Scoliogold?

[orchid]

I am trying to find out about Scoliogold, has anyone ever heard of it? According to the Scoliosis SOS clinic in the UK, it's the only nonsurgical treatment that is scientifically proven to help correct scoliosis (that's what it says on the letter they sent my friend).

I can't find any scientific studies, or medical documents, or anything to back up this claim. No-one seems to have heard of it anywhere. I would like to know who invented this treatment method, because it can't be anyone at the Scoliosis SOS clinic - the only medically trained person they have is one doctor who got her basic medical degree in 2004 according to the General Medical Council (though the clinic claim she is a "world renowned spinal expert"), and all the physiotherapists there are relatively newly qualified too. The Maude family, who run the clinic, have no medical qualifications at all.

The clinic used to say they teach the Schroth Method and they got a lot of publicity because it was supposed to be the first Schroth Clinic in the English speaking world (though the American clinics were open already and the German clinics all speak English) but for some reason it has changed to Scoliogold now - I am wondering if this is because they didn't offer bracing, which is an integral part of Schroth therapy? I know Dr Weiss seemed very unhappy with the clinic.

It really doesn't sound good to me, I can't find any info at all and the clinic isn't even registered with the Healthcare Commission so there doesn't appear to be any regulatory body overseeing what they are claiming to do.

[ecnw]

This intrigued me, so I went to the website - www.scoliosissos.com
You've heard they saying too good to be true. The first pictures you see are of people doing exercises, which I agree can help with pain, stretching out the muscles and can train you on better posture, I know pilates made me feel good. But look at the result photos carefully. First, a lot of people are wearing the same outfit (how many times are you photographed wearing the same thing). Also, I can slump my shoulders and lean to the side to make my back look different, then stand straight shouldered, giving a nice clean line.
In pilates I was taught to position my hip and shoulders to actually be better aligned, practicing in front of a mirror I notice the difference.
I'm not saying that this won't help people, I fully believe in trying alternatives to surgery and medicine, but I'm also realistic. I do more research first.
Emily

[LindaRacine]

I agree... at least half of the pictures are totally faked.

--Linda

[orchid]

Thanks for your replies, that is very interesting!!!! :mad:

My friend who has kyphosis wrote to Scoliosis SOS asking for more information as he's still in pain following his spinal fusion surgery.

They wrote back telling him that "every day you delay treatment, your spinal condition and symptoms are likely to worsen. This is because you are compounding incorrect posture. You can halt this inevitable progression by starting a ScolioGold treatment programme as soon as possible".

My friend is quite angry as his kyphosis isn't going to worsen, it's fused solid. He had given them all the details including the fact that he has two rods and a whole bunch of screws and a long fusion. To say that it is inevitable that it will progress is completely wrong!!!!

The letter went on to say that they have made an appointment for him, giving a date and time when they expected him to attend their clinic, and saying that if this date wasn't convenient, he had to call them as soon as possible to rearrange! He felt that this was really pushy because he only asked them for info about their treatment, not asked to make an appointment. He said that he felt like they were manipulating him to attend.

The appointment was to be with one of their "consultants". Naturally he assumed that this consultant would be someone like the consultant spinal surgeon that he was treated by on the NHS, someone with many years of experience and training. However, he called to enquire as to who the "consultant" he'd be seeing was, and it turned out that it was just one of the clinic's physios! Here in the UK, doctors working in the National Health Service can only call themselves "consultants" after many, many years of training and experience. The info on the Scoliosis SOS webpages shows that their physios are all quite newly-trained, and that they came to Scoliosis SOS fresh out of university with no prior experience.

We tried to find out which regulatory body the clinic was registered with, but it doesn't seem to be registered with or regulated by anyone! According to the Healthcare Commission, the Scoliosis SOS clinic doesn't have any doctors at all, otherwise it would legally be obliged to register with them. The Healthcare Commission seem to think that they only have physios. However a lot of stuff on the web claims that they have a Dr Olga Gronowska working for them, and she IS a qualified doctor. I think anyone who goes to this clinic should definitely ask questions about who is treating them, and what qualifications their "consultant" has!

And we still can't find any evidence anywhere that backs up their claim that "ScolioGold is the only non-surgical treatment in the world that is scientifically proven to correct hyper-kyphosis and similar spinal conditions". My friend has emailed them asking for sources of information and evidence, but they have simply ignored his requests. His surgeon has never heard of it! If anyone can point us in the direction of such evidence, that would be really interesting.

I think anyone should think long and hard before paying thousands of pounds to a clinic which is unregulated and which writes such misleading things in its letters.

[ksobecky]

I also saw this site...it seems real to me...but what do I know...please if anyone out there has more personal experiences with scoliogold or other similar alternative treatments, tell us how successful or not it was.

[txmarinemom]

I also saw this site...it seems real to me...but what do I know...please if anyone out there has more personal experiences with scoliogold or other similar alternative treatments, tell us how successful or not it was.

ksobecky,

I'm curious ... why you'd even consider this "program" after what you've seen written above?

You've got scoliosis veterans who believe the pictures are faked, and you have people (from within the NHS system) attesting to the false claims and credentials of this place.

What more do you need to know about it?

[orchid]

There's no evidence at all that I can find that Scoliogold will work longterm, let alone that the clinic are claiming that it's the only scientifically proven nonsurgical treatment for scoliosis. The clinic has only been open for a couple of years and is run by people with no medical qualifications, and there don't appear to have been any previous trials or peer-reviewed, independent research papers about Scoliogold in existence! And it's not regulated by a proper healthcare body, so there is no-one checking on what they're doing! Scary stuff.

I reckon that anyone who seriously wants to go to that clinic knowing all of this is probably either mad or is working for the clinic in disguise :mad: I could be wrong, please let me know if anyone does find the relevant scientific papers. Neither my NHS consultant nor my friend's has ever heard of it.

[scoliomom]

INteresting to me all the talk of "faked" pictures.. The proof is in the xray. My daughter wears the Cheneau brace and has beed doing Schroth for only 4 months. Recent xrays showed inproved "balance" in her s cruves and both curves had not only NOT increased from the October xrays (47' & 48') but new measures were 42' and 45'....

