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rich1752
10-31-2009, 02:10 AM
I just read a case study from the CLEAR INSTITUTE and read the letter that a patient sent in. This is what the letter said,

" I researched the surgery and found out that 40% of the people who have the rod surgery are considered disabled within 5 years. And then I found out that the surgery doesn't stop the curvature and that it gradually returns to what it was pre-surgery and that the rods bend or break at some point almost 100% of the time. The studies showed that the higher the curvature the more likely that pain would persist long term after surgery."

IS ANY OF THIS TRUE AND IF NOT, WHY WOULD THEY PUT IT ON THEIR WEBSITE?

I am scheduled for surgery on Dec. 9th, but still doing tons of research on my surgery and looking for any alternative.

rich

Shari
10-31-2009, 04:30 AM
Hi Rich,

I honestly have never heard of the "Clear Institute". How did you find this article?

I can't wait until you reply, because I can't wait to read this and who wrote it!!! I'm going to try to find this Instiitute. For any professional Institution to claim that ANYTHING happens 100% of the time, is unrealistic to me.

Of course, I'm no Doc., but what you have said, has upset me.
I find this so hard to believe!!!

Confused,
Shari

jrnyc
10-31-2009, 07:00 AM
have seen "Clear Institute" mentioned many times on forum in "non surgical" section...thought there was no factual proof of their tx resulting in any improvement to scoli, but believe they knock fusion surgery repeatedly...

jess

debbei
10-31-2009, 08:03 AM
I just read a case study from the CLEAR INSTITUTE and read the letter that a patient sent in. This is what the letter said,

" I researched the surgery and found out that 40% of the people who have the rod surgery are considered disabled within 5 years. And then I found out that the surgery doesn't stop the curvature and that it gradually returns to what it was pre-surgery and that the rods bend or break at some point almost 100% of the time. The studies showed that the higher the curvature the more likely that pain would persist long term after surgery."

IS ANY OF THIS TRUE AND IF NOT, WHY WOULD THEY PUT IT ON THEIR WEBSITE?

I am scheduled for surgery on Dec. 9th, but still doing tons of research on my surgery and looking for any alternative.

rich


They put this on their website because they are a bunch of quacks try to scare patients away from surgery and into their clinics. If you read this forum you will find many people who went 20 or 30 years after surgery, even with the old Harrington rods, and do just fine. I know rods can break sometimes (if the fusion wasn't originally complete), but 100% of the time is an outright lie.

Make your own decision, but don't let their lies freak you out.

Pooka1
10-31-2009, 08:52 AM
Please send me the site where you read that. I will send it to Quackwatch for listing on their site.

Clear is quacky for sure.

Pooka1
10-31-2009, 08:54 AM
Also, please ask your surgeon about this and say "Clear" said this. Check his reaction.

Also ask Clear for the data to show this.

It is a LIE. They are not simply mistaken.

Vali
10-31-2009, 09:36 AM
O.K. so I read your thread, did a search on the net. Found a couple of post-op research papers on hardware - nothing really major there. Then read a couple of sites that funnily enough, the content was that letter from Clears brag board - so to speak. Bottom denominator - they are all Chiro's. Not that all Chiros are bad, but some are real cowboys, especially when they tell you, "you don't need surgery to correct your curve, because you are under stress, I can tell because you have frown lines on your forehead". No .... Sherlock, I'm in a lot of pain and trying to work out where you're coming from.
My advice, if you do any research, look at research papers written by reputable Orthos. They give insight both ways, good and bad.

mixasu
10-31-2009, 01:51 PM
Is there any truth to the part that says the curvature will return to it's original degrees? I don't see why we would be put under such a traumatic surgery if it was not permanent...

Pooka1
10-31-2009, 01:58 PM
Is there any truth to the part that says the curvature will return to it's original degrees? I don't see why we would be put under such a traumatic surgery if it was not permanent...

It is impossible to return to the previous curvature if a solid fusion is achieved and its not later broken in a traumatic injury or something.

It's like asking will a broken arm bone return to being broken (absent trauma).

tonibunny
10-31-2009, 02:16 PM
CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

“On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.

Pooka1
10-31-2009, 02:21 PM
CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

“On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.

I hope nobody is wondering why chiros have a bad reputation.

