Structural Integration for Scoliosis

[rtremb]

This link shows a Structural Integration (rolfing) treatment for scoliosis:

http://www.somatics.de/ScoliosisFulgenzi/ScoliosisFulgenzi.htm

Ruth

[stephanieC]

Hi Ruth,

Are you doing this treatment with Esme? It seems like a wonderful way to enhance what the spine cor is doing for her. I plan to start some type of PT for my daughter, Michela, soon. She is not braced yet but may soon be. We are also looking into vertebral stapling. Either way, at some point, we will work in some type of controlled physical therapy. Strengthening the back and leg muscles is a great idea no matter what. Some phsyical therapy facility's have specific exercise programs geared for scoliosis patients now. They have a better idea of the special needs a scoli patient has. Thanks for you post. :)

Stephanie

[rtremb]

Stephanie: I will post on the forum how Esme responds to this therapy. We have never done anything like this before so it will be interesting to see if she benefits from it - especially in the long-term. Ruth

[jillw]

Ruth, When will Esme start the treatment?

Jill

[jillw]

Also, Structural had posted some studies related to Structural Integration and Scoliosis as it relates to pain management under a thread in "non-surgical treatments" titled "Pain Management"

[rtremb]

Jill:
Our first appointment is this Thursday afternoon.
Ruth

[rtremb]

Well we had our first appointment for Structural Integration today with Miranda. We talked for an hour about Esme's posture and her medical history. We took full length photographs from various angles. Miranda was surprised by how well Esme has adjusted her posture to look "normal" given the size of her curves.

Miranda recommended Esme wear a special shoe and a shoe insert to straighten out her feet. Her feet don't face forward but out to the side. The shoes are to help correct her standing position which affects the way her whole body positions itself.

We go back on Monday for Esme's first actual "hands-on" treatment.

Miranda said the Spinecor brace would be okay with the SI treatments but a hard brace would not have been. A hard brace would not allow the body to benefit from the SI treatments.

Ruth

[jillw]

Thanks for the update Ruth. How long will her session last when she goes on Monday? I was reading general information on Rolfing and they indicated 10 sessions of an hour each but said the sessions might be shorter for children and might be a number different than 10. Did she indicate a range of how many sessions she envisioned for Esme? I'll be looking forward to hear how it goes on Monday. Also, probably something you have already thought about but thought I'd mention it anyway just in case - if you do use inserts will you let the spinecor doctor know? (I'm wondering if the fitting of the brace might have to be adjusted concurrently?) Good luck!

[rtremb]

Jill:

Esme's sessions will be one hour - she may need more than 10 treatments but that will depend on whether we think Esme is benefitting from the SI. It is interesting you read that children might have shorter sessions - maybe an hour is too intense for them?

The SI therapist also recommended increasing Esme's yoga from one hour a week to three, one hour sessions each week.

Yes, I wondered about the shoes & shoe insert and whether this would affect the brace - we go back to Montreal November 28th so we can ask then. Her number 1 strap seems to be loose after wearing the brace for just over a week - don't know what this means.

[rtremb]

Well Esme had her first one hour SI session with Miranda Dayvis. The session actually went for about an hour and a half - not only because Miranda was so thorough with her treatment - but also because Esme kept giggling and laughing so much. At first it was because Miranda was working on some ticklish spots but later at one point Esme just couldn't stop laughing for about three or four minutes. It was like a sudden huge emotional release. I haven't heard her laugh like that in a long time - probably not since the doctor told her last August he wanted to operate in February!!

Anyway, she enjoyed the session, did not suffer any pain or get any bruises (something her paediatrian suggested to us might happen!!). What is it with doctors always making you feel like you shouldn't try anything but bracing and surgery?

We will go back again in two weeks. Esme is to do yoga (Hatha) three times a week in the meantime.

