80 year old diagnosed with scoliosis

[Richka]

I have recently been diagnosed with scoliosis. I am 80 years old, but not your typical 80 as I've been a dancer all my life and danced (strenuous Russian dancing) until age 75 with a farewell performance. I'm not bent over or anything and know no reason why this should develop. It seems to have started a year ago following a surgery on my cervical spine (a cyst between
5th and 6th vertebreas) that was removed. I would never have known about scoliosis until an xray showed two lateral curves. It's a mystery as I've danced my way through life since age 14 (professional ballet as well as Russian folk) so it can't be congenital. This orthopedica surgeon must have started a chain reaction of some kind as other physical problems have started up. I know, you're thinking it's just advancing age. This is of course is true, but I don't think it's entirely that considering my usually excellent spinal health.
I'm still posture perfect, but it's the muscles surrounding the spine that give me pain. Are they affected by the scoliosis?
I guess there's is no cure for it. As you know, orthopedic surgeons won't even take patients after age 35. So, is the only path open to me to be possibly shots of cortisone?

[titaniumed]

Hi Richka,

We don't see very many Russian dancers here, your most likely the first! Welcome.

There are ways to deal with pain, I've tried quite a few methods through the years, and of course water immersion is the easiest. A warm water therapy pool would be of benefit.

I've added a link about older surgeries, up to 100 now, you know... things have changed.
http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8151

Is your scoliosis in your neck, or the whole spine? What does your Doctor say?

Ed

[Richka]

Thanx for the welcome Ed.
I'm new here and this was my first posting and my first reply so hope I'm doing it right. Please let me know.
Well, to answer your question regarding my neck, ever since the cervical spine surgery just over a year ago, the neck is not quite right. It is not painful but there remains a sort of large indentation where the surgeon took out the cyst. It's very visible. And when I move the head or twist as in exercises, I can feel the vertebrea cracking against each other. No pain but sort of scary. The rest of the spine hurts in certain bed positions so I have to sleep straight on my back. All of this stems from that surgery and I believe even the scoliosis as there was never a hint of it before.
I told my primary doctor about it and he traced with his finger the curves in my spine as I bent forward. They are visible. BUT he didn't say anything except giving a referral to another orthopedic. Apparently I have to have a release from the first orthopedic who did the surgery, as I am still "under his care" so they say, though I never sensed I was!
Thanx for your advice about water therapy. I can join a pool aerobics class at my health club and I've been thinking of starting that. I have already started some yoga again, which I have done on and off really all my life. My Russian dancing ended five years ago, when I was STILL doing squat kicks, you know,
squatting down and throwing the legs out alternately. .. that sort of thing.
That was in a farewell performance with the all Russian orchestra I belong to
and formed a dance group to go along with it.
At 80 years of age I felt it was time to stop. I'm a bit sorry I did but all things I suppose must come to an end.
Reading some posting from others here, I'm getting a bit worried as some say the curvatures progress worse and worse, and I'm way past due!
So I'm conscious all the time to keep the good posture as best I can, to avoid a bent stance developing, that I see in so many others my age. Thanx again for your reply.
Richka

[titaniumed]

Richka

Your posts are just fine.

Scoliosis can progress quickly. It happens in seniors often. Linda posted on this very subject a few months ago, and I mentioned that there should be a new category called "senior scoliosis"

Where do you live? I ask this because I've had great success with ocean therapy. Swimming in the ocean can work wonders. There is something about de-weighting and exercising in the salts and minerals that can work wonders. I wouldn't suggest jumping into the North sea, that's way too cold.

Doctors will hand off patients that they feel are not perfect matches. Some are experts in certain areas and some aren't. Its just part of the process. Sometimes patients can be frustrated with this.

It seems that with all that dancing through the years with all those squat kicks, your knees should be the problem, not your back! LOL.

Stay mobile and keep moving.
Ed

[JenniferG]

Hello Richka and welcome to this wonderful forum.

I'm sorry you're having this problem at this stage of your life. In my search for information about surgery for scoliosis in older people I came across cases of people of great age having this surgery. Of course, it would depend on many criteria, not least of all your current health and state of your bones. Have you had a bone density scan?

Being so fit, you are probably not a candidate for osteoporosis, but there are no guarantees. It might be a good start, having a scan which could also rule out a fracture.