The relatively few evidence-based chiros are probably mortified at the sheer volume of misrepresentations put out there by the quacky ones.

hdugger
10-31-2009, 05:44 PM
Here's the abstract and link:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14505099

"Aim: The expert evidence of operated patients with idiopathic scoliosis is determined by functional and pulmonary restriction. The degree of deformity and the extent of fusion is crucial for grading disability. In a retrospective study on the quality of life (SF-36) and low back pain (Roland-Morris Score) of 82 patients (22-40 years) with idiopathic scoliosis treated with Harrington instrumentation the grading was registered. Method: An average of 16.7 years after the surgery, these data were correlated with the type and size of curve and to the extension of fusion. Results: Compared to the age-matched healthy population, there was no significant difference in the physical SF-36 scale (P = 0.98). Surgically treated patients showed significantly lower scores than at baseline in the psychological SF-36 scale (P=0.005). Sixty-five (79.3%) of the eighty-two patients reported no or occasional back pain in the Roland Index. Five patients (6.1 %) complained of chronic back pain. 33 patients (40%) were legally defined in their rate of disability as severely handicapped patients. The grading disability was associated with the physical SF-36 scale (P< 0.001) and the low back pain (P = 0.02). A significant correlation between the grading disability and the extent of fusion (P = 0.53) or the size of curve (p=0.4) could not be proven. Conclusion: Despite good long-term outcomes, 40% of operated treated patients with idiopathic scoliosis were legally defined as severely handicapped persons. The additional measurements of quality of life and low-back pain can improve legal assessment in orthopaedics"

82 patients. 65 of them are totally fine in terms of pain. 5 are in pain. Not sure what the status of the remaining 12 is.

Here is the test they used: http://www.sf-36.org/tools/sf36.shtml

And here is their summary: "Despite good long-term outcomes, 40% of operated treated patients with idiopathic scoliosis were legally defined as severely handicapped persons." which completely puzzles me. What are the "good long-term outcomes" which somehow don't relate to the legal disability.

Is their point that they were legally considered disabled even though, by all measures, they weren't? According to the study, they don't differ from a "normal" population on the physical measure of the scale, although they do differ psychologically.

Pooka1
10-31-2009, 05:59 PM
From the abstract...

"Compared to the age-matched healthy population,[...]"

I'd like to see these results, which don't sound all that bad by the way, compared to scoliotics who did NOT get fused. Let's just see the disability scores for that crowd, shall we? Let's see how many can even hold a pen in order to answer a questionnaire.

If folks didn't realize there are a lot of published papers out there that are very weak, hopefully papers like this remove all doubt.

hdugger
10-31-2009, 06:03 PM
Yes, exactly. If they compare well to a healthy population after a long fusion and 20 years with harrington rods, that's pretty darn good!


From the abstract...

"Compared to the age-matched healthy population,[...]"

I'd like to see these results, which don't sound all that bad by the way, compared to scoliotics who did NOT get fused. Let's just see the disability scores for that crowd, shall we? Let's see how many can even hold a pen in order to answer a questionnaire.

LindaRacine
11-01-2009, 01:08 AM
CLEAR Institute's claim that 40% of people are handicapped after surgery refers to a study concerning the Harrington Rod, which is now obsolete and has not been in regular use for scoliosis surgeries in the US or Europe for over 20 years. Since the study was written in 2002, those referred to would have had their surgeries in 1986 or earlier.

“On average, 16 years after surgery, 40% of surgery patient are permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives” (Long-term results of quality of life in patients with idiopathic scoliosis after Harrington instrumentation and their relevance for expert evidence. Gotze C, Slomka A, Gotze HG, Potsl W, Liljenqvist U, Stienbeck J. Z Orthop Ihre Grensgeb 2002 Sep-Oct, 140


I haven't read this study but I would like to know what the definition of "handicapped" is.
It's important to understand that 1) this is a single center study, so the results are only as good as the surgeons at that center, and 2) if only 6% of the patients have regular pain, they're actually doing better than the general public. It's possible that the disability has something to do with the cohort. Perhaps they were all disabled before their surgery.

--Linda

rich1752
11-01-2009, 01:49 AM
I have learned not to believe everything I read on the internet, because that is how World War II got started. The sentences I posted on my initial thread were from a letter somebody had sent in to the "Clear Institute". The letter was in their "case study" folder. I can't believe that they would post such a letter with all the skewed information.

http://www.clear-institute.org/BenefitsforDoctors/CaseStudies/tabid/863/Default.aspx


Rich.

I was kidding about WWII!

Jimbo
11-01-2009, 04:56 AM
What evil deceiving bastards :mad:

Pooka1
11-01-2009, 09:34 AM
I can't believe that they would post such a letter with all the skewed information.