Ruth

[WNCmom]

Great news, Ruth. We observed something similar (no giggling, but repeated statements about how happy he felt, what a good day he was having) in Sidney after his first MFR session. Very mysterious this scoliosis, no? I will follow Esme's progress with SI with interest--we may want to go there at some point. For now we are feeling really good about the current practitioner doing the MFR (who, by the way, has also mentioned that the Spinecor brace works well with the treatments). Anyway, I'm so happy for Esme (and you) that this is a good experience!

Also thanks for mentioning Scoliosis and the Human Spine by Martha Hawes. Our copy arrived yesterday--very interesting.

Mary Ellen

[rtremb]

Mary Ellen:
Martha Hawes wrote some other books too. The book we have is very interesting and informative but I had hoped it would be more specific about how she reduced her curves - I am wondering if she wrote one about this. Will do some googling......
Ruth

[Celia Vogel]

Ruth,

I don't know if you have seen this abstract. I can't remember if I have read this article or not :confused: I'll check. I'm also not sure what CMM entails.


1: Stud Health Technol Inform. 2002;91:365-8. Links

Reversal of the signs and symptoms of moderately severe idiopathic scoliosis in response to physical methods.


Hawes MC, Brooks WJ.
Department of Plant Pathology, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ 85721, USA.

This report describes improved signs and symptoms of previously untreated symptomatic spinal deformity in an adult female diagnosed with moderately severe thoracic scoliosis at the age of .7 years. Current treatment initiated at the age of forty included massage therapy, manual traction, ischemic pressure, and comprehensive manipulative medicine (CMM). A left-right chest circumference inequity was reduced by >10 cm, in correlation with improved appearance of the ribcage deformity and a 40% reduction in magnitude of Cobb angle, which had been stable for 30 years. The changes occurred gradually over an eight-year period, with the most rapid improvement occurring during two periods when CMM was employed.PMID: 15457757 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

[jillw]

Ruth, have there been any more SI treatments and if so, how did they go?

I'm going to send you a PM.

thanks, Jill

[rtremb]

Jill:
We go for the second treatment next Tuesday afternoon. I started a New Thread about Pronation and Scoliosis under Watching and Waiting. I added an interesting website link my husband found. What do you think?
Ruth

[rtremb]

Esme has had her second SI therapy session. This time Miranda worked on her feet and legs a lot then worked up to her thigh area and then a little on her back and neck. Lots more giggling this time again.

Esme is wearing the SuperFeet inserts and says her shoes feel wierd without them now. She doesn't have them in her boots and we had 25 cm of snow today and she was complaining that she didn't have her inserts. We might have to buy another set for her boots!!

We are going back for another treatment on Friday afternoon before we go to Montreal next Wednesday since the third SI treatment in the 10 series focuses heavily on the back. Miranda said that the work on the feet and legs can tighten up the back temporarily until the back is worked on again so we asked if Esme could have a treatment sooner than the usual two weeks since we are going to Montreal for the one month check-up.

We are not having any chiropractic treatments or doing any Pettibon at the present time - we have chosen to go with the Spinecor and the SI and yoga for now.

Ruth

[rtremb]

We had an interesting experience today at the end of Esme's third SI treatment. Miranda had asked her stand up a couple of times during the treatment, which was focusing mainly on her torso, back and neck, and I didn't notice any real difference in her back HOWEVER at the end Miranda asked her to stand up so she could look at her. I was very surprised to see that Esme's back looked 95% even. She was standing up straighter - I am sure she looked taller. Her shoulders were further back and straighter. It was an amazing thing to see. I felt her spine (which I do a lot) and it for sure, for sure felt straighter. My husband was waiting downstairs and I asked him to come up to see the result of today's treatment. He too was pleased and amazed by what he saw. Miranda did caution us that there would be some return to the "old" position but said that as the treatments continue the back will return less and less to its "old" position leading to an eventual signficant improvement.

I have to admit I was a little skeptical about these treatments - having read and heard so much about things not working that look and read like they should. I went into it thinking we'd give it a try hoping for the best. However today has convinced me there really is something to these SI treatments. What the end result will be for Esme I don't know but I am now feeling very optimistic we are doing something good for her with this.