THey don't generally suggest that curves decrease only hope they don't increase so that is our goal.. We're impressed so far...

We went to Spinal Dynamics in WISC.

[BETall]

INteresting to me all the talk of "faked" pictures.. The proof is in the xray. My daughter wears the Cheneau brace and has beed doing Schroth for only 4 months. Recent xrays showed inproved "balance" in her s cruves and both curves had not only NOT increased from the October xrays (47' & 48') but new measures were 42' and 45'....

THey don't generally suggest that curves decrease only hope they don't increase so that is our goal.. We're impressed so far...

We went to Spinal Dynamics in WISC.
I am so proud of you!

[mariaf]

INteresting to me all the talk of "faked" pictures.. The proof is in the xray. My daughter wears the Cheneau brace and has beed doing Schroth for only 4 months. Recent xrays showed inproved "balance" in her s cruves and both curves had not only NOT increased from the October xrays (47' & 48') but new measures were 42' and 45'....

THey don't generally suggest that curves decrease only hope they don't increase so that is our goal.. We're impressed so far...

We went to Spinal Dynamics in WISC.

Hi Scoliomom,

I truly am happy that your daughter does not seem to be progressing.

However, like many others, I am skeptical at the claims made by some of these clinics.

Also, keep in mind that 5 degrees is within margin of error, and while it is always good to see numbers go down, sometimes a small difference can be attributed to how the x-ray is read and by whom, how the person is standing, etc. That is why they say "5 degrees margin of error". I am NOT trying to rain on your parade, really, just pointing out that this is not proof of success due to any of these exercise programs.

You mention that your daughter wears the Cheneau brace - could it be that bracing is holding her curves? I don't know whether or not these exercise programs offered at Scroth and other clinics can help with regard to things like posture, pain, etc. - but there is no scientific proof that ANY non-surgical method can stop or correct scoliosis - especially cases as severe as some of those shown on the above website! That's all I am saying.

I wish your daughter all the best,

[scoliomom]

Hi Bea, Thanks for the note!!

regarding : You mention that your daughter wears the Cheneau brace - could it be that bracing is holding her curves? I don't know whether or not these exercise programs offered at Scroth and other clinics can help with regard to things like posture, pain, etc.

Of course the braces holds her so she doesn't progress but only to a point. Her out of brace x-rays, unlike many with other braces, are taken only when she has been out of the brace for 24-48 hours, giving her body time to be more "normal" and have gravity do its thing...

She has NO pain and the drs xraying her usually chocked once they see her curves, since it is only minimally noticeable in her posture.

We're doing our thing, avoiding unnecessary surgery... Everyone is entitled to do their own "thing". I have lived with scoliosis my whole life. As long as my daughter has no pain / severed issues we'll keep plugging along with what is working :)

helen :D

[Pooka1]

We're doing our thing, avoiding unnecessary surgery...

This just struck me as odd... everyone to my knowledge is avoiding unnecessary surgery. I am presently avoiding unnecessary surgery in the case of my one daughter. I embraced necessary surgery in the case of my other daughter.

The problem comes in when folks avoid seemingly necessary surgery.

I'm glad your daughter is doing well.

[scoliomom]

This just struck me as odd... everyone to my knowledge is avoiding unnecessary surgery. I am presently avoiding unnecessary surgery in the case of my one daughter. I embraced necessary surgery in the case of my other daughter.

The problem comes in when folks avoid seemingly necessary surgery.

I'm glad your daughter is doing well.


I have no need or desire to banter when / why surgical procedures should be done..
My responses here are purely informational- as someone asked about a system that I have experience with and knowledge of. We all make choices we believe to be best for our kids.


;)

[mariaf]

Of course, Helen and again, I wish your daughter all the best.

Nobody here is questioning another's choice of treatment for their child.

Rather, we DO often question the ever-increasing claims made on this site - many of them are downright "ads" clearly soliciting business - by clinics and other alternative practitioners who offer NO proof they can treat or correct scoliosis. No papers published on any crediblt site, no endorsements by NSF or SRS or any other scoliosis group, etc., Just claims that THEY themselves make about THEIR treatment - a treatment which often costs a lot of money, and I know that some of us are just concerned about desparate parents being taken in by these unproven claims. That's all.

[RugbyLaura]

What really gets my goat about Scoliosis SOS and their "miraculous" treatment is the amount of publicity they are able generate within the UK.

They have a very prominent publicist on board - I don't think they're paying him as he would be v expensive. I understand that this publicist has a daughter who had surgery for scoliosis some years ago. It appears that his misplaced feelings of guilt are driving this thing. I may be being too kind, perhaps he does have one eye on the balance sheet...

It makes me mad that anytime there's anything written about scoliosis in the UK it's always about Scoliosos SOS or some rubbish seeking sympathy for 'brave' disabled kids. I'm frequently sent newspaper cuttings by well meaning friends who are then shocked when I don't rush off to Scoliosis SOS, cheque book in hand.

I have written to both the publicist concerned and the Healthcare Commission, but have had no reply to date.

Helen, as I undertand it, Scoliosis SOS originally started as a provider of Schroth Therapy. For some reason they seem to have dropped any mention of Schroth. And they don't brace. Reading between the lines (actually have seen some evidence, but forget where) it seems that Scoliosis SOS have been prevented from using the Schroth name. Schroth is something else entirely, particulary when combined with bracing - an altogether more reputable form of treatment!

[txmarinemom]

... it seems that Scoliosis SOS have been prevented from using the Scroth name. Shroth is something else entirely, particulary when combined with bracing - an altogether more reputable form of treatment!

Um, except when hawked by a certain member of this forum (BETall - Beatriz Torres - advertised on the NSF homepage under Schroth practitioners ... who posts Schroth as an answer to EVERYTHING).

She send parents of unfused kids links to failed fusion studies. Unethical, not to mention CRUEL. These kids *may* NEED fusion at some point. I won't tell you it's the best thing that can happen to you, but it *certainly* isn't the worst.

