New method to correct scoliosis!! Fake or real?

[JMayor]

Hello everyone,

In my search for a cure to my pain and hopefully correction of my scoliosis, I have come across this chiropractor that claims that in 1 to 2 weeks of doing intensive work on me using his method, that he can fix my curves from 5 to 20 degrees. This is his website: http://www.scoliosiscorrectioncenter.com/index.html

He makes very bold claims about how bad the surgery is and how doctors don't tell the truth about the future risks, but I will leave it up to you to read and look through his website for more info on that.

Has anyone heard about this Dr or his methods? If this is possible, if it is, I am sure many on this section of the forum will be very happy to learn about this since it would prevent surgery.

What do you think? Can my 26 degree thoracic curve be reduced to 6 degrees? Let me know what you think before I spend another small fortune on my quest to pain relief.

Thanks :)

[betty14]

Hi there:
I'm pretty skeptical of any health care provider that makes "bold claims", as you say. If you do a search here, you'll find some threads about Clear, with several members reporting on their outcome.
Likely no harm to your body in trying it, except to your pocketbook if it doesn't help .... if, by any chance, the practitioner wants payment for a full course of therapy upfront, that is a red flag. You should be billed per visit completed, IMO. I've heard of a few examples where people wanted their money back, having decided to discontinue treatment, and were told it was impossible, as they had signed a contract.
Good luck!
B.

[LindaRacine]

Hello everyone,

In my search for a cure to my pain and hopefully correction of my scoliosis, I have come across this chiropractor that claims that in 1 to 2 weeks of doing intensive work on me using his method, that he can fix my curves from 5 to 20 degrees. This is his website: http://www.scoliosiscorrectioncenter.com/index.html

He makes very bold claims about how bad the surgery is and how doctors don't tell the truth about the future risks, but I will leave it up to you to read and look through his website for more info on that.

Has anyone heard about this Dr or his methods? If this is possible, if it is, I am sure many on this section of the forum will be very happy to learn about this since it would prevent surgery.

What do you think? Can my 26 degree thoracic curve be reduced to 6 degrees? Let me know what you think before I spend another small fortune on my quest to pain relief.

Thanks :)
I would question whether the correction can be maintained over time. If it can only be maintained by regular treatments, you'll want to know that in advance.

[hope404]

Yes,
I am familiar with Dr. Hersch at the Scoliosis Correction Center in Connecticut..went there for a week last year.


A very nice man whos own daughter has severe scoliosis. His facility is based on CLEAR ideas though he has kind of gone off on his own. You absolutely will get pain relief with CLEAR treatment though I have found other CLEAR doctors who run a tighter ship and do a better job then Hersch.

CLEAR has some great ideas and specialized equipment that provide many with pain relief...BUT like Linda said you have to continue a program at home
to solidify any gains you may acquire during treatment.

I would say if you are at the end of your rope absolutely try their program
many have been helped by it. And if you don't mind making a commitment to your back health this will be perfect for you.

[JMayor]

Yes,
I would say if you are at the end of your rope absolutely try their program
many have been helped by it. And if you don't mind making a commitment to your back health this will be perfect for you.

Hi!

Well.. did it help you to straighten your spine at all? Or is it only for pain relief?
I was reading about the CLEAR experiences here and they are not good.. Can I expect correction of the scoliosis with this method?

[jrnyc]

i spoke to that doctor on phone, as i live in CT..was not impressed, he was surprised at my degree of curve, & i decided not to bother...felt it would be a waste of my time...he spoke of a traction chair & other things i felt would be of no help to me...

jess

[Qikdraw]

jMayor,

Well it looks like you have tried a number of things, judging by your sig lines. My question to you is have you kept up with them, or did you just stop them as not working? And if so, how quickly did you stop trying them?

Things like Schroth, Clear, etc, you have to do a daily workout, and if you don't do that its just not going to work.

The guy you linked, after reading his scoliosis surgery scare tactics page, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. While he says he wants people to do research and be informed, I don't think he does at all. He's using a tried and true method of scaring people into doing what he wants you to do, which is come to his clinic.

If you are going to try it, I would try it with someone else. I am not a fan of chiropracters in general, too many I have seen will just outright lie to you to get you into their hands, however there are some very good ones that are actually concerned about your health. You just have to find the one you find comfortable. Have you tried asking your regular doctor about that?