Ruth

[structural75]

Ruth,

Thanks for the updates... I'm very happy to hear that she's doing well with the work. And she seems to be enjoying it too... that's equally important!

Miranda may have mentioned this, but I thought it couldn't hurt to reiterate. I would suggest that you ask the Drs in Montreal to re-check and re-fit/re-adjust the brace for her when you're there. Even if they seem skeptical of the reasoning for it, it is very much worth the effort to do it. If they don't re-adjust during the SI process then the brace will end up fighting/defeating the effects of the work by putting her back towards the original position she started before the sessions.

You or they may already be planning to do so, .. in which case ignore me and my comments.

Best to you all!
Structural

[rtremb]

Structural:

We saw Dr. Rivard today and he was very supportive of SI treatments - especially for pain relief. We go back in three months for a check-up. He did not suggest to go earlier for an adjustment of the brace because of SI treatments. If the brace seems looser or doesn't look like it is fitting right we will call, or go back to, Dr. Rivard.

Dr. Rivard was also supportive of yoga which Miranda has asked Esme do three times a week. She goes once a week for an hour and is doing special scoliosis yoga exercises at home in between.

Esme will be seeing Miranda again next Tuesday. We can't wait........!

Ruth

[proudmom2_2]

Ruth,
I'm new here, but I've been inspired by your posts about Esme...my daughter, Lindsay (13yo), has a 42 T/28 L curve and we are doing the Clear Institute program. We start Rolfing this week. I was hoping you wouldn't mind me asking what all Esme does on a daily basis to help her? Lindsay works out 2 hours twice a day. I'm amazed at what all Esme is doing! Thanks for reading.

Tina :)

[rtremb]

Tina:

Currently Esme is wearing the Spinecor brace, having Structural Integration (Rolfing) treatments and doing yoga.

We were doing the Pettibon (Clear Institute) treatments but the chiropractor wanted to do vibration traction using a Boston brace which we were not prepared to go along with so we have dropped out of that - at least for now. We were concerned about spine collapse if she had the treatment with the traction and brace. Also she got a very painful tortocollis which we suspect came from the over the door neck traction.

We still have the option of pursuing the shroth treatments if what we are doing isn't working but we are content with what we are doing at the moment. Esme has another SI treatment this evening.

Ruth

[proudmom2_2]

Ruth,
Can you give me some insight on the yoga? I would love to check into it. I'm surprised the chiro suggested the hard brace. The one we're seeing wouldn't allow Lindsay to wear hers. I didn't know that there was differences in the way they went about the program, I assumed their was a protocol they all went by? I'm curious about the tortocollis...Lindsay has complained about her neck popping constantly when she does the overdoor traction and the chiro just says its nothing. Lindsay has also complained about arm numbness when sitting in the 'chair' and she 'blows' that off too. I had our orhopedic surgeon verify that her curve was a 42 and told him about the numbness today and he was very concerned. He ordered an MRI. I'm confused, somewhat on whether its for us or not.
I'm also interested in the Shroth treatments you mentioned...would love to hear about that when you have time as well! Sorry for all the questions..Thank you very much for replying!
Tina

[rtremb]

Tina:

Re: Yoga - there are special exercises for scoliosis - you might be able to get a video or a book from the library on these. Esme does Hatha yoga too. The yoga is good for stretching and involves a lot of deep breathing which is believed to help with scoliosis.

We went to the chiropractor in the first place because we didn't want to put Esme in a hard brace. As we continued to go for the treatments a new Pettibon treatment was being introduced which involved the use of a hard brace. The patient is to sit in a vibrating chair in a neck traction unit - as the spine is vibrated they claimed the spine would straighten and then the brace is tightened and tightened again then it is left on until bedtime when it is taken off. We were not willing to do this.

