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turtlelover
11-05-2009, 02:41 PM
Hey Folks!

I have read through many of your posts since my daughter was diagnosed with scoliosis and they have helped. I want you all to know it has helped.

My daughter went to see Larry Nassar DO @ MSU for a gymnastics injury in the first week of March this year, and after a complete work up he diagnosed scoliosis. She is pre-menarche 11 years old.

Her first X Ray read a COBB angle of 9 degrees. Mild, but noticeable to her, painful, and in need of therapy.

I started to read. This forum up and down, Pub Med, I consulted the folks in Canada.

We tried Scroth (I bought the book) and copied the exercises without professional help (we lacked access and funds), diet - I put her on fatty acid supplements, and vitamins. We eat no fish at our house. I blocked out all the light in her room and bought her orange glasses to read with and play video games with at night.

Her second X ray was the last week in June COBB angle measured 11 degrees.

We returned home to North Carolina after a year of sabbatical in the first week of July and I bought a Cybex torso rotation machine used, in Florida, for $500 and had it shipped U SHIP for $200 and she has worked out on it every day since.

Yesterday we got another X ray. COBB angle 6 degrees. I know it is within measurement error, I know the x rays were on another system (Michigan versus Detroit), but I can look at them and see they are better. a = a

With special thanks to Dingo, Concerned Dad and many others... The time you have taken to document your trials and successes made it possible for us to have our 5 degree turn for the better....

LindaRacine
11-05-2009, 09:33 PM
I'd be very concerned about having my child xray'd so much with such a small curve. Orthopaedic Spine MD's consider anything under 10 degrees a normal spine.

Dingo
11-05-2009, 10:24 PM
Turtlelover


Yesterday we got another X ray. COBB angle 6 degrees. I know it is within measurement error, I know the x rays were on another system (Michigan versus Detroit), but I can look at them and see they are better.

THAT IS AMAZING NEWS!!!

According to the studies Torso rotation (http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8976) works for practically everyone and evidently your kid is no exception. You don't know how good that makes me feel. I am on cloud 9 for you!

My son is 6 so he is still too young to use the machine. Until he grows large enough we are doing torso strength training with a dumbbell as well as general strength training and stretching. His curve was 11 degrees six months ago. I just hope he holds together until he is about 8 and we can start with the machine. :)

Thank you so much for posting your progress. You made my month!

Lorraine 1966
11-06-2009, 12:17 AM
I cannot see how such small curvatures can be diagnosed as scoliosis. I too know of Spinal specialists who consider this a normal spine. My daughter in law is one such case.

Lorraine.

Bigbluefrog
11-06-2009, 05:12 PM
Please share what type of exercises this is? Dingo you said you use a dumbell?

cybrex torso ? Can you include a link with photo...I am curious

Dingo
11-06-2009, 11:22 PM
Bigbluefrog

My son is only 6 so he is too young to use a torso rotation machine. When he gets older we'll buy one but until then we are doing our best.

We do a modified version of this basic exercise.
Ab Exercises - Torso Rotation w/ Medicine Ball (http://www.workoutz.com/exercise/torso_rotation_with_medicine_ball)

We use a 4 pound dumbbell (Scott weighs 40 pounds) instead of a ball. In addition we use a small, low exercise disc instead of the large round stability ball. Depending on your child's level of fitness and coordination there are several basic torso rotation exercises that can be done at home. Just google torso rotation exercise and video.

The key is to keep the hips as motionless as possible. The work needs to be done by the torso.

Bigbluefrog
11-07-2009, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the link!

www.fitstep.com/Advanced/Anatomy/Back.htm

Back muscles that attach to the vertabra and support and lengthen the spine
are called :
Spinal Erectors

The Erector Spinae is a group of muscles that support the spinal column. They include the Longissimus, the Spinalis and Iliocostalis. The muscles of the Erector Spinae attach to the vertebrae, the ribs and the pelvis. The functions of the Erector Spinae group are to extend the spine as well as provide support for it.

Exercises that work the Erector Spinae include hyperextensions, deadlifts and good mornings.

hope404
11-10-2009, 01:32 AM
Taking action on smaller curves is so important....sad I was told to watch my daughter's get bigger....(watch and wait)

ALL problems(including scoliosis) are easier to fix when smaller.

Bigbluefrog
11-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Taking action on smaller curves is so important....sad I was told to watch my daughter's get bigger....(watch and wait)

ALL problems(including scoliosis) are easier to fix when smaller.

Hope why is it that the Rx for smaller curves... is watch and wait when exercise and PT may be helpful.

We have too many different treatment options and the Orthopedic will not support PT, Spinecor, or Schroth method...why?

Because there is NO proof...not that it isn't successful for individuals
NO Scientific evidence =
means NO scientific studies published in the US.