This has been brought up numerous times, and her endorsement by NSF remains right there ... no matter what horrors she posts or PM's to parents.

Someone needs to report her to the governing body for PT's in CA. I'm sure they'd be ashamed at her method of "educating" people.

Pam

[Writer]

So warning parents of significant dangers of surgery, documented in a peer-reviewed article by a medical doctor (Dr H-R Weiss trained as an orthopedic surgeon), is "unethical" and "cruel?" This is quite an extraordinary perspective.

It seems to me that NOT warning potential patients of risk of complications of scoliosis surgery is unethical and cruel. As are continuous attempts to shout down or suppress mention of viable, conservative alternatives to surgery on this board.

[txmarinemom]

So warning parents of significant dangers of surgery, documented in a peer-reviewed article by a medical doctor (Dr H-R Weiss trained as an orthopedic surgeon), is "unethical" and "cruel?" This is quite an extraordinary perspective.

It seems to me that NOT warning potential patients of risk of complications of scoliosis surgery is unethical and cruel. As are continuous attempts to shout down or suppress mention of viable, conservative alternatives to surgery on this board.

Torrez responded to a request for bracing shirts with a fake link to the shirts that was actually CLAIMED failed fusion stats. Typical. Very surprised she didn't include a link to her own site again, trying to drum up business. (that would be typical, as well)

Neither of you have contributed anything to this site other than "Schroth cures all!", and "surgery is the anti-christ!"."

And, yes, Writer ... it IS cruel to do that to a Mom who simply asked for undergarment info, with a child in a brace (no matter how much you idolize the Weiss clan). I'll assume you don't have children (or a heart) if you find what she did acceptable.

You seem to have a problem with me, specifically ... and if it's all you have to do with your life, carry on. I can handle your sad little obsession, and your own "extraordinary perspective" with a smile. You're so *cute* when you wax omniscient.

I've said several times before ... most of us are aware of BETall's vested interest ($$$, of course!). One of these days, I'd love to hear yours. One of these days I'll figure it out anyway.

[Writer]

I'm afraid you contribute a great deal of hostility and abrasive remarks to this site, noted by many others over the past few months.

And your obsession is promoting surgery and surgeons, as though observation-brace-surgery were the only solutions. Notice your signature -- "Posterior fusion Feb. 5th, 2008, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, BCM - Houston" -- Isn't that "advertising?" Pot and kettle problem here.

Relatively uncomplicated physical exercises can help scoliosis more often than not, yet several people on this board take great offense at Schroth being mentioned. This is quite bizarre, especially in the Non-Surgical section of the forum. People come here seeking pertinent information about the whole spectrum of alternative treatments, and they deserve to hear about solutions other than the extremely expensive and extremely invasive spinal fusion.

[Pooka1]

Does evidence of efficacy enter into the picture anywhere?

What if someone came on touting homeopathy? What about chiro?

These things and others have never ponied up evidence that they can be used to avoid surgery or bracing.

Until the claims are documented, you are touting a faith position, not a scientific one.

ps. Can you reveal any monetary interests you have in anything you tout? Is there some reason you don't want to do so?

[Writer]

It's a good and valid point that you bring up, pooka, since you are a scientist. People here are looking for real evidence and verification of efficacy. But anybody who works in a research field, and I have worked in several, knows that research is always ongoing and rarely definitive. Let's look at ALL the approaches to scoliosis treatment. Here is an article published this year in a peer-reviewed journal about research on surgery for scoliosis;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18432438?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Quote: "RESULTS: No controlled study, not in the short, mid or long term, searched within the review, has been found to reveal evidence to support the hypothesis that the effects of surgery as a treatment option for AIS is superior to natural history. CONCLUSIONS: No evidence has been found in terms of prospective controlled studies to support surgical intervention from the medical point of view."

On bracing and observation, the other two fundamental treatments of the orthopedist, a 2007 article by two prominent authors concludes:

"When pooled, the bracing surgical rate was 23% compared with 22% in the observation group. Pooled estimates for surgical rate by type of brace, curve type, Cobb angle, Risser sign, and dose were also calculated. CONCLUSION.: Comparing the pooled rates for these two interventions shows no clear advantage of either approach. Based on the evidence presented here, one cannot recommend one approach over the other to prevent the need for surgery in AIS. This recommendation carries a grade of D, indicating that the use of bracing relative to observation is supported by "'troublingly inconsistent or inconclusive studies of any level.'"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17728687?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

In other words, all three approaches of the orthopedic surgeons to adolescent scoliosis have little or weak scientific support.

Regarding the orthopedists' common contention that physical exercises are ineffective for scoliosis, Dr. Martha Hawes points out in the Foreword to her book Scoliosis and the Human Spine, available at the NSF Store online, that:

"statements claiming that scoliosis cannot be stabilized or reversed without bracing or surgery are not, and never have been, supported by scientific data. On the contrary, as detailed in this book, long-standing basic and clinical research results documented in reputable medical journals are consistent with the hypothesis that scoliosis can be reduced if not eliminated using nonsurgical approaches."

I have referred many times in other posts to studies on the Schroth method, which is the most prominent non-surgical treatment for scoliosis. It is not the only one, it simply has the longest history and best documentation, which is why I focus on it. Search PubMed for studies by "Weiss HR scoliosis" in particular, since he is the current medical director of the Schroth clinic.

A recent overview of literature about exercise therapy (Schroth and others) for scoliosis concluded that:

"all studies confirmed the efficacy of exercises in reducing the progression rate (mainly in early puberty) and/or improving the Cobb angles (around the end of growth). Exercises were also shown to be effective in reducing brace prescription."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18432435?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

For conservative methods other than Schroth, see the developing literature (online journal and a couple Proceedings volumes) of SOSORT at http://www.sosort.org The president of the NSF, Joe O'Brien, sits on the SOSORT board of directors and sponsored their annual meeting in 2007.

One can also read personal testimonies of patients or parents on this board for this or that kind of conservative therapy. The evidence is there for exercise therapy if one looks for it.