I can. They have tapped into a desperate crowd of folks who are too scared to get the facts and some who don't want the facts but prefer wishful thinking.

Chiros running a business are not able to help people with scoliosis. They have no relevant training. Hence we have Stitzel, a Clear guy, who buys a hand-held power tool from Home Depot (or wherever) and claims the two settings produce frequencies that just happen to match something the body needs to cure scoliosis.

You can't make this stuff up. Truth is stranger than fiction.

Karen Ocker
11-01-2009, 12:57 PM
After all these years. I want to see the Clear patients' before and after and long term results.

Please, all you successes, come forward!!!! Educate us and rescue us from our ignorance.:rolleyes:

sillycoffeegirl
11-01-2009, 03:51 PM
:D
It seems Clear is a religion based on faith and wishful thinking, not a treatment based on science and evidence.


I have liked going to chiros in the past, but when i informed my chiropractor that i was thinking about having surgery and why he pretty much interrupted me and didnt let me finish the important reasons why for example that its harder to breathe and i have been having pains around my heart and of course pain near my biggest curve. I think major organs is a big reason to have the surgery done because im only 25 just think when im 30 how much worse it could be if i dont do anything now. But my point was, lol, that he interrupted me telling me how invasive it is and how he could help me out a lot by going to see him 2 or 3 times a week. Like i have the money for the! seriously. Sometimes i think all they want is money. Yes they do make you more flexible and feel better for a short time, but im talking about long term. And he was acting like i havent looked into surgery and given it much thought. I have been researching it for about 6 months! I have done my homework. They make me so mad sometimes. geez Im so glad to be able to chat with all of you on this forum. :D

Bethany

Pooka1
11-01-2009, 03:57 PM
:D


I have liked going to chiros in the past, but when i informed my chiropractor that i was thinking about having surgery and why he pretty much interrupted me and didnt let me finish the important reasons why for example that its harder to breathe and i have been having pains around my heart and of course pain near my biggest curve. I think major organs is a big reason to have the surgery done because im only 25 just think when im 30 how much worse it could be if i dont do anything now. But my point was, lol, that he interrupted me telling me how invasive it is and how he could help me out a lot by going to see him 2 or 3 times a week. Like i have the money for the! seriously. Sometimes i think all they want is money. Yes they do make you more flexible and feel better for a short time, but im talking about long term. And he was acting like i havent looked into surgery and given it much thought. I have been researching it for about 6 months! I have done my homework. They make me so mad sometimes. geez Im so glad to be able to chat with all of you on this forum. :D


Hey sillycoffeegirl (I like that screen name!)

The unscrupulous chiros seem to far outnumber the few honest, evidence-based ones it seems.

There is so much good information on Chirobase (a division of Quackwatch). If folks would look at that material we wouldn't have endless threads about Clear and other nonsense "treatments" that never pony up a lick of evidence that they work. They just kick back and post outdated material on surgery and hope people are too dumb to see that no matter what is going on with surgery, that doesn't make Clear any better by default.

There is a reason chiros are not allowed to use the "Dr." title in the UK. I wish that were true in the US also.

Rock on. :)

sharon

dolores a
11-01-2009, 05:26 PM
Before I had my surgery, I tried the chiropractor route, I went to someone who I went to school with. He did help me with some neck issues, but when it came to getting relief for my sciatica, didn't help much. Like Sillygirl, when I told him that I was considering fusion for my scoliosis, he told me I was crazy to do this, and that I should come to him three or four times a week. He even went so far as to tell me that he has a nephew that had this surgery done and wound up in a wheel chair. Something told me this was an out and out lie! Never went back to him or spoke to him again.

debbei
11-01-2009, 06:52 PM
Before I had my surgery, I tried the chiropractor route, I went to someone who I went to school with. He did help me with some neck issues, but when it came to getting relief for my sciatica, didn't help much. Like Sillygirl, when I told him that I was considering fusion for my scoliosis, he told me I was crazy to do this, and that I should come to him three or four times a week. He even went so far as to tell me that he has a nephew that had this surgery done and wound up in a wheel chair. Something told me this was an out and out lie! Never went back to him or spoke to him again.

Dolores,

I don't blame you for cutting him out! What a horrible thing to say to a patient. :(

rachael
11-02-2009, 07:43 PM
It looks like the guys on this site saw that study too.

http://www.fixscoliosis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87

I don't even want to comment on this...I can hardly believe people would even suggest this!