So what we need is for these professionals to do the studies...and it can't be funded by the company making the product or selling the product.

So much bogus and crap!

trcylynn
11-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Can you describe or if you know of any links that show the exercises for the erector muscles? I think I know hyperextensions- I have an idea on deadlifts but aren't sure if its correct, and have no idea what good mornings are...

Thanks!!

Bigbluefrog
11-11-2009, 07:38 PM
I would not recommend good mornings, its difficult to do. We tried it and it felt wrong, maybe you would have better luck. Don't try alone.
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-do-the-good-morning-exercise-with-a-barbell-254716/


We are better off doing hand held weights and superman..
http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-strengthen-the-core-with-superman-exercises-254715/

Scoliosis exercises google and you should get a list of great exercises.:)

skevimc
01-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Hope why is it that the Rx for smaller curves... is watch and wait when exercise and PT may be helpful.

We have too many different treatment options and the Orthopedic will not support PT, Spinecor, or Schroth method...why?

Because there is NO proof...not that it isn't successful for individuals
NO Scientific evidence =
means NO scientific studies published in the US.

So what we need is for these professionals to do the studies...and it can't be funded by the company making the product or selling the product.

So much bogus and crap!

The reality is that there is quite a bit of interest in the research world to do a controlled study and there is more than enough evidence to support doing a controlled study. The hard part is getting funding. To do a controlled multi-center trial on one therapy would take at least $1 million and several years. So you either get a private company to fund it (which people love to discredit) or you get national funding through the NIH or some other group (like NSF). NSF doesn't have these kinds of funds and scoliosis therapy isn't life threatening enough to warrant that kind of money from the NIH.

So... therapists and progressive orthopods are restricted to private funds or side projects which don't have the staff or support to do a thorough study. So you get a lot of retrospective studies or studies without 'proper' controls.

But believe me when I say there are doctors and researchers who want exercise therapy to succeed. And they are frustrated with the current clinical dogma. But it is an up-hill battle.

mamamax
01-11-2010, 07:30 PM
Hey Folks!

I have read through many of your posts since my daughter was diagnosed with scoliosis and they have helped. I want you all to know it has helped.

My daughter went to see Larry Nassar DO @ MSU for a gymnastics injury in the first week of March this year, and after a complete work up he diagnosed scoliosis. She is pre-menarche 11 years old.

Her first X Ray read a COBB angle of 9 degrees. Mild, but noticeable to her, painful, and in need of therapy.

I started to read. This forum up and down, Pub Med, I consulted the folks in Canada.

We tried Scroth (I bought the book) and copied the exercises without professional help (we lacked access and funds), diet - I put her on fatty acid supplements, and vitamins. We eat no fish at our house. I blocked out all the light in her room and bought her orange glasses to read with and play video games with at night.

Her second X ray was the last week in June COBB angle measured 11 degrees.

We returned home to North Carolina after a year of sabbatical in the first week of July and I bought a Cybex torso rotation machine used, in Florida, for $500 and had it shipped U SHIP for $200 and she has worked out on it every day since.

Yesterday we got another X ray. COBB angle 6 degrees. I know it is within measurement error, I know the x rays were on another system (Michigan versus Detroit), but I can look at them and see they are better. a = a

With special thanks to Dingo, Concerned Dad and many others... The time you have taken to document your trials and successes made it possible for us to have our 5 degree turn for the better....

Congratulations!!!! Don't really feel the need to question why .. just that this is working for your daughter is good enough for me! I do know the MedX torso rotation method reports improved chest wall function - and based on the 15 year study done by Martha Hawes (who has focused on just that, chest wall improvement) ... there may be a connection.

mamamax
01-11-2010, 07:36 PM
The reality is that there is quite a bit of interest in the research world to do a controlled study and there is more than enough evidence to support doing a controlled study. The hard part is getting funding. To do a controlled multi-center trial on one therapy would take at least $1 million and several years. So you either get a private company to fund it (which people love to discredit) or you get national funding through the NIH or some other group (like NSF). NSF doesn't have these kinds of funds and scoliosis therapy isn't life threatening enough to warrant that kind of money from the NIH.

So... therapists and progressive orthopods are restricted to private funds or side projects which don't have the staff or support to do a thorough study. So you get a lot of retrospective studies or studies without 'proper' controls.

But believe me when I say there are doctors and researchers who want exercise therapy to succeed. And they are frustrated with the current clinical dogma. But it is an up-hill battle.

Exactly! Believe you hit the nail on the head on this one. In the mean time it is largely up to patients to help educate the orthopedic community. For example, I have an orthopedic specialist who was willing to work with me in bracing with Spinecor as an adult - due to my improved quality of life, he now recommends the brace to others like myself (old ladies declining surgery).