[Pooka1]

Here is an article published this year in a peer-reviewed journal about research on surgery for scoliosis;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18432438?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Quote: "RESULTS: No controlled study, not in the short, mid or long term, searched within the review, has been found to reveal evidence to support the hypothesis that the effects of surgery as a treatment option for AIS is superior to natural history. CONCLUSIONS: No evidence has been found in terms of prospective controlled studies to support surgical intervention from the medical point of view."

I don't know what is going on here, whether that is a non-peer-reviewed journal or a junk journal or went to inappropriate reviewers (i.e., a nefarious editor actually got an Intelligent Design Creationism paper published in a reputable Biology journal but he did it dishonestly and bypassed the peer review process that would have correctly labeled it as religion not science).

Or maybe an article which would consist of a penetrating glimpse into the obvious (i.e., surgery is required to avoid becoming a pretzel) is unpublishable. Similarly, I imagine it would waste journal space to publish an article detailing how setting broken bones is advantageous.

The article you cite seems to just point out that there are no published studies showing the efficacy of surgery to correct certain cases of AIS. It does NOT prove that surgery isn't absolutely necessary (not cosmetic!) in some cases. It's too obvious that surgery is not only indicated in certain cases but is the only effective solution.

If it was purely cosmetic, why do insurance companies pay out so much for the surgery? I mean they certainly don't view it like a face lift. How do you explain that?

Rather than trying to shoot down an established effective modality (surgery), those authors should instead busy themselves with putting forth evidence for their position which is always conspicuous by its absence.

[mariaf]

If it was purely cosmetic, why do insurance companies pay out so much for the surgery? I mean they certainly don't view it like a face lift. How do you explain that?


I have no desire to join the debate, except to say that what you wrote about insurance companies, Sharon, is so true.

Just last week I took my daughter to the dermatologist and he prescribed a form of Retin-A for her skin (acne). Well, at first the insurance company would not approve the prescription because they said the cream is also used to treat wrinkles and for other cosmetic purposes. I said, um, she's 17 so it obviously isn't being given for wrinkles!

I had to jump through hoops and have the doctor write a letter of WHY he was prescribing it before they would pay. So, yes, insurance companies do NOT like to pay for anything they consider "cosmetic", let alone a costly surgery.

[Pooka1]

After that Intelligent Design Creationism article came out in a reputable science journal, I have lost faith (heh) in the integrity of the editorial process.

Most of the time it works. In fact virtually all the time. But if you have a nefarious editor with a non-scientific, religious agenda, inappropriate articles can get through. The article was retracted by the journal as soon as the funny business was detected but the damage was already done.

So I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the subject article.

[Pooka1]

in case anyone cares... first paragraph...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sternberg

Richard M. Sternberg is an American scientist and intelligent design proponent. He was the editor of the scientific journal Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington who controversially handled the review and editing process of the only article published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal advocating intelligent design. The journal subsequently declared that the paper "does not meet the scientific standards of the Proceedings" and would not have been published had usual editorial practices been followed.[2]

In re the discussion on the other thread, yes, there are intellectually dishonest scientists who are NOT using the scientific method. Luckily, they are few and far between and should not be held up as some sort of Achilles Heel in the scientific method.

[txmarinemom]

... And your obsession is promoting surgery and surgeons, as though observation-brace-surgery were the only solutions. Notice your signature -- "Posterior fusion Feb. 5th, 2008, T4-L1 ... Darrell S. Hanson, BCM - Houston" -- Isn't that "advertising?" Pot and kettle problem here. ...

That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post, and that's HUGE considering some of your previous posts.

You are dead wrong my "obsession is promoting surgery". You obviously haven't read enough of my posts - or simply choose to read the ones where surgery is *discussed*, and without looking, I can assure you it's pre-op and post-op advice/support for people who have already decided to have surgery. You might have a few wackos around who buy your views on that, but the majority of this board knows that is absolutely false.

I NEVER *push* surgery on anyone. The closest I've ever come is encouraging someone to see a competent surgeon to get the facts about their curve(s). I happen to believe it's irresponsible of you to not suggest someone be examined by a real doctor before even trying Schroth.

Whether you believe it or not, not all surgeons push surgery. Mine didn't. He suggested I try yoga, wished me well with it, suggested I read Wolpert's book so I'd know what I was getting myself into IF *I chose* surgery, and said he sincerely hoped I wouldn't be back.

What's your smarmy rebuttal for that? I'm certain you have one.

Never have you made one post of support on here for anyone. Every single post you've made is an ad for Schroth - even for progressing 60-70° curves.

Writer, I actually have nothing against Schroth. If someone wants to try it, more power to 'em. Whether I believe it can correct a curve or not, there's no reason to believe it couldn't be a tool in the pain management arsenal.

Your tactics and bizarre statements (like the one quoted above) are what triggers the alarms for me.

It's clear your purpose here (although more thinly veiled than BETall's) is to make contacts - and I'll go as far as to surmise for monetary gain as a practitioner.

Pam

[Pooka1]

I don't understand this "pushing" surgery charge.

My kid would be a pretzel by now absent her surgical correction of her ever-progressing curve.

In her case at least, the only thing "pushing" the surgery was the curve.

[Karen Ocker]

1: Disabil Rehabil. 2008;30(10):799-807. Links
Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (AIS) - an indication for surgery? A systematic review of the literature.Weiss HR.
Asklepios Katharina Schroth, Spinal Deformities Rehabilitation Centre, Bad Sobernheim, Germany. hr.weiss@asklepios.com

PURPOSE: Historically, the treatment options for AIS, the most common form of scoliosis are: Exercises, in-patient rehabilitation, braces and surgery. While there is evidence in the form of prospective controlled studies that Scoliosis Intensive Rehabilitation (SIR) and braces can alter the natural history of the condition, there is no review on prospective controlled trials for surgical treatment. The aim of this review was to perform a systematic search of the Pub Med literature to reveal the evidence on scoliosis surgery. METHODS: A systematic review has been performed using the Pub Med database. Literature has been searched for the outcome parameter; 'rate of progression' and only prospective controlled studies that have considered the treatment versus the natural history have been included. RESULTS: No controlled study, not in the short, mid or long term, searched within the review, has been found to reveal evidence to support the hypothesis that the effects of surgery as a treatment option for AIS is superior to natural history. CONCLUSIONS: No evidence has been found in terms of prospective controlled studies to support surgical intervention from the medical point of view. In the light of the unknown long-term effects of surgery and in concluding on the lack of evidence already found that surgery might change the signs and symptoms of scoliosis, a randomized controlled trial (RCT) is long overdue. Until such a time that such evidence exists, there can be no medical indication for surgery. The indications for surgery are limited for cosmetic reasons in severe cases and only if the patient and the family agree with this.