The hard part is finding a scoli specialist who you feel comfortable with, and finding out your status as far as surgery or other treatment goes.

Good luck!

[LindaRacine]

I have recently been diagnosed with scoliosis. I am 80 years old, but not your typical 80 as I've been a dancer all my life and danced (strenuous Russian dancing) until age 75 with a farewell performance. I'm not bent over or anything and know no reason why this should develop. It seems to have started a year ago following a surgery on my cervical spine (a cyst between
5th and 6th vertebreas) that was removed. I would never have known about scoliosis until an xray showed two lateral curves. It's a mystery as I've danced my way through life since age 14 (professional ballet as well as Russian folk) so it can't be congenital. This orthopedica surgeon must have started a chain reaction of some kind as other physical problems have started up. I know, you're thinking it's just advancing age. This is of course is true, but I don't think it's entirely that considering my usually excellent spinal health.
I'm still posture perfect, but it's the muscles surrounding the spine that give me pain. Are they affected by the scoliosis?
I guess there's is no cure for it. As you know, orthopedic surgeons won't even take patients after age 35. So, is the only path open to me to be possibly shots of cortisone?
Hi Richka...

Since the problem started after your cervical surgery, and you feel that something is not quite right, I wonder if you've got a functional scoliosis. Functional scoliosis can develop when someone holds their trunk in an unusual way, to avoid the pain that would be present if they held their trunk in the normal way. It's something to look at.

If the curves are structural, they would either have been around for a long time, or they're caused by other issues (like fractures from poor bone quality).

I'm not sure where you heard the "35" cutoff, but that's pretty far from true. The surgeons at UCSF are routinely doing spine surgery on patients over 70 and 80. This patient population has a greatly increased risk of surgical complications, but the ones that I've seen are still getting very good outcomes.

Regards,
Linda

[Richka]

Hi Linda,
Thanx for your welcome to this forum. I'm new at it and not quite sure yet how to navigate it but it seems that it will be very helpful in the long run.
You know already a bit of my history from my original posting and some to Ed.
Linda, I'm not sure what 'functional' scoliosis is, but, being a dancer all my life I believe I have always had perfect posture or as close as it could be. Even now I continue close to military posture. However, since I've started with computers about 10 years ago I may have developed a bit of a slouch, at least while I'm sitting here. I recently bought another computer chair but even that's not exactly a straight back. it's an area I must look into more carefully.
To answer your other question. The Osteo surgeons not accepting over age 35 comes from the The Orthopedic Institute here. I live in Tucson, Arizona and that's their policy. Do you mean it's different elsewhere?
Thanks for your response.
Richka

[Richka]

Hello Richka and welcome to this wonderful forum.

I'm sorry you're having this problem at this stage of your life. In my search for information about surgery for scoliosis in older people I came across cases of people of great age having this surgery. Of course, it would depend on many criteria, not least of all your current health and state of your bones. Have you had a bone density scan?

Being so fit, you are probably not a candidate for osteoporosis, but there are no guarantees. It might be a good start, having a scan which could also rule out a fracture.

The hard part is finding a scoli specialist who you feel comfortable with, and finding out your status as far as surgery or other treatment goes.

Good luck!

Jennifer .. Thanks for your welcome. I have no idea about my bone density but since I've had a lifetime of strenuous male dancing I believe my bones to be not exactly fragile. But who knows? As soon as I reached 80 various things started to go wrong and the cervical spine surgery last year seems to have started a chain reaction. I truly believe that's what started the scoliosis.
Yes, I was wondering about osteoporosis, but I've heard that it doesn't happen so much with men. I'm not bent over or anything like that.
I live in Tucson, Arizona, which is supposed to be the pinacle of medical research and so on, with the University of Arizona here and its breakthroughs in heart research as well as outer space, etc, but it seems most of the doctors I'm saddled with just want to give all sorts of useless, and expensive, tests. The Orthopedic Institute where I had my spinal surgery is next to impossible to get an appointment. However, several years ago when I tore a meniscus in my knee while demonstrating a dance step, the first surgeon wanted to operate so I went to a sports surgeon for a 2nd opinion and he said surgery would do no good. Gave me a cortisone shot and that was the end of it. My knee has been like new ever since!
Sorry, I'm getting off the track. Thanx so much for your help and this site promises to be just the thing I need at this point.
Richka

[LindaRacine]

Richka...

