts.

    The "death panel" thing is a myth I believe. The truth of that matter involves counseling people regarding living wills. Something I'm not sure is a good thing. But that's a whole other discussion.

    I hope you are right Karen. And Sharon - great web link :-)
    Last edited by mamamax; 03-26-2010 at 06:34 PM.

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