The other thing is what do you sleep on? Do you use pillows? Do you have a memory foam topper? How are your sleeps at night? Have you tried massages?

Sorry for the 20 questions but I went through 25 years of poor sleeps until I got a memory foam mattress and that helped a lot. So does massages. And if something cheap can help before you spend thousands of dollars its better to go that way. :D

Brad

[JMayor]

hey quikdraw!

I have a good night sleep. I wake up with no pain. The pain immediately starts getting worse through out the day as I stand up or sit down. The only thing that manages my pain is hydrocodone. I am on pain management. It helps a lot and unfortunately I am dependent on by now.

I tried the schroth and gave it about a month of doing the exercises. It never helped a bit to decrease pain. So I knew it was not going to help me. Even for those that say that it helps them. Can anyone here state that there has been a correction of their curve by using the schroth method? I would like to talk to that person. I can manage my pain with deep tissue massage, heat therapy and pain meds, oh and of course by working out and doing back exercise.

I am getting the results of a FULL back MRI on Monday. I am seeing an orthopedist at Vanderbilt, but I already know what he is going to say. He will say my scoliosis is not bad enough for surgery and will send me to a PT. Unless he finds something on the MRI, which I doubt. I am pretty healthy otherwise.

what I want, or dream about, is correcting my scoliosis, or at least have a balanced structure that wont create pain. I am looking into the clear method more now, but it seem like there is not enough evidence either to support any corrections. If you can point out who has had a correction doing this method, I want to know please!! :)

Anyone knows if getting into bodybuilding would correct the scoliosis or lower the pain by having tremendous amounts of muscle?

[swimmergirlsmom]

I tried the schroth and gave it about a month of doing the exercises. It never helped a bit to decrease pain. So I knew it was not going to help me. Even for those that say that it helps them. Can anyone here state that there has been a correction of their curve by using the schroth method? I would like to talk to that person.

Hi JMayor
My 16 year old daughter was first diagnosed with Scoliosis in Dec 2007, with a 48 degree thoracic curve. Our orthos said to "wait and see" for a year, to see if she would then need surgery, so we took that opportunity to actively pursue conservative treatment. She has been doing daily Schroth exercises for 17 months. After 8 months of doing daily schroth exercises, for 30-45 minutes each day, we had an xray done and her thoracic curve was measured as 32 degrees (Sept 2008). We had another xray done in March 2009 and the thoracic curve was measured as 34 degrees. For these xrays, my daughter was not standing in a special schroth "pose", but just standing normally as instructed by the xray technician, because we wanted to see what her relaxed curves were.

Obviously we do not know what the long term results will be - I will take her for another xray this winter. But I wanted to respond to your question asking if anyone has seen a correction by doing Schroth. It appears my daughter has had some correction.

My daughter is an athlete and doesn't mind the daily commitment to these exercises. The Schroth exercises are not physically demanding but do require a lot of concentration (small movements of small muscles and breathing/lung control). Right now, she is commited to doing these exercises for life. Only time will tell if this approach can maintain her partial curve correction or not.

If you would like to discuss in more detail, please send me a PM with contact information and I'd be glad to email or talk with you. I usually only log onto NSF about once a month because I don't sit at the computer much when I'm home, but I will do my best to check back in a few days.

[LindaRacine]

hey quikdraw!

I have a good night sleep. I wake up with no pain. The pain immediately starts getting worse through out the day as I stand up or sit down. The only thing that manages my pain is hydrocodone. I am on pain management. It helps a lot and unfortunately I am dependent on by now.

I tried the schroth and gave it about a month of doing the exercises. It never helped a bit to decrease pain. So I knew it was not going to help me. Even for those that say that it helps them. Can anyone here state that there has been a correction of their curve by using the schroth method? I would like to talk to that person. I can manage my pain with deep tissue massage, heat therapy and pain meds, oh and of course by working out and doing back exercise.

I am getting the results of a FULL back MRI on Monday. I am seeing an orthopedist at Vanderbilt, but I already know what he is going to say. He will say my scoliosis is not bad enough for surgery and will send me to a PT. Unless he finds something on the MRI, which I doubt. I am pretty healthy otherwise.

what I want, or dream about, is correcting my scoliosis, or at least have a balanced structure that wont create pain. I am looking into the clear method more now, but it seem like there is not enough evidence either to support any corrections. If you can point out who has had a correction doing this method, I want to know please!! :)

Anyone knows if getting into bodybuilding would correct the scoliosis or lower the pain by having tremendous amounts of muscle?
Hi...