You might want to try him:

Gerard K. Jeong, MD
Tucson Orthopaedic Institute
2424 N. Wyatt Drive, Suite 100
Tucson, AZ 85712
Phone: (520) 784-6303
Fax: (520) 784-6338
Specialties: Adolescent, Adult Scoliosis, Aging Spine, Degenerative Conditions, Juvenile/Infantile

[Pooka1]

The Osteo surgeons not accepting over age 35 comes from the The Orthopedic Institute here. I live in Tucson, Arizona and that's their policy. Do you mean it's different elsewhere?
Thanks for your response.
Richka

Linda, can you put this to bed? There is clearly some misunderstanding here.

[Richka]

Richka...

You might want to try him:

Gerard K. Jeong, MD
Tucson Orthopaedic Institute
2424 N. Wyatt Drive, Suite 100
Tucson, AZ 85712
Phone: (520) 784-6303
Fax: (520) 784-6338
Specialties: Adolescent, Adult Scoliosis, Aging Spine, Degenerative Conditions, Juvenile/Infantile

Hello Linda,
Thanx. Is there a reason you can give me as to your recommendation of
Dr. Jeong? I think he is listed at TOI and I've been there before but is there a particular reason you think I should see him?
Richka

[LindaRacine]

Hi Richka...

First, yes, things are definitely different elsewhere. I'm sure each surgeon has a max patient age with which they're comfortable operating.

And, I posted Dr. Jeong's info because he lists "aging spine" as one of his interests.

Regards,
Linda

[mamamax]

Доброе утро Richka ~ Рад тебя видеть

Prisyadka - the ultimate work out! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1487618123339074871&q=genre%3Abusiness+is%3Afree

I have some deep Agashkin roots in St. Petersburg :-)

In your search for relief - you may also wish to investigate the Schroth Method. Spinecor is also being used successfully on adults at this time. Some links below for you and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

http://www.schroth-scoliosis-treatment.com/
http://www.schrothmethod.com/studies.html
http://www.scoliosisxpert.com/uk/pageuk.php
http://www.scoliosis3dc.com/http%3A__www.scoliosis3dc.com/Scoliosis3DC.html
http://sdwpt.com/

[Richka]

Доброе утро to you as well.
How on earth did you know I performed prisyadki since age 14 and still at age 75?
Da, I am Russian speaking, and spacibo bolshoe for this link to the Stroth method of treating scoliosis. I can't wait to start on it. More later.
Richka

[Richka]

Агашкин roots in St. Petersburg! Great.
I meant to say thanks for the video of Zhel. I am very familiar with this group and have written and have published article about them. I have downloaded the video of the scoliosis treatment and will watch it soon. I think it may be directed more to youngsters though.
Thanks. Richka




Доброе утро Richka ~ Рад тебя видеть

Prisyadka - the ultimate work out! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1487618123339074871&q=genre%3Abusiness+is%3Afree

I have some deep Agashkin roots in St. Petersburg :-)

In your search for relief - you may also wish to investigate the Schroth Method. Spinecor is also being used successfully on adults at this time. Some links below for you and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

http://www.schroth-scoliosis-treatment.com/
http://www.schrothmethod.com/studies.html
http://www.scoliosisxpert.com/uk/pageuk.php
http://www.scoliosis3dc.com/http%3A__www.scoliosis3dc.com/Scoliosis3DC.html
http://sdwpt.com/

[mamamax]

Доброе утро to you as well.
How on earth did you know I performed prisyadki since age 14 and still at age 75?
Da, I am Russian speaking, and spacibo bolshoe for this link to the Stroth method of treating scoliosis. I can't wait to start on it. More later.
Richka

It is an interest of mine :-) Will post a photo of my grandfather and his band later. And, there is after all - only one Richka!

[mamamax]

Агашкин roots in St. Petersburg! Great.
I meant to say thanks for the video of Zhel. I am very familiar with this group and have written and have published article about them. I have downloaded the video of the scoliosis treatment and will watch it soon. I think it may be directed more to youngsters though.
Thanks. Richka

добро пожаловать!