Pooka1
11-02-2009, 07:47 PM
It looks like the guys on this site saw that study too.

http://www.fixscoliosis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87

I don't even want to comment on this...I can hardly believe people would even suggest this!

That poster is Stitzel who can be seen in the video posted on the "heavily-modified-hand-held-jigsaw-cure-for-scoliosis" thread.

LindaRacine
11-02-2009, 09:37 PM
It looks like the guys on this site saw that study too.

http://www.fixscoliosis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87

I don't even want to comment on this...I can hardly believe people would even suggest this!

His comment "This study is from 2002...... I hope that is current enough for some of you "nay sayers".....Please don't shoot the messenger.....I am only trying to bring balance to the conversation and reporting the facts according to the peer reviewed research." is such a joke for several reasons.

First, there are no "nay sayers" because he bans anyone who dares challenge what he says. Secondly, if he wanted a "balance" one would think he's go for one of the hundreds of more current studies.

--Linda

tonibunny
11-02-2009, 11:47 PM
I just found the following page which has some astounding claims on it:

http://www.scoliosis-treatments.com/FAQ/tabid/61/Default.aspx


"Q19. Why will my insurance company pay for the Harrington rod surgery, but not alternative methods of scoliosis treatment such as chiropractic?

Answer: The answer is deceptively simple, and unfortunately based upon the laws of economics, rather than what is best for the patient. The insurance companies are undoubtedly aware of the research stating that 40% of operated patients are legally defined as permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives. In such an event, the insurance company’s financial responsibility for that patient is terminated, and federal Social Security & Disability programs are responsible for covering all medical expenses."


I'm speechless at this, really. Your insurance company wants you to have surgery so you become handicapped? Right :mad:

Pooka1
11-03-2009, 06:40 AM
I just found the following page which has some astounding claims on it:

http://www.scoliosis-treatments.com/FAQ/tabid/61/Default.aspx


"Q19. Why will my insurance company pay for the Harrington rod surgery, but not alternative methods of scoliosis treatment such as chiropractic?

Answer: The answer is deceptively simple, and unfortunately based upon the laws of economics, rather than what is best for the patient. The insurance companies are undoubtedly aware of the research stating that 40% of operated patients are legally defined as permanently handicapped for the rest of their lives. In such an event, the insurance company’s financial responsibility for that patient is terminated, and federal Social Security & Disability programs are responsible for covering all medical expenses."


I'm speechless at this, really. Your insurance company wants you to have surgery so you become handicapped? Right :mad:

The "reasoning" on display on that site is typical of that seen on other chiro sites.

Anyone who reads Fixscoliosis's site for any length of time will form an opinion about the reasoning capacity of the resident chiros there. Kalla is actually quite good for the most part but the same cannot be said for his buddy. For example, the questions and concerns voiced on this forum about that abstract clearly never occurred to Stitzel when he read it. He doesn't have the requisite knowledge to be posting and commenting on these matters.

If they didn't have Goldfinch posting there, the blog would be solid, non-stop misinformation and ignorance on the wing.

Jimbo
11-04-2009, 06:58 AM
Q2. Why do you recommend avoiding the Harrington rod implantation surgery for scoliosis?

Answer: Surgery will not correct the posterior rib arch; additionally, it has been shown that the function of the heart and lungs is unchanged after the procedure.

Copyright 2009 scoliosis-treatments.com

What beasts !

tonibunny
11-09-2009, 01:22 PM
That's mad! YES surgery will correct the posterior rib arch. That's what happens when you derotate a spine; the ribs that are attached to the vertebrae derotate too. If further correction is needed, the surgeon can also perform a costoplasty procedure.

Years ago the fusion surgery didn't do much for the rib hump because the Harrington Rod didn't derotate the vertebrae. They're using outdated information as evidence again :mad:

And....surgery is typically done to protect the heart and lung function! It should never reach the stages where such function has drastically decreased.

titaniumed
11-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Jimbo

Since were on the subject of "beasts" and its acceptable to post beasts**t

I'm cooking roast beast tonight! Does that make me "the beast of burden"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tRdBsnX4N4

Remember "the beasty boys" We were force fed this years ago. They caused my scoliosis with that single note bass line. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8UJ-5idmDQ

After, I'm playing "the beastmaster" Its gotta be good,it has Rip Torn in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beastmaster_(film)

What I don't understand is, if 3% of the population has scoli, wouldn't you think that they would at least, find NSF online, and try to learn about their scoli instead of absorbing all this beasts**t ?