PMID: 18432438 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related ArticlesThe treatment of adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (AIS) according to present evidence. A systematic review. [Eur J Phys Rehabil Med.

In other articles written by this author HR Weiss- some of their patients still need surgery despite their best efforts. I believe Schroth can be helpful but still fails and is confined to mostly adolescents. Bracing and PT are used.

I also wonder if this has been correctly translated from German.:confused:

[Qikdraw]

I don't understand this "pushing" surgery charge.

My kid would be a pretzel by now absent her surgical correction of her ever-progressing curve.

In her case at least, the only thing "pushing" the surgery was the curve.

I'd be dead long ago if my surgery never happened. :D So I know I am a little biased. :)

[Pooka1]

I'd be dead long ago if my surgery never happened. :D So I know I am a little biased. :)

Exactly!

I mean we don't need no steenkin' publications to know that plenty of folks who be in serious trouble, if not dead, without surgery.

And yet we see these pubs from Scroth types pointing out the lack of pubs supporting the efficacy of surgery in some scoliosis cases as a "Look at the Wookie" ploy to draw attention away from the fact that they are NOT publishing any positive evidence for Scroth (or rather only THREE pubs by affiliated people in 90 years).

[Pooka1]

1: Disabil Rehabil. 2008;30(10):799-807. Links
Adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (AIS) - an indication for surgery? A systematic review of the literature.Weiss HR.
Asklepios Katharina Schroth, Spinal Deformities Rehabilitation Centre, Bad Sobernheim, Germany. hr.weiss@asklepios.com

PURPOSE: Historically, the treatment options for AIS, the most common form of scoliosis are: Exercises, in-patient rehabilitation, braces and surgery. While there is evidence in the form of prospective controlled studies that Scoliosis Intensive Rehabilitation (SIR) and braces can alter the natural history of the condition, there is no review on prospective controlled trials for surgical treatment. The aim of this review was to perform a systematic search of the Pub Med literature to reveal the evidence on scoliosis surgery. METHODS: A systematic review has been performed using the Pub Med database. Literature has been searched for the outcome parameter; 'rate of progression' and only prospective controlled studies that have considered the treatment versus the natural history have been included. RESULTS: No controlled study, not in the short, mid or long term, searched within the review, has been found to reveal evidence to support the hypothesis that the effects of surgery as a treatment option for AIS is superior to natural history. CONCLUSIONS: No evidence has been found in terms of prospective controlled studies to support surgical intervention from the medical point of view. In the light of the unknown long-term effects of surgery and in concluding on the lack of evidence already found that surgery might change the signs and symptoms of scoliosis, a randomized controlled trial (RCT) is long overdue. Until such a time that such evidence exists, there can be no medical indication for surgery. The indications for surgery are limited for cosmetic reasons in severe cases and only if the patient and the family agree with this.

PMID: 18432438 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related ArticlesThe treatment of adolescent idiopathic scoliosis (AIS) according to present evidence. A systematic review. [Eur J Phys Rehabil Med.

In other articles written by this author HR Weiss- some of their patients still need surgery despite their best efforts. I believe Schroth can be helpful but still fails and is confined to mostly adolescents. Bracing and PT are used.

I also wonder if this has been correctly translated from German.:confused:

I've offered some explanations for this article (non-peer-reviewed, nefarious editing, grey literature, Scroth-controlled publication, etc. etc.)

The main issue is I would not expect that a study would be publishable demonstrating the efficacy of surgical correction of ever-progressing curves. It's like there is probably no publication showing the efficacy of setting broken arm bones. It's so obvious that it isn't publishable nor is it necessary to publish. The thing speaks for itself.... there is no other demonstrated way to stop certain curves from killing the person besides surgery.

The article above does not say that surgery is ineffective. It only states that there are no pubs on the issue. Big difference.

[txmarinemom]

I also wonder if this has been correctly translated from German.:confused[/B]:

Good LORD ... one can only hope NOT.

Pardon me, but "cosmetic" my a**. That's the second most ignorant thing I've read today.

Thanks for posting that to bring everyone up to speed, Karen.

[joan]

I am trying to find out about Scoliogold, has anyone ever heard of it? According to the Scoliosis SOS clinic in the UK, it's the only nonsurgical treatment that is scientifically proven to help correct scoliosis (that's what it says on the letter they sent my friend).

I can't find any scientific studies, or medical documents, or anything to back up this claim. No-one seems to have heard of it anywhere. I would like to know who invented this treatment method, because it can't be anyone at the Scoliosis SOS clinic - the only medically trained person they have is one doctor who got her basic medical degree in 2004 according to the General Medical Council (though the clinic claim she is a "world renowned spinal expert"), and all the physiotherapists there are relatively newly qualified too. The Maude family, who run the clinic, have no medical qualifications at all.

The clinic used to say they teach the Schroth Method and they got a lot of publicity because it was supposed to be the first Schroth Clinic in the English speaking world (though the American clinics were open already and the German clinics all speak English) but for some reason it has changed to Scoliogold now - I am wondering if this is because they didn't offer bracing, which is an integral part of Schroth therapy? I know Dr Weiss seemed very unhappy with the clinic.

It really doesn't sound good to me, I can't find any info at all and the clinic isn't even registered with the Healthcare Commission so there doesn't appear to be any regulatory body overseeing what they are claiming to do.