There is no age limit for Schroth (thankfully). Many find much relief with this and I hope you will also Richka. If you are in a lot of pain - the Spinecor brace may be something you will also want to investigate - no age limit on that either. I will be 60 this year and have two healthy curves, a junctional kyphosis measuring 60 degrees, and a lumbar lordosis measuring 60 degrees with multiple vertebral body compressions (наболевший вопрос). I've been wearing this brace since April and have been given a few Schroth exercises to do. The relief has been beyond all expectation from the start. I also had a cervical fusion over 40 years ago (unrelated to my scoliosis). My doctor is Marc Lamantia from NYC. Best to you dear Richka!

Reference: http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/2/S1/S23

[Richka]

You sound to me very encouraging.It is especially painful today and can't help thinking it is getting worse by the day. I'm looking at the xray that was done about 3 or 4 months ago so I'm sure it's worse now. That was done because I thought I might have a kidney stone, but the xray should none, but radiologist pointed out the scoli. Otherwise wouldn't have known. I have appointment with an ortho in couple weeks. I deliberately did not want the one who did the cervical surgery last year because I think that may have started the chain reaction.
I was wondering if my lifting weights every evening out in my garden may have caused this. Maybe the vertebrea can't take it though I've lifted girls overhead lots as a dancer but that's a thing of the distant past I guess.
This is a wonderful forum and already I am learning so much! Thanks for responding and your kind Russian welcome. I don't have Russian fonts or keyboard like you must have. So I must transliterate.
Spikonya Noch.
Richka


добро пожаловать!

There is no age limit for Schroth (thankfully). Many find much relief with this and I hope you will also Richka. If you are in a lot of pain - the Spinecor brace may be something you will also want to investigate - no age limit on that either. I will be 60 this year and have two healthy curves, a junctional kyphosis measuring 60 degrees, and a lumbar lordosis measuring 60 degrees with multiple vertebral body compressions (наболевший вопрос). I've been wearing this brace since April and have been given a few Schroth exercises to do. The relief has been beyond all expectation from the start. I also had a cervical fusion over 40 years ago (unrelated to my scoliosis). My doctor is Marc Lamantia from NYC. Best to you dear Richka!

Reference: http://www.scoliosisjournal.com/content/2/S1/S23

[mamamax]

You sound to me very encouraging.It is especially painful today and can't help thinking it is getting worse by the day. I'm looking at the xray that was done about 3 or 4 months ago so I'm sure it's worse now. That was done because I thought I might have a kidney stone, but the xray should none, but radiologist pointed out the scoli. Otherwise wouldn't have known. I have appointment with an ortho in couple weeks. I deliberately did not want the one who did the cervical surgery last year because I think that may have started the chain reaction.
I was wondering if my lifting weights every evening out in my garden may have caused this. Maybe the vertebrea can't take it though I've lifted girls overhead lots as a dancer but that's a thing of the distant past I guess.
This is a wonderful forum and already I am learning so much! Thanks for responding and your kind Russian welcome. I don't have Russian fonts or keyboard like you must have. So I must transliterate.
Spikonya Noch.
Richka



Richka ~ you are wise to seek further investigation into the causes of this sudden onset of scoliosis. There are many factors that could contribute to it and if you suspect that lifting weights may further worsen your condition - then maybe suspending this until you seek further orthopedic consultation would be a very good idea until you rule out the presence of compression fractures. Given also the pain factor involved right now - maybe call the ortho and see if they can get you in sooner than a few weeks?

I know little about spinal cysts (as your recent cervical operation) but think ruling out that there may be more of them may be a good idea. There is also a form of scoliosis in the more well seasoned population called de Novo. I've included some web links below for you.