Esme complained about her neck cracking too. This was alarming to me and made me very uncomfortable. When she got the tortocollis that was it for me with the neck traction. She did not do it any more after that.

I don't know a lot about the arm numbness. Esme did get arm numbness when she wore her night brace (Charleston). It was so bad she couldn't really wear the brace. The doctor ordered an MRI for her too because of the arm numbness and tingling but the MRI did not show anything wrong.

For the schroth treatments you can go to these links:

http://www.scoliosisrehab.com/

http://www.skoliose.com/Html/Englisch02.htm

There are lots of other websites too if you google "Schroth" "scoliosis"

I don't mind all the questions so don't hesitate to ask. I am not a medical doctor and not an expert by any means just a parent who has done a lot of reading.

Esme had another SI treatment tonight and her lumbar spine looked really good afterwards. We are very comfortable with these treatments and Esme loves it.

Ruth

[proudmom2_2]

Ruth, Thanks for the yoga info! Thats interesting about the Pettibon treatments and the hard brace. Lindsay uses the straps built in on the chair...that bothers me to think that its still so new that they are still trying new things...do you know if they even have long term studies to prove what they are doing is legit?
Thats weird that her neck cracked too? Like I said when we asked the chiro about it thats treating Lindsay, she says, "oh, mine does that too, its no big deal"...i'm like, okay, I wouldn't think that would be normal, but then again you put your trust into these people. I hope we're not doing any damage. I'm going in today to talk to our family chiro about all this.
About the numbness, thats what I'm thinking...I think its probably nothing as well because she only complains about it when shes strapped in the chair or when she was wearing her brace. I guess with all the pushing going on it must be hitting some nerves. She doesn't complain any other time.
Thanks for the sites, I will read up on these!! I'm glad Esme likes her Rolfing! I hope Lindsay likes it too! We start tomorrow so we'll see :) . Thanks for chatting with me! I would love to keep up with Esme's progress, please keep posting about it! :)
Tina

[structural75]

Proudmom,

Just thought I'd make note that regardless of what the chiro says to downgrade the nerve sensations, it is not a normal or acceptable. Nerve impingement, whether temporary/intermittent or constant, will cause neurogenic inflammation which can result in damage to the nerve. This type of reaction when utilizing any treatment shouldn't be occurring. If it is, one should modify or eliminate that particular thing.

Regardless of its efficacy or not, tractioning the neck with weights isn't a very intelligent idea (I refer to the chiros intelligence here, certainly not yours). Cracking/popping is unnecessary and the sudden distraction of the vertabrae that is happening to cause that pop could potentially cause trauma/injury to the neck. Thus the torticollis response Ruth's daughter had... That is a very clear sign that pulling on the neck is not the best idea. Also consider that the neck contains roughly 40% of our bodies sensory receptors... meaning that the input our neck is getting has a very influential effect on the entire body... When subject to that type of brute force, it can have negative systemic effects. Our nervous system will interpret that kind of input (constant traction/pulling on the cervicals) as an insult/potential harm to the system... We don't often hear of this response because 'professionals' doing this stuff are only looking at the external form of the spine following treatment, rather than properly and accurately assessing what the effect is on the vital soft tissue components surrounding the bones... i.e.- Is the response of this tissue positive or negative via bracing/guarding effects? Unfortunately we only tend to see its effect when it's dramatic or gone way too far as in the case with Ruth's daughter.

Hope that's of some use to help sort things out.
structural

[proudmom2_2]

Structural75, that makes sense about the nerves...thanks for posting, it did shed some new light for me on the issue. She seems to ignore any complaints we have had. I guess that should be a red flag. We still haven't decided...its such a hard decision. Some say do it 4 more weeks and see; what do you got to lose and some say leave; its not working...sigh...I'm in the middle of the road, I don't know what to do although I do feel like I have something to lose if I continue the treatments without them working. And like you stated...I don't want to do any harm from the exercises. I'm going to check into the other options and go from there. Thanks again!
Tina