I suspect they'll find something, as it's doubtful that the curve itself is causing pain. Can you tell if your pain is muscular or neurologic? Do you have any pain in your arms or legs?

Anyway, I hope they find something. It would be awful to think that you'd have to go through life in pain without knowing the source.

Regards,
Linda

[jrnyc]

dear JMayor
i would try a pain management doctor for tx such as epidurals or facet block injections or nerve ablation or whatever the pain doctor might recommend...i was sorely UNimpressed with CT chiropractor or anyone else who recommends a traction chair for my degree of curve...i am still considering surgery but trying to get out from under the pain long enuf to think straight!

best of luck to you
jess

[betty14]

Hi JMayor:

I just wanted to ask you a few questions, kind of along the lines of what some previous responders commented on, if you don't mind?

1) where is your pain located exactly?
2) when you say you have a forward head posture, is it mild, moderate, extreme? (this is known to be corrolated to pain in a certain area)
3) considering that the pain may or may not be all scoliosis related, do you have any history of trauma or strain - lifting injuries, fractured tailbone, falls on buttock or hip, history of one-sided sport like canoeing etc...
4) you say you have no pain in the a.m., after sleeping.
How long does it take before the pain begins?
And if you lay down, how long does it take for the pain to go away?


Thanks! B.

[JMayor]

Hello All and thank you for your replies...

I just came back from the doctor and got my MRI results.

IMPRESSION FROM MRI REPORT:

1) Disc osteophyte (bone spur) complex at C5-6, asymmetric to the right, causing mild cord flattening.
2) Mild changes of degenerative disc disease in the cervical and lumbar spine
3) Dextroscoliosis of the thoracic spine
4) Small nerve root cysts in the lower cervical spine, of doubtful clinical significance.

The doctor recommended that I do PT at Vanderbilt and see him back in 4 weeks. Once more I am going to give it a shot at PT, but I was already warned that the bone spur in my neck will not resolve on its own and if the pain gets worse I will need surgery. Now, the bone spur is something new that just happened abut a month ago. One morning I woke up and stretched my neck too much I guess. I could not tilt my head to the right at all! It was very painful and lasted for about 2 weeks... now, I can feel that there is something pinching on my neck when I tilt it, but it is not debilitating pain or anything, although I now know it is because of the bone spur. This spur is not the cause of the overall pain though. It is the scoliosis, the bad posture, the spur, the mild disc bulges.. I am a big mess!

To answer to betty,
Pain is located on neck, lower back and mild shoulders. Mostly though on my lower back and neck. My neck is tilted forward and straight as an arrow.
I wake up with no back or neck pain and sleep well through the night. 10 minutes into the day and I am already noticing the effects of gravity on my neck then.. it goes to my lower back. If I lay down, the pain is gone shortly, but as soon as I stand up I am in pain. It is postural no doubt. I went to a neurologist and he had no reason to believe it could be neurological.
The bone spur is pressing the spinal cord, but if I take that away I would still have pain due to all the other afflictions.
Doc said that the small nerve root cysts found on the MRI were not to worry and we all have some.

Basically.. this MRI just added 2 bad problems to my scoliosis. The spur and the degenerative disc disease. I am pretty depressed and not sure what to tackle and how.

Thank you all for your input..

I will add links with my Xrays if interested.

[bscoli]

Hi JMayor,

I wish you well, especially with your next experience with PT at Vanderbilt.

I liked reading this thread, especially the mention by Betty14 about skepticism from anyone making bold claims.

I work with physical therapists at Spinal Dynamics of Wisconsin. Here's a comment one of the PTs recently shared with me when I asked about Schroth and outcomes.

Schroth is used for adolescents and adults, and goals vary. “Sometimes, we seek to slow or reduce curve progression. Sometimes, we strive to help patients live optimally with scoliosis by reducing pain, improving appearance, or optimizing exercise or sports. Physical therapy is not a "be-all and end-all" scoliosis treatment, just as surgery is not. We don’t know for certain which curves will be helped with physical therapy, but we know that therapy yields results for some people. With Schroth, it can be very rewarding to know that we're helping empower patients to take action in addressing their own scoliosis."