Your Russian linguistic ability far outweighs mine - I wish i knew how to say ... wishing you safe journey & safe return :-)



http://www.scoliosisassociates.com/subject.php?pn=degenerative-scoliosis-010

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2435032

http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-edge-newspaper-2009/feb-20a.html

[Richka]

The orthopedic specialist I went to yesterday was absolutely no help. Didn't learn a thing. Offered no treatment other than suggesting physical therapy sessions that never help, for me at least.
I tried to relate the experience I had several days ago when I had severe pain in my left kidney. I was writhing in agony and called an ambulence to ER. That doctor had a CT scan and said it was no kidney stone, possibly the scoliosis. IS it possible that scoliosis can affect the kidney with this severe pain? At least he gave me morphine and pain pills, that made me constipated.
The Urologist was also no help with the kidney story. He said it was muscular. Again the scoliosis!
Does anyone have these experiences with specialists? It's like an assembly line. They can only spare so much time, do not LISTEN and constantly at their computers, as if the computer itself does the diagnosis. WOuld love to know if I am the ONLY ONE.
Thanx
Richka

[Karen Ocker]

My mom, age 92 1/2, from whom I got my scoliosis, was born in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Hers was invisible when I was a child. Now she is really twisted.

[titaniumed]

Richka

Surgery is always a last ditch effort. Doctors will always try an easy way out like physical therapy first. Its the logical decision.

Wow, you are lucky you didn't pass a stone! I passed an 7.5mm dia stone and the ureter has a 2mm internal diameter. That was extremely painful. Sometimes its hard to diagnose what is going on, and sometimes you have to do the "doctor tour" to really find out what is going on.

No you are not the only one. Many of us have been there.

Hope your pain subsides.
Ed

[Richka]

My mom, age 92 1/2, from whom I got my scoliosis, was born in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Hers was invisible when I was a child. Now she is really twisted.

So sorry to hear about your Mom's scoli at age 92 and very twisted. Mine I believe is still in early stages, but the ortho doctor couldn't, or didn't know how, to decide what degrees of curve so I still don't know. I received no real diagnosis, only suggestion of physical therapy. This is the Orthopedic Institute of Tucson, Arizona. Tucson is supposed to be a pinnacle of medical research and treatments, but I sometimes wonder. Same with Urologist. When you call for help on the phone, they look at my age and think I'm just another befuddled old man and I have to assure them I am not at all like that. I'm sure your Mom isn't either. It's their pre-judgement.
I'll bet your Mom has many stories of St. Petersburg. It was still Leningrad when I was there. Russian speaking?
Richka

[dailystrength]

Доброе утро Richka ~ Рад тебя видеть
In your search for relief - you may also wish to investigate the Schroth Method. Spinecor is also being used successfully on adults at this time. Some links below for you and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

http://www.schroth-scoliosis-treatment.com/
http://www.schrothmethod.com/studies.html
http://www.scoliosisxpert.com/uk/pageuk.php
http://www.scoliosis3dc.com/http%3A__www.scoliosis3dc.com/Scoliosis3DC.html
http://sdwpt.com/

Thanks for the links, Mamamax. I have been interested in doing all I can for my back before I consider surgery (and my Dr. will do it)-- I found a practitioner on the East Coast, in Massachusetts:
http://www.scoliosis3dc.com
--if you can open that. . I wrote him to get some more information.

[jrnyc]

dear richka
hi..we've "spoken" before...
in reference to the kidney are pain...whenever i have epidurals, i feel the medicine is going straight into my kidneys, especially the left side, where my curve is the worst...had my last epidural wednesday (3rd in series of 3) & the medicine seems to be "kicking in" (helping) already, even tho it usually takes me many more days to feel better...

but the pain in the kidney thing was awful...the anesthesia/pain dr who did the tx said it may feel like the pain is there, but it was impossible for it to even get into my kidneys...however, i have spinal stenosis, & dr said due to that & the scoli, i have such a "narrow"passageway" there that i was feeling the medicine in other places & it also was muscle spasm stuff....dont know if any of that would apply to your situation..but i also have kidney area pain on days my left side curve is very painful...in my case, it is some kind of a soft tissue thing caused by the severe curve....

i hope you have some pain relief soon...hope you can try every kind of possible pain management tx before you try surgery....

best to you
jess

[Richka]

Hi Guys,
My recent visit to the Tucson Orthopedic Institute seemed a total waste of time. I think the specialist must be comparitively new, an attractive lady of about 30 I would say. She was recommended by the surgeon I had last year, who removed a cyst on my cervical spine, which I still feel started this scoliosis thing. I explained that I was a former professional dancer and she looked at my gait, tested strength in my feet, legs, arms, etc. On the whole, a pleasant person, but after the xray I asked what stage did she think my scoli was in. She didn't know. What degree was the curve? She didn't know.
At home I saw on the Insitute website that I could leave a comment about my visit. Of course they only like praise but mine was, apologetically, negative. I didn't expect anyone to read these comments anyway, but, lo and behold, (to use a biblical phrase), she phoned me, and on a Sunday too.
She explained in detail her diagnosis. She included the xray, which I already had from the radiologist and you never get these unless you ask (I always ask), with a diagram showing degree of curve. Can anyone explain how these calculations are done? Mine has two crossing lines and at intersection shows 28 degrees. I never know if an xray view is from the front or from the back so I can't say which side the curve is on. It would be so helpful if someone could explain this.
I emailed back that this was exacly what I wanted; a FULL diagnosis and thanked her for being so responsive and for taking time out on Sunday to communicate. That's rare isn't it.
Anyway, we finished in a friendly mood (I'm very polite, I think) and I feel she is now is not only an ally but she pointed out with this experience she now has a better sense of her patient's needs.
Many people I know leave an exam bewildered and don't know how, or think they shouldn't, ask questions. I'm not like that and she told me how impressed she was and to even ask more questions. Her treatment is, as was to be expected, physical therapy. I was questioning this at first but decided I will follow through. McKenzie and/or Williams exercises; whichever method reduces radicular symptoms. Does anyone know what these are or have done them? Results?
So, my point is, always ask questions and demand answers. My unfortunate visit to the Urologist the day before is another story.
If you are still with me, Thanx for reading.
Richka

[jrnyc]

dear richka
i dont know the specifics about the measurements (am sure people on here do, like linda & others) but i do know you should see a SCOLIOSIS specialist, not just an orthopedic surgeon or orthopedist....i guess some specialize in other stuff..for example, i have an orthopedist who just does cancer who sees me for a benign tumor in left femur...all he does is cancer, so he refers patients to other orthopedic guys for scoli!!
i am so sorry you are having trouble finding the right doctor, cause once you do find the right one they understand cause that's all or most of what their patients have....
maybe you need to try a different place...did you do a search on the internet for SCOLI specialists in your area...will your insurance cover if you travel out of state?
i am worried that you will end up with a doctor who could do more harm than good, so please dont try any anything til you connect with the right people!

take care
jess

[Richka]

dear richka
hi..we've "spoken" before...
in reference to the kidney are pain...whenever i have epidurals, i feel the medicine is going straight into my kidneys, especially the left side, where my curve is the worst...had my last epidural wednesday (3rd in series of 3) & the medicine seems to be "kicking in" (helping) already, even tho it usually takes me many more days to feel better...

but the pain in the kidney thing was awful...the anesthesia/pain dr who did the tx said it may feel like the pain is there, but it was impossible for it to even get into my kidneys...however, i have spinal stenosis, & dr said due to that & the scoli, i have such a "narrow"passageway" there that i was feeling the medicine in other places & it also was muscle spasm stuff....dont know if any of that would apply to your situation..but i also have kidney area pain on days my left side curve is very painful...in my case, it is some kind of a soft tissue thing caused by the severe curve....

i hope you have some pain relief soon...hope you can try every kind of possible pain management tx before you try surgery....

best to you
jess

Hello Jess,
I can surely relate to your kidney pain. Mine was in the left flank as well. It was in waves of the most horrible pain and only after the morphine did it let up. My fear is that it may come back again.
I'm afraid I don't know what epidurals are but will look it up.
Is you spinal stenosis the same as scoli? I'm new to all this so a bit bewildered by it all. I found if I sit in the hot tub at my health club with my back to a jet stream my back feels a lot better. I think my curve is on the right side but still don't know if the xray was taken from front or back so the way I look at it, it is on the right side of spine. 28 degrees.
Cheers,
Richka

[LindaRacine]

Hi Guys,
My recent visit to the Tucson Orthopedic Institute seemed a total waste of time. I think the specialist must be comparitively new, an attractive lady of about 30 I would say. She was recommended by the surgeon I had last year, who removed a cyst on my cervical spine, which I still feel started this scoliosis thing. I explained that I was a former professional dancer and she looked at my gait, tested strength in my feet, legs, arms, etc. On the whole, a pleasant person, but after the xray I asked what stage did she think my scoli was in. She didn't know. What degree was the curve? She didn't know.
At home I saw on the Insitute website that I could leave a comment about my visit. Of course they only like praise but mine was, apologetically, negative. I didn't expect anyone to read these comments anyway, but, lo and behold, (to use a biblical phrase), she phoned me, and on a Sunday too.
She explained in detail her diagnosis. She included the xray, which I already had from the radiologist and you never get these unless you ask (I always ask), with a diagram showing degree of curve. Can anyone explain how these calculations are done? Mine has two crossing lines and at intersection shows 28 degrees. I never know if an xray view is from the front or from the back so I can't say which side the curve is on. It would be so helpful if someone could explain this.
I emailed back that this was exacly what I wanted; a FULL diagnosis and thanked her for being so responsive and for taking time out on Sunday to communicate. That's rare isn't it.
Anyway, we finished in a friendly mood (I'm very polite, I think) and I feel she is now is not only an ally but she pointed out with this experience she now has a better sense of her patient's needs.
Many people I know leave an exam bewildered and don't know how, or think they shouldn't, ask questions. I'm not like that and she told me how impressed she was and to even ask more questions. Her treatment is, as was to be expected, physical therapy. I was questioning this at first but decided I will follow through. McKenzie and/or Williams exercises; whichever method reduces radicular symptoms. Does anyone know what these are or have done them? Results?
So, my point is, always ask questions and demand answers. My unfortunate visit to the Urologist the day before is another story.
If you are still with me, Thanx for reading.
Richka
Hi Richka...

Here is a link comparing the two exercise programs:

http://www.backtrainer.com/Williams-Flexion-Versus-McKensie-Extension-Exercises-For-Low-Back-Pain.html

I'd be interested in Betty's take on whether these exercises are good for someone with scoliosis.

If your curve measurement is correct, than I suspect that the scoliosis itself is not the cause of your back pain. It would be good to figure out what the actual problem is.

In terms of measurement, it's rather difficult to describe how the Cobb angle is measured in a few short sentences, but I'll try. You need to find the least tilted vertebrae above and below the curve. The way I was taught to find it was to take a pencil and line it up with the top of the apex vertebrae. Now, move the pencil up toward the top of the xray, lining up the pencil with the top of each vertebrae along the way. If you have a typical right thoracic curve, the right side of the pencil will be lower than the left side of the pencil. When the right side of the pencil has to be raised, you've reached the vertebrae above the vertabrae to be used in the measurement. A line is drawn on the top of the last vertebrae before the tilt angle decreased. The bottom vertebrae is found in the same manner.

Here's an article that describes what I've just said, and gives you the details on calculating the Cobb angle:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020501/1817.html

Regards,
Linda

[jrnyc]

dear richka
hi again..stenosis is narrowing...i have a narrowing of my spinal canal, which my doctors tell me causes MUCH pain...also have arthritis of spine caused partly by severe lyme disease...also herniated & degenerative discs...you get the picture...so i think linda is right (most often is) & you need to find out WHAT is the primary cause of your pain, tho i doubt scoliosis helps anything!! also, pain doctors are great, but they treat the symptoms of pain, regardless of where pain is & what is causing it...so it can be great relief, usually temporary...i'm not knocking it! temporary is sometimes all we need just to get out from under the pain long enuf to think straight! in my case, i'm using it to try to think straight about surgery, amongst other things!

best of luck
jess

[leahdragonfly]

Hi Linda,

Thanks for the link to the article, I found it informative and interesting. I was especially interested in the authors comments about brace treatment falling out of favor over the last 20 years due to lack of proof that it is effective, and also the section about likelihood of adult progression based on curve measurement at skeletal maturity.

Richka, sorry to post on your thread--I really hope you can find some help and relief with PT.

Best regards,

[Karen Ocker]

Richka,

The best results are obtained when the true cause of pain is found. This way the source can be addressed. Since you are so physically fit I'm not sure just trying assorted exercise regimens is wise.
Visiting a scoliosis specialist, who treats adults, would sort out these issues.

If, perhaps, you developed an old compression fracture somewhere in your spine, from dancing, then that would have to be addressed. An exercise program might aggravate that, making your pain worse.

[Karen Ocker]

Richka: this forum is not a substitute for a complete medical work-up by a competent physician. That being said there are a lot of clueless physicians. In my case an emergency room physician stated that scoliosis surgery is never done over age 19!!!
Please check out the nosebleed. If you are not satisfied get other opinions.

[Richka]

Richka: this forum is not a substitute for a complete medical work-up by a competent physician. That being said there are a lot of clueless physicians. In my case an emergency room physician stated that scoliosis surgery is never done over age 19!!!
Please check out the nosebleed. If you are not satisfied get other opinions.

I have no idea how this clueless posting has re-appeared, and after 3 years! I have since been away from this scoliosis site after receiving some rude responses and just now have returned. This one popped up. I certainaly never thought that this forum was a substitute for medical work or have ever used it as such. In any case, I have other health concerns now besides scoliosis which now seems a minor complaint. Thankyou.

[mamamax]

I have no idea how this clueless posting has re-appeared, and after 3 years! I have since been away from this scoliosis site after receiving some rude responses and just now have returned. This one popped up. I certainaly never thought that this forum was a substitute for medical work or have ever used it as such. In any case, I have other health concerns now besides scoliosis which now seems a minor complaint. Thankyou.

Hi Richka - nice to see you back. How are you doing?

[jrnyc]

if i read that post correctly, i don't think Richka is really back,
just annoyed to see how his old posts have popped up....

sorry to hear he has other health concerns...

jess

[rohrer01]

I think the spammers are responsible for "reviving" these old threads. I've been seeing a lot of older threads pop up with spam attached. It seems that when Linda removes the post, it still stays near the top of the list.

I'm sorry he's having other health problems, too. I can't believe he danced that long! I've seen that kind of dancing and I wouldn't last one minute!

[Richka]

I'm surprised this thread is still running after I've been away for what I think is possibly 3 years! During that time I've honestly thought little of my scoliosis because I've had 2major surgeries for cancer during that time. Naturally that has consumed my mind. Both my bladder and prostate have been totally removed by my Urologist and I don't think I shall EVER recover from that. I've had to give up dancing of course, which has been my life since age 14 and will never be able to dance again, not even ZUMBA classes that I was doing just before the diagnosis of cancer. I manage to do exercise in form of Chinese Chi Gong and lift free weights but get tired soon. After all, I'm now 84, the new 72. Still not bent over or anything like that. Posture perfect but feel empty around pelvic area; naturally as a lot is missing there. There is a tendency to collapse forward but I force myself to stand and walk tall, straight and shoulders down, etc.
The surgeon said he got all the cancer but it can always re-appear, so it's CT scans every 6 months for the remainder of my life.
Sorry about this detour off the subject of scoli but wanted to give reason for my disappearance.
Well it's nice to be back but I forgot my password. The administrator gave me another temporary one so I will just stay logged in if that is possible.
My best wishes to you all. Sounds crazy but I found out there are things even worse than scoliosis.

[rohrer01]

Welcome, Richka!

I am a new member since you were here last. I must say I really admire your stamina. Some people "get old" and some people can't help it that the years pass by, but keep LIVING despite age stigma. I have a friend that is about 80 now and he has a scoliosis about like yours. You would NEVER know his age, ever. His scoli doesn't seem to bother him, but he's had some disc problems in the lower spine. I congratulate people like you. You are rare gems to be valued.

I'm sorry about the cancer. That must have been terrifying. I'm 43 and had a cancer scare recently, but fortunately the biopsy was negative. So I can understand what you mean when you say there are things worse than scoli. I just wanted to introduce myself and make you feel welcome.

Sincerely,
Rohrer01

I just wanted to make one correction to my statement about things worse than scoliosis. There ARE life-threatening cases of scoliosis, and in these cases, this is probably one of the worst medical conditions to have. There is so much pain associated with many people's scoliosis that can cause the quality of one's life to deteriorate to the point of not wanting to go on. So my statement was made for the majority of people with lesser curves and no chronic pain. I don't want to minimize those that are suffering terribly. The surgery involved in this disease is also one of the most invasive and dangerous surgeries out there. I have a relative by marriage that is dying from her scoliosis and is too weak to have any more surgery. So, for these cases, my comment doesn't apply. I just wanted to make that clear so no one takes offense.