Pretty Good Article on Adol Ido Scol, Risser, Tanner signs, Progression Probability

[ARN010]

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20020501/1817.html

[trcylynn]

First of all please forgive me if I read this wrong but this article actually made me mad...

"patients do not exhibit clinically significant respiratory symptoms with idiopathic scoliosis until their curves are 60 to 100 degrees."

"There is no difference in the prevalence of back pain or mortality between patients with untreated adolescent idiopathic scoliosis and the general population. Therefore, many patients referred to physicians for evaluation of scoliosis do not need radiographic evaluation, back examinations, or treatment. "

"Studies16,17 show an equal incidence of back pain and mortality in the general population and patients with adolescent idiopathic scoliosis. There are few recent studies18-20 that evaluate the long-term cosmetic and psychosocial consequences of progressive spinal curves from the perspective of patients with scoliosis."

So basically this is saying that people with scoliosis do not have back pain worse than the general population? Is this person for real? Please explain to me then how a 23yr old with "mild" scoliosis (25-30 degrees) cannot get out of the bed in the morning without stretching and cannot do certain activities becuase of back pain- and no she's not overweight actually underweight probably.

I'm sure this Dr. can write all about scoliosis because he/she has experienced him/herself right? I'm SICK of Dr.'s acting as though they understand all of the complexities of scoliosis just because they read it in a book. It DOES hurt- it stops me from wanting to wear a bathing suit or tight clothes. But please sit there and tell me again that the pain is in my head and my curve isn't that bad. I pray for the day we have a Dr. that has experienced scoliosis him/herself and not only has the book knowledge but the personal knowledge to relate to the patient. Maybe that will be the day we do more for this.

Please correct me if I interpreted the article wrong- I really hope I did...

[Pooka1]

I can tell you what my daughter's surgeon said recently... he said folks who get operated on for pain in a sub-surgical curve are experiencing pain from other known causes (disc problems, etc.) and not the curve per se. That is, curves can be painless because they are not accompanied by these other pathologies.

What is not clear to me is if he feels that way for curves that are in surgical territory.

[Karen Ocker]

Informative article

While the article makes interesting reading many of us have experiences differing from what's described.

Please note that the references cited in this article are over 10-40 years old--- meaning the material is old and newer discoveries and studies shed more light on our problem. The Internet was not used to share info from around the world and it is not clear how long "long-term follow-up" of untreated scoliosis was. Forty years ago people did not live as long as today.

[titaniumed]

trcylynn,

I agree. This is proof why the patient or parent needs to find the right Doctor if surgery is a consideration. Not a writer, a scoliosis specialist! Also, 2 or more evals are needed and those Doctors need to have similar views. Its a form of redundancy that is important. This can also apply to any critical decisions. (multiple views)

quote:
"There is no difference in the prevalence of back pain or mortality between patients with untreated adolescent idiopathic scoliosis and the general population. Therefore, many patients referred to physicians for evaluation of scoliosis do not need radiographic evaluation, back examinations, or treatment. "

Classic statement!

No difference in mortality without even looking at the patient ?

And there is also no need to look at my ankles if my legs were missing!

It doesnt matter what year it was written.

Think of it as a good article as far as the education process is concerned, developing the powers of reasoning and judgement.

Ed

[ARN010]

Review of Tanner, Risser and Curve Progression Prob'lity

I was using this article's info on Tanner, Risser, and curve progression probability as someone in the forum had asked about that. Yes, we should always discern truth [for us] from what we read. In our case the Risser, Tanner, and probability of progression fit us to the tee....she progressed right at the growth spurt as predicted, etc. My research (from current Pub Med scan on juvenile idio scoliosis) did show that mortality is not increased nor is back pain (except when the lumbar spine is involved below L3) vs. the general population. I thought this was a pretty good layman review article. I'll try to dig out the article that reviewed mortality and morbidity as it was very interesting (gave me a lot of hope regarding future pain for my child). My daughter had no pain prior to surgery with a 50 deg curve. I, with a 15 deg curve, have pain all the time....but was recently diagnosed with myofascial pain (and the treatment is relieving it) the general population has a high incidence of back pain and may have never been evaluated for scoli nor should they necessarily be, as quite often (unless severe curve) the treatment will be the same (stretch, exercise, ice, heat, medication, etc.) whether they have scoli or not (again, except for severe curves). Also, the research I found also seemed to support the lack of respiratory problems until about a 70 deg curve (again, each case is different and some rotate or have double-curves, etc.) --this is a general statistic not a specific statement all need individual evaluation from their surgeons (with a 2nd opinion).

[txmarinemom]

Arno ... I'm going to link to what I posted here the other day ... I'm also a little taken aback at the outdated info - but that's just me.

By all means, do your research ... but one paper/article/study, doesn't mean shyte without concurring opinions. Do your research wisely and skeptically. Learn to interpret what you read. Just because YOUR child didn't have pain at age 10 doesn't mean I didn't have SEVERE pain.

This is what I posted re: pulmonary function. Far different. And prevailing opinion for adults AND JIS/AIS (since this has apparently become such a "difference" between kids and adults ... nevermind most of us adult patients WERE dx'd as kids ... ):

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/showp...5&postcount=11

BTW ... this physician's specialty is ... ? Pardon my suspicion at the aafp.org link ...

Oh, wait ... He HAS no speciality, yet is qualified to expound on scoli?

Licensee Name K A Greiner
Profession Description Medical Doctor (MD)
License Type Active
License Status Current
Specialty 16-Family Practice
License Number 0426390
Address Dept Of Family Med Mail St4010
Address 3901 Rainbow Blvd
City State Zip Kansas City KS 66160
Phone (913)588-1908
Fax (913)588-1910
School Univ of Kansas Medical Center
Degree Date 05/01/1995
Birthdate 1968
Original License Date 08/17/1996
License Expiration Date 06/30/2009
Continuing Education Year 2011
Temporary Permit 9623968
Temporary Permit Issue Date 07/11/1996
Temporary Permit Expiration Date 02/15/1997


Regards,
Pam