You asked for information from people who've had success with Schroth. See an overview of a four-year case history for one patient here:
http://www.sdwpt.com/media/docs/Schroth%20and%20RSC%20Case%20History-3-09.pdf

Again, I wish you the very best in continuing to explore options that can better help you address your challenges.

[gardenjen]

Did your P.T. include neck traction?

[Jimbo]

That website has some good information. However, like most of those non-invasive treatment websites, they always talk about people having problems with the Harrington Rod System, which is very out dated now.

[JMayor]

Hello all, just wanted to update this thread.

I started PT at vanderbilt. They will start me with activation exercises, those that work the multifidus and the transverse abdominal. Also, some postural exercises like bringing my shoulder plates together and holding. Also bringing neck back and holding.
Today my PT mentioned that the height of my vertebrae are high and normal, meaning that the bone has not changed to accommodate the curves. This, leads me to think that maybe the spinecore brace may help me for pain, since my scoliosis is not structural.... and maybe to correct my cobb to some degree. If I am not mistaken and from what I've read, there is no chance to correct a curve if there is a deformation of the bones.

[Pooka1]

I just wanted to compliment you on your signature. You seem very organized and thorough.

I hope you find some relief for your pain. I think people like you with smallish curves but huge pain are in a very tough situation. Can you even find a surgeon who will touch you? Is fusion known to help with pain in smaller curves?

Has the source of your pain been determined? I don't understand how the pain can be due solely to a curve because many folks have larger curves with zero pain including my one daughter.

Good luck.

[JMayor]

hi Pooka!

Thanks for the compliment.

The pain in my case is a result of many things not just the curves..
Starts with the curves you see when you have a frontal Xray, then you add a flat or straight thoracic spine, meaning that I have no Khyphosis, then add flattening of the lumbar spine, add a straight neck without the normal curve it should have, add some rotation of the vertebrae at the thoracic level and you have one messed up and unbalanced spine structure. Muscles work extra hard to compensate for all this and that leads to fatigue and pain.
from what i've learned, if you have mild to moderate scoliosis, but your khyphosis and lordosis is normal, then you won't have much pain if any.

I have been looking into the spinecore now, since it seems that it would force me into better posture, which will hopefully lead to a pain free life..

[Pooka1]

I hope Spinecor works for you. I do believe the few testimonials from adults who claim it helped with pain.

When I looked at your radiograph, it reminded me of a conversation I had with a colleague who has a high curve between his neck and thorax. His description of his spine matches yours though I don't think he has anything else going on with his spine besides the very high curve involving his neck. And I don't think he has chronic pain associated with it but I don't know that.

It all sounded unusual to me but there you are with a seemingly similar situation, at least in the C and T part of the your spine.

Man I hope you get some relief. Life is too short for extended suffering.

[Pooka1]

Oh, can I ask if the pain grew steadily over teh years or maybe as your curves worsened? I'm wondering if the other issues you have beyond scoliosis developed mainly as a result of the scoliosis or developed much more quickly associated with scoliosis.

I think this issue of waiting until a curve hits a certain threshhold (~50*) is not necessarily ethical. What if virtually everyone, even those with smaller curves that are not predicted to reach 50* in a lifetime, develops these other painful conditions in the spine as a direct result of having scoliosis for years? I mean in some cases it seems like you might never need surgery for the curve but you still can't avoid it for these other conditions triggered by it. A miss is as good as a mile.

[JMayor]

Hey!

Yes the pain has gotten worse over the past 2 years. My cobb angles have remained the same though.. but what has changed for the worse is that now I have degenerative disc disease on my lumbar and cervical spine because of the strange forces the scoliosis is putting on my discs. That deterioration would not be as severe as it is in my case at only 30 yrs old if I didn't have scoliosis. Of course when you age, your discs degenerate, but when you have scoliosis, this process begins earlier in life and the pain increases because of this. I have no pain when I am laying down, but as soon as I get vertical.. the stress begins.

[Pooka1]

Okay I see.

Two thoughts..

First, given what you wrote, I don't think it is ethical to wait for kids (or adults) to get to 50* before considering fusion. Also, apparently, the longer you wait, the more levels you will likely need to fuse. Both things argue for a lower, if not much lower, trigger point than 50*, at least for thoracic curves. I think lumbar curves and double/triple curves are another situation.

Second, I think if you could get a job painting ceilings whilst laying on your back, you would be okay at work, yes? :)

[JMayor]

Oh my god.. that would be the perfect job LOL :)

I think that if there is evidence that shows your curve progressing rapidly and causing pain, there is no reason to keep postponing surgery. Like you said, the waiting time will come with disc degeneration and cyst creation, also vertebrae deformation. Life is too short to live it in pain... and I can tell you.. I feel robbed of many years of a happy life doing the things I love, because I am in pain... I can't speak as a parent, but if I had a son or daughter with this condition and she was in pain and progressing, i would not hesitate about surgery.

[Pooka1]

I agree with that thought.

[betty14]

Hello All and thank you for your replies...

I just came back from the doctor and got my MRI results.

IMPRESSION FROM MRI REPORT:

1) Disc osteophyte (bone spur) complex at C5-6, asymmetric to the right, causing mild cord flattening.
2) Mild changes of degenerative disc disease in the cervical and lumbar spine
3) Dextroscoliosis of the thoracic spine
4) Small nerve root cysts in the lower cervical spine, of doubtful clinical significance.

The doctor recommended that I do PT at Vanderbilt and see him back in 4 weeks. Once more I am going to give it a shot at PT, but I was already warned that the bone spur in my neck will not resolve on its own and if the pain gets worse I will need surgery. Now, the bone spur is something new that just happened abut a month ago. One morning I woke up and stretched my neck too much I guess. I could not tilt my head to the right at all! It was very painful and lasted for about 2 weeks... now, I can feel that there is something pinching on my neck when I tilt it, but it is not debilitating pain or anything, although I now know it is because of the bone spur. This spur is not the cause of the overall pain though. It is the scoliosis, the bad posture, the spur, the mild disc bulges.. I am a big mess!

To answer to betty,
Pain is located on neck, lower back and mild shoulders. Mostly though on my lower back and neck. My neck is tilted forward and straight as an arrow.
I wake up with no back or neck pain and sleep well through the night. 10 minutes into the day and I am already noticing the effects of gravity on my neck then.. it goes to my lower back. If I lay down, the pain is gone shortly, but as soon as I stand up I am in pain. It is postural no doubt. I went to a neurologist and he had no reason to believe it could be neurological.
The bone spur is pressing the spinal cord, but if I take that away I would still have pain due to all the other afflictions.
Doc said that the small nerve root cysts found on the MRI were not to worry and we all have some.

Basically.. this MRI just added 2 bad problems to my scoliosis. The spur and the degenerative disc disease. I am pretty depressed and not sure what to tackle and how.

Thank you all for your input..

I will add links with my Xrays if interested.


Hi there, JMayor:

Thanks for answering my questions.

As a PT who works with several physicians, and having done a lot of coursework regarding the spine, I'll give you my two cents.

The results of diagnostic tests like MRI, CT and XR have been shown to be of limited diagnostic value for most back pain. For example, one study (don't have the reference at the moment, but it's out of the book by Jam, "when a back goes out, where does it really go?"- can get it if you want) that looked at these reports and then compared them to the people's actual symptoms found that many many people with no pain have numerous disc bulges, degenerative changes, spurs etc....so the usefulness in these tests is in close correlations with symptoms and findings (ex. pain in a certain pathway down the leg that matches which level a disc bulge is at).

Other than finding #3, your MRI is no different than many other people's with no pain. There are many other factors at play that play a role in pain, such as muscle strength, hypertonicity of muscle, emotions, perceptions etc. Your MRI result is not a disability sentence for you.

So please do not be depressed that the MRI has added 2 "bad problems" to the picture! Almost everyone has C5-6 degeneration, because this is the most mobile segment on the spine, and it sounds like you had a bout of torticollis a while back, which is usually due to sleeping in a funny positions, so a joint like C5-6 can get fixated, causing a great deal of pain for about 10-12 days before settling. Also, the fact that you have no pain at rest is a positive sign. You yourself stated you feel that most of the pain is probably due to postural stress, and you are probably right! IMO, you need to address the postural problem over a longer timeframe and make some lifestyle and perception shifts that will help you be in control of your pain management.

Personally, I often have to councel my patients as above. If the test result totally explained people's symptoms, that would be terrible, given that no therapy can make the bone spur or bulge disappear. Yet, many people recover quite nicely from their painful symptoms in spite of this, by tackling all of the other reasons for their pain.

Cheers, from B.