Hello my daughter visited the sos uk clinic in dec 07(then aged 12)and has been following the exercise regime since. She only has a mild curve, spotted in June 07 and x rayed/and confirmed by NHS consultant Sep 07. Our NHS consultant said the most likely outcome was progression but it was possible but unlikely the curve may not change. Unfortunately it was obvious things were progressing at quite a rate by the time we visited the clinic the rotation and curve had visibly changed. By coincidence the week after we returned an x ray was due it showed a reduced curve. As this was only a reduction of 5 degrees it can really only be confirmed that things had not progressed, given the margin of error of x rays. The most recent x ray Oct 08 a further reduction in the curve was evident again 5 degrees. I have copies of the first two xr and I am waiting for the last copy. But dont know how to open them to put on email. Any advise they are on cd.
I am positive the exercise regime controlled the progression.
I found the clinic staff a dedicated lot, very confident in their abilities and who could blame them, in four weeks the group my daughter had trained with had improved their posture regardless of age or progression of curvature.
I hope this info helps

[Qikdraw]

Exactly!

I mean we don't need no steenkin' publications to know that plenty of folks who be in serious trouble, if not dead, without surgery.

And yet we see these pubs from Scroth types pointing out the lack of pubs supporting the efficacy of surgery in some scoliosis cases as a "Look at the Wookie" ploy to draw attention away from the fact that they are NOT publishing any positive evidence for Scroth (or rather only THREE pubs by affiliated people in 90 years).[/QUOTE]

Wait... There's a wookie? Is it an original Star Wars wookie? Is it still in its original plastic? Cause its worth more if it is. :D

[Pooka1]

And yet we see these pubs from Scroth types pointing out the lack of pubs supporting the efficacy of surgery in some scoliosis cases as a "Look at the Wookie" ploy to draw attention away from the fact that they are NOT publishing any positive evidence for Scroth (or rather only THREE pubs by affiliated people in 90 years).

Wait... There's a wookie? Is it an original Star Wars wookie? Is it still in its original plastic? Cause its worth more if it is. :D

:D:D

Very good.

[Writer]

Here (three posts above this one) is an interesting personal testimony from joan, which shows that Schroth or closely related physiotherapy can stop progression and even reverse it -- in a few weeks' time. And that the SOS clinic in Suffolk is effective. Has anybody else recognized this as a positive report?

Joan -- There are a couple ways to upload photos to share. First copy them from the CD to an appropriate directory on your hard drive (you don't want to have only one copy of them!).

1) You could upload a batch of them to a photo-sharing site like Google's Picasa.

http://picasa.google.com/

2) Or you can post them singly at a site like www.glowfoto.com . Just click the Browse button and find the file on your CD drive or on your hard disk, then click Upload. In a few seconds when it's uploaded you will see a List of LINKS. Click and select the address at DIRECT and copy that into your post. Same with other photos. Then readers of your post can click the link and see the picture(s).

[Pooka1]

Is the basis of Schroth to build up muscle to hold the curve in place?

Is that physiologically possible?

Are the exercises required for life? Can you do them when you're 70 or 80?

What happens if you get sick or become pregnant (that's a question for adults!) and can't continue the exercises?

How long until the muscles weaken and allow the curve to go where it will?

And a question for Joan... did the same person measure all three Cobb angles and use the same upper and lower vertebra?

Thanks.

[joan]

Hello
I don't know what the basis of the exercises are but it seems logical if you can support your curve with bracing from the outside, you should be able to support with your own muscles from the inside. The training has to be specific to each person because of the enormous variation in types of curve.
I met a lady who was 83 at the clinic it was only her first week of training but she said she was feeling the benefit and intended to carry on with the exercises.
If you are not well or pregnant the clinic give advice on how to modify what your doing.
Not sure how fast curves return if you stop exercising
No the same person did not measure curve at was actually three different consultants but they did use the same vertebra.
Our consultant back in sept 07 described the possible outcomes and treatments and timing of such treatments. Bracing in Jan 07 and surgery after growth had slowed possibly 2009.
The exercises he said would do no harm so we gave it a shot.
With a two month waiting list just for a diagnosis and possibly a two year waiting list for surgery, any effort by those who can be helped by exercise to get out of the way of others who have no choice, I think is a good thing.
Best wishes. Joan

[LindaRacine]

Hello
I don't know what the basis of the exercises are but it seems logical if you can support your curve with bracing from the outside, you should be able to support with your own muscles from the inside.

Hi Joan...

Scoliosis braces reduce curves while the patient is in the brace, but when the brace is removed, the vast majority of curves return to their original degrees. A few retain some improvement, and many get worse.

With that said, I think it is possible to reduce one's curves somewhat by very diligent exercise. But, as previously speculated, one's curves will return to their original degrees when the exercise program is discontinued. I suspect a small percentage of people have enough control to stick with a program for the rest of their lives.

And, I think there can be great value to any good physical therapy program in terms of helping with pain.

One just needs to be realistic about the limitations of any treatment (including surgery). There are plenty of studies that have been published in peer-reviewed journals in terms of the effectiveness of bracing (in children) and surgery. I'd like to see the Schroth folks do a long-term outcome study.

Regards,
Linda

[txmarinemom]

I'd like to see the Schroth folks do a long-term outcome study.

One would think the 90 years of success claimed by Schroth would provide enough data to produce ONE (at *least*).

[Pooka1]

One would think the 90 years of success claimed by Schroth would provide enough data to produce ONE (at *least*).

Although not absolute, the fact that we have:

1. no large scale, controlled studies showing the efficacy of Schroth in 90 years, and

2. Weiss, a major proponent of Schroth, publishing NOT about the success of Schroth but on a literature study on NON-Schroth issues,

then we can at least tentatively conclude they have no data. They might get data but it doesn't seem like they have it now. Ninety years.

Even assuming there are no pubs supporting the (penetrating glimpse into the obvious) efficacy of surgery to correct a curve, and even assuming there is no evidence at all that surgery works, pointing that out in no way adds one iota of support for other modalities. It could be they are all wrong. In this case, they are not all wrong... surgery works... but the point stands.