Where is everybody?
Listening to the beasty boys?
Ed

spinalfusion09
12-01-2009, 09:35 PM
wow I mean I'm not a doctor but wouldn't it take a great deal of power to break titanium? I have titanium rods and I'm pretty sure thats what they make parts of spaceships out of :]

joyfull
12-01-2009, 10:02 PM
As I've posted before, I attended Clear Institute in 2007 for two weeks of intense treatment. I was not ultimately pleased with the results, although I know that there are many who say that they have been helped.

I can hear that some people get very indignant about this. Suffice it to say that after reading on this website about the many people who live uneventful lives after fusion, I take such studies with a grain of salt. I feel certain that there are scores of people out there who are going about their lives after fusion without focusing on their scoliosis enough to even go on a forum!

Would the compassionate surgeons whom people have encountered be so callous as to continue performing these surgeries if the "disabled" rate was so high? Would we not be informed of this risk? A surgeon whom I saw yesterday warned me of the risk of paralysis, even though it is extremely low.

I have avoided surgery for many years. I am 57 and thank G-d have had no pain and have had a normal life. But there is a limit to how much chiropractic can do to move bone and correct deformities. My thoracic scoliosis is now 90 degrees and I found out yesterday that my lung function is reduced 50%, although I am not aware of it. I am planning to have surgery in June.

I believe that the people at Clear truly believe what they are saying and that they have seen many people with problems from surgery, but they are not seeing the many who are thriving.

Joy

txmarinemom
12-01-2009, 10:19 PM
As I've posted before, I attended Clear Institute in 2007 for two weeks of intense treatment. I was not ultimately pleased with the results, although I know that there are many who say that they have been helped.

I can hear that some people get very indignant about this. Suffice it to say that after reading on this website about the many people who live uneventful lives after fusion, I take such studies with a grain of salt. I feel certain that there are scores of people out there who are going about their lives after fusion without focusing on their scoliosis enough to even go on a forum!

Joyfull,

I understand you're giving them the benefit of the doubt ... really.

You bring up a valid point about those of us who stick around here: We do have lives, but the main reasons we stick around here are A) for support, and B) to protect others from buying a treatment that hasn't produced one single case of concrete proof their method actually works.

Even if they believe in what they're doing, wouldn't you think continuing it (and continuing to believe in it) - minus any tangible evidence of success - (at the very least) makes them inept?

All CLEAR can do (ever does) is consistently knock down *valid* treatment using outdated information, misinformation and flat out lies. They've prevented quite a few people who've come here from receiving effective treatment in a timely manner.

NO proof ... and yet they still keep taking patients, as long as the patients will pay.

Sad.

joyfull
12-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Before I went to Clear, I spoke to several people who said that Dr. Woggon worked wonders for them. However, they were young and the curves were small. I spoke to an older woman who felt that Clear had corrected her posture and eliminated her pain. I met her in Minnesota and it didn't seem as if her bones had moved. Plus, the exercise regimen was almost impossible to do if you work. I also had to buy a scoliosis chair with straps and a vibrating base, which I was supposed to sit in for half an hour, twice a day. I understand that the exercises now have been streamlined.

By the way, the vibrating chair is supposed to strengthen your bones, not correct your curve. It is based on a study done at NYU with rats, where exposure to a certain vibrational frequency encouraged bone growth. I actually read about this in the New York Times, and I'm sorry I can't quote the study. So there may be some method to his madness! All the best, Joy

Ballet Mom
12-02-2009, 11:48 AM
By the way, the vibrating chair is supposed to strengthen your bones, not correct your curve. It is based on a study done at NYU with rats, where exposure to a certain vibrational frequency encouraged bone growth. I actually read about this in the New York Times, and I'm sorry I can't quote the study. So there may be some method to his madness! All the best, Joy

Ahhh, interesting. Now if only we could get an independent reading of Clear's radiographs to see if they really are making any difference. I should think they would willingly want to put their results up for verification by an independent orthopedist for everyone to see the amazing breakthroughs they are making in scientific research. They could win a Nobel!

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast02nov_1.htm


"The vibrations are very slight," notes Stefan Judex, assistant professor of biomedical engineering at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, who worked on the research. The plate vibrates at 90 Hz (1 Hz = 1 cycle per second), with each brief oscillation imparting an acceleration equivalent to one-third of Earth's gravity. "If you touch the plate with your finger, you can feel a very slight vibration," he added. "If you watch the plate, you cannot see any vibration at all."
/
/
Clinton Rubin, a professor of biomedical engineering at SUNY Stony Brook and principal investigator for the study, cautions that more experiments are required before scientists can be sure that vibration therapy is effective for people. "Animals are different than humans," he notes. And even among humans there are important variables, like nutrition and genetic make-up. What works for post-menopausal women (who often suffer from osteoporosis) might not work for astronauts in space.

Pooka1
12-02-2009, 12:41 PM
Even assuming external vibrations make bone stronger, what is the evidence that making bones stronger helps AT ALL with scoliosis? Have they shown this decreases the curvature rate? Has Stitzel determined the vibration frequency of his modified handheld jig saw? Is he using that in any type of experiment where he can determine if it is having any effect whatsoever? Has he told the patients they are paying for a transparently experimental (and partially nutty) "treatment" with no evidence of efficacy?

So many questions!

jrnyc
12-02-2009, 05:07 PM
So what does that mean..i would still have severe curves, but they would be...stronger...???? how exactly would that help anyone with scoliosis??? :rolleyes:

very confusing...& mind boggling...

jess

Pooka1
12-02-2009, 05:09 PM
So what does that mean..i would still have severe curves, but they would be...stronger...???? how exactly would that help anyone with scoliosis??? :rolleyes:

very confusing...& mind boggling...

jess

Great questions. I wish someone would post them over on Fixscoliosis's forum.

hope404
12-02-2009, 07:40 PM
Seems to be alot of confusion about CLEAR's techniques.....
The simplified version I've gotten is they first try to get the curve flexible...(the jigsaw helps in this process, among other things)

Once flexible, they are able to get the curve extremely low in the traction chair.....

BUT....once out of the chair(and other equipment...) the curve will start going up again....

So...how to keep the reduction?????...this is where they are starting to come up with some new neuromuscular rehabilitation ideas that are very promising.

This is my understanding of the process at this time...

I will say, they encourage early intervention as the larger, older curves are way more difficult to reduce. I would not use CLEAR if I had an older, large curve...

Pooka1
12-02-2009, 08:22 PM
Seems to be alot of confusion about CLEAR's techniques.....
The simplified version I've gotten is they first try to get the curve flexible...(the jigsaw helps in this process, among other things)

What proof does Stitzel have that the jigsaw helps make the curve flexible? I mean I have tried and tried and can't imagine that guy designing an experiment that would show this. How is he measuring flexibility? Do you feel you are being skeptical enough? Are you being skeptical at all?


Once flexible, they are able to get the curve extremely low in the traction chair.....

How do they know? Do they shoot a radiograph every session?


BUT....once out of the chair(and other equipment...) the curve will start going up again....

So...how to keep the reduction?????...this is where they are starting to come up with some new neuromuscular rehabilitation ideas that are very promising.

Promising? Why aren't they paying you to fund their experimentation on your daughter? How is it promising? Where is ANY preliminary data? Is it all in Stitzel's imagination?


This is my understanding of the process at this time...

I will say, they encourage early intervention as the larger, older curves are way more difficult to reduce. I would not use CLEAR if I had an older, large curve...

Very convenient to try to work with more small curves, the very ones that don't tend to progress. Ice cream therapy works equally well on the small curves, by the way.

jrnyc
12-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Well, it is about time that someone mentioned the cure all of the 20th & 21st centuries..i refer, of course, to ice cream therapy, the known cure for PMS, depression, & every other ill that plagues man & woman kind....since sugar works on the same part of the brain as alcohol & antidepressants, i dont know why we cant just cure scoli with ice cream...

there, case closed..& i dont think this is so far away from some of the other treatments mentioned in non surgical section of forum!!

here's to sugar for all!

jess

Pooka1
12-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Well, it is about time that someone mentioned the cure all of the 20th & 21st centuries..i refer, of course, to ice cream therapy, the known cure for PMS, depression, & every other ill that plagues man & woman kind....since sugar works on the same part of the brain as alcohol & antidepressants, i dont know why we cant just cure scoli with ice cream...

there, case closed..& i dont think this is so far away from some of the other treatments mentioned in non surgical section of forum!!

here's to sugar for all!

jess

:D:D:D:D

Post of the month nomination!

jrnyc
12-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Thank you, thank you..all accolades gratefully accepted...though the sugar cure has been known to PMS victims every month, month after month, starting around age 13 or so!! ;)

regards...
jess