This is the identical error in thinking that creationists make, supposing that if they can shoot down evolution then the only other option is creationism. Evolution (change over time) is a fact but the theory (mechanisms) of evolution continues to be investigated. If the theory is shown to be incorrect then it will be replaced by another scientific theory, NOT religion.

It has to be that the muscles are built up to better hold the curve. But if you don't or can't do the exercises then there is nothing to hold the curve. I don't think it's even empirical... it is muscle tone holding the curve IF it holds the curve. But it's still paranormal because there should be much more evidence by now.

[joan]

Hello Linda
Braces may improve curve whilst being worn but if the brace is supporting the back the muscles may weaken and counter any benefit given.
The benefit to teenagers maybe to slow progression until they have stopped growing and can decide if they would go for surgery or carry on exercising.
I am not sure why there has not been an extensive controlled study, but from a personal point of view I would not sign up for such a study and would feel very mean signing a child up. My daughter worked incredibly hard in her months training and to find out later you were part of the control group I think would be soul destroying.
Regards Joan

[LindaRacine]

I am not sure why there has not been an extensive controlled study, but from a personal point of view I would not sign up for such a study and would feel very mean signing a child up. My daughter worked incredibly hard in her months training and to find out later you were part of the control group I think would be soul destroying.
Regards Joan

I think most would agree that it is probably unethical to withhold treatment for scoliosis just to provide a control group. So, how about an uncontrolled, but long-term follow up? Or, how about a long-term follow up comparison of brace treatment to Schroth treatment?

--Linda

[Writer]

Linda is correct about the probably unethical nature of a true controlled study on such a topic, as it would deny treatment to the control group and the benefits of Schroth treatment are already known. Hans-Rudolf Weiss has already mentioned this consideration in at least one of his publications.

Pooka and tx are incorrect about paucity of data and publications on Schroth. Have they done a careful search? No, they have not. Even a quick search in PubMed on "Weiss HR scoliosis" yields three pages of citations.

There is a great deal of data and there are dozens of publications on various aspects of the method and its results, starting in 1924. In other posts I've only cited a few that are in English and easily available, and I never suggested they were the only ones.

I'm preparing a new post that will list many of these and refer to lists elsewhere of others, and I will put a link to it in this thread when it's finished. This preliminary rejoinder today is simply to counter any accusation or misconception that the Schroth method lacks requisite scientific underpinning and reporting.

[Writer]

Incidentally, the impartial reader who wishes to hear more first-hand reports of treatment at the Scoliosis SOS clinic in England as well as the German one in Bad Sobernheim might log onto the English scoliosis forum at http://www.scoliosis-support.org/

[Pooka1]

There is a reason why the bulk of the brace literature before recently is garbage. And this reason is widely acknowledged NOW.

It is the lack of a control group.

The results were wildly exaggerated efficacy rates reported because they included some kids whose curves would not have progressed anyway but who were braced.

As I understand it, the situation today is that because bracing isn't obviously effective in many cases (when throwing out the uncontrolled data), it is NOT unethical to watch and wait. In fact there is a large study with that protocol going on as we type. This "natural history" control group could also be the control group for a Scroth study.

Hopefully, they will be able to figure out which kids benefit from bracing and which don't with this protocol. Then we won't need a control group or even studies, just like is now the case for surgery in known cases.

Writer, can you list the Scroth publications that are JUST on their results and JUST in peer-reviewed literature? That is, remove from the list pubs on the supposed lack of call for surgery or any other topic that is NOT actual Scroth results. Any language is fine, don't limit it to English language please.

How many would that be out of the total?

Thanks

[RugbyLaura]

May I just reinterate that Scoliosis SOS is NOT a Schroth clinic. In fact, as I undertand it, they have been banned from using the Schroth name.

Joan - I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE for there to be a non-surgical answer to my daughter's scoliosis. I would make sure she exercised 5 hours a day if it could help. I am thrilled that your daughter has had such success but I still think it's a money making load of hooey, feeding on the vulnerable and desperate. OK, in some cases there may be some benefit in the exercises - Not a miraculous improvement in curve, but in flexibility and agility and mental wellbeing. If this is the case, then great! For those that can afford to pay...

I would love to see the x-rays too - the photographs on the website look totally bogus to me. In almost every one the shoulders are considerably higher in the second photo. Surely just how they're standing?? Also, in the youngest age group (the only one I have looked at) the children look suspiciously more slender in the second one... Some kind of re-touching going on?

On the UK forum I seem to remember that we have had cases of people claiming to be patients who are actually attempting to sell the clinic so I am very wary.

Anyway, again SCOLIOSIS SOS IS NOT A SCHROTH CLINIC.

[joan]

Hello Laura
Apologies for using schroth name, when we visited the new name was not yet being used. I did not mean to suggest anything by it.
The consultant said the therapy would do no harm so we gave it a shot. My reason for replying to orchids original thread was her direct appeal for info from anyone who had visited the clinic.
Do not have any connection with clinic other than described.
Still have not been able to open x ray cd to copy in any format but will keep trying.
Best wishes
Joan

[Pooka1]

Maybe they are zipped? Are they in XVQuickview.exe?

If so, maybe the following directions will help... my vet sent my horse's hoof radiographs to me in this format and I went through these instructions to view them and post them to some online fora for comment...

Directions for opening the files radiographs:

1. Double click on Zip folder. It will ask if you want to save or open. Choose open.
2. Double click on the one and only folder that is in the box. (named by client’s last name)
3. Double click on the last icon which is the XVQuickview.exe file
4. Choose “extract all” on the compressed zip folder warning window
5. Go through the extract files wizard saying “yes” to all questions
6. Double click on the one and only folder that is in the box (named by client’s last name)
7. Double click on XVQuickview.exe which can now be seen as an application instead of just an icon as in step 3.
8. Choose “Run” in the window that pops up.
9. Manipulate radiographs as needed. Referred to another attached document named “Viewing Directions” for directions on manipulating images.

[LindaRacine]

There is a reason why the bulk of the brace literature before recently is garbage. And this reason is widely acknowledged NOW.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Why would reputable scoliosis surgeons continue to prescribe custom made TLSO braces for kids with curves between 20-40 degrees? If you believe the anti-surgery folks, these surgeons have a lot to gain by having patients who fall into the surgery parameters. Bracing is not a perfect option, but nothing is. When braces are used in the correct population, and manufactured correctly, they can be very effective:

Spine. 2007 Sep 15;32(20):2198-207.Click here to read Links
A prospective study of brace treatment versus observation alone in adolescent idiopathic scoliosis: a follow-up mean of 16 years after maturity.
Danielsson AJ, Hasserius R, Ohlin A, Nachemson AL.

Department of Orthopedics, Sahlgrenska University Hospital, Göteborg, Sweden. danielsson.aina@telia.com

STUDY DESIGN: The Swedish patients included in the previous SRS brace study were invited to take part in a long-term follow-up. OBJECTIVE: To investigate the rate of scoliosis surgery and progression of curves from baseline as well as after maturity. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Brace treatment was shown to be superior to electrical muscle stimulation, as well as observation alone, in the original SRS brace study. Few other studies have shown that brace treatment is effective in the treatment of scoliosis. METHODS: Of 106 patients, 41 in Malmö (all Boston brace treatment) and 65 in Göteborg (observation alone as the intention to treat), 87% attended the follow-up, including radiography and chart review. All radiographs were (re)measured for curve size (Cobb method) by an unbiased examiner. Searching in the mandatory national database for performed surgery identified patients who had undergone surgery after maturity. RESULTS: The mean follow-up time was 16 years and the mean age at follow-up was 32 years The 2 treatment groups had equal curve size at inclusion. The curve size of patients who were treated with a brace from the start was reduced by 6 degrees during treatment, but the curve size returned to the same level during the follow-up period. No patients who were primarily braced went on to undergo surgery. In patients with observation alone as the intention to treat, 20% were braced during adolescence due to progression and another 10% underwent surgery. Seventy percent were only observed and increased by 6 degrees from inclusion until now. No patients underwent surgery after maturity. Progression was related to premenarchal status. CONCLUSION: The curves of patients with adolescent idiopathic scoliosis with a moderate or smaller size at maturity did not deteriorate beyond their original curve size at the 16-year follow-up. No patients treated primarily with a brace went on to undergo surgery, whereas 6 patients (10%) in the observation group required surgery during adolescence compared with none after maturity. Curve progression was related to immaturity.

Thankfully, a DNA test for curve progression risk is only months away. Future studies will be done only on those who are at risk of progression.

Regards,
Linda

[Pooka1]

Hey Linda,

I was referring to this...

http://www.scoliosis.org/resources/medicalupdates/adolescentbracing.php

In 1985, the Scoliosis Research Society (SRS) initiated a study to investigate the effectiveness of bracing as a treatment for scoliosis. Many previous studies of full time bracing showed that braces stop about 80% of curves. All of these studies, however, were "uncontrolled" which means there were no simultaneous groups of untreated, unbraced patients for comparison. Therefore, there was some doubt that brace treatment of scoliosis was effective, and concern that bracing may be no different than "natural history" or what happens when no treatment is undertaken.

I know there are studies now with control groups that show efficacy of bracing. But the situation is such that watching and waiting is a viable option in known instances.

[PNUTTRO]

Thankfully, a DNA test for curve progression risk is only months away. Future studies will be done only on those who are at risk of progression.

Linda, what are you referencing here. It seems premature.

p

[LindaRacine]

Linda, what are you referencing here. It seems premature.

p

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS194319+11-Sep-2008+PRN20080911

[LindaRacine]

Hey Linda,

I was referring to this...

http://www.scoliosis.org/resources/medicalupdates/adolescentbracing.php

In 1985, the Scoliosis Research Society (SRS) initiated a study to investigate the effectiveness of bracing as a treatment for scoliosis. Many previous studies of full time bracing showed that braces stop about 80% of curves. All of these studies, however, were "uncontrolled" which means there were no simultaneous groups of untreated, unbraced patients for comparison. Therefore, there was some doubt that brace treatment of scoliosis was effective, and concern that bracing may be no different than "natural history" or what happens when no treatment is undertaken.

I know there are studies now with control groups that show efficacy of bracing. But the situation is such that watching and waiting is a viable option in known instances.
Absolutely. Bracing is effective for a group of patients who have a certain criteria. And, waiting and watching is effective for a different patient group.

[PNUTTRO]

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS194319+11-Sep-2008+PRN20080911

Thanks, Linda.

I am always skeptical until I see what the actual test is.

pc

[Essi]

Hello,

i'm new to this forum so forgive me if i say anything that shouldn't be said.

Anyway, my name is Esther (from Australia) and i went to the scoliosis SOS clinic about 2 and a half years ago, just when it was opening in England. I was 13 when i first went to the clinic, with a curve of about 56(54-58) degrees. I have to admit the exercises were very hard to keep up at first, but over time i got used to them and they were part of my daily routine. I wasn't quite sure if the treatment was going to work, but i really didn't want to have surgery, so i gave it a hard go. 6 months after i first went, i got some x-rays and my back had not only just stayed the same but went down to 49(47-51). I tried to keep my exercises up, but when it reached 2 years i felt like i didn't have anything left in me, so i slowly started to give up. Then i decided maybe it was time i was to go back, to see if i could get some extra inspiration and maybe improve.(At this time my curve was 52[50-54])

So a little less then a month ago (now alomost 16 years old) i went back to SOS for a week to have a check up, and it helped me alot. I see my surgeon next week for some more x-rays to see if it has stayed the same. I know this treatment doesn't work for everybody, but it has seriously changed my life forever. I met alot of other people other there with scoliosis and it made me feel good that i could relate to other people with it. The therapists and the Maude family are really friendly and helpful, they put in alot of time and effort.

If anybody else would like to ask about the treatment or anything else, please feel free to ask me.

(: