Clear Institute, Spinecor

[Pbbun21]

Has anyone ever used these? what were the results and how much do the treatments cost? I am in MA and Spinecor has practitioners in my state so I am looking into that. I am just worried abotu the cost. I have insurance but I don't know if it will cover this.

I'm in my 20s with a 32 degree thoracic and 28 degree lumbar curve.

Thanks!

[Mom37]

Spinecor

My insurance covered the Spinecor brace out of network. I had to go out of the area, but may be different in the area. There are a few threads in here about Spinecor you should look at. Also there are some who have done Clear Institute also on the Spinecor thread.

[Pbbun21]

Thanks so much! I really want to do clear institute but I am not sure I can travel to Minnesota from New England! Doing research now to determine my method

[Sherie]

I'm taking my daughter for the Clear institute treatment in sept. with Dr. Woggon. He has trained many chiropractors in the therapy and if you call him, he will recommend one who may be close to you. My daughter is also using the Spinecor brace, but her curve is still progressing. She started out with 34T/45L and after 4 months in Spinecor, she is about 32T/52L and that is after one week out of the brace, so I feel that's an accurate reading. You may want to call the dr.s in Montreal and discuss your case with them since you are already an adult. I'm not sure it will help but I'm certainly not discouraging you to find out. It may bring you pain relief if nothing else if that is your primary complaint, it also does a lot to straighten out the posture. There are several others on the forum who are interested in the Clear inst. therapy and I will post the results after we get back.

[GHD1959]

Clear Institute

Is the Clear Institute for real? I have had terrible luck going to chiropractors, and when I recieve my Clear Institute emails, it just sounds to good to be true. They seem to have a specific plan to reduce the curve, but from all the readings on here, everyone seems to say reducing an adult curvature is impossible. They do include xrays on patients two years later with a straight spine. I know I would spend all the money in the world, to be out of pain and to have a straight spine, but is it really a possibility?

[chigirl]

I'm taking my daughter for the Clear institute treatment in sept. with Dr. Woggon. He has trained many chiropractors in the therapy and if you call him, he will recommend one who may be close to you. My daughter is also using the Spinecor brace, but her curve is still progressing. She started out with 34T/45L and after 4 months in Spinecor, she is about 32T/52L and that is after one week out of the brace, so I feel that's an accurate reading. You may want to call the dr.s in Montreal and discuss your case with them since you are already an adult. I'm not sure it will help but I'm certainly not discouraging you to find out. It may bring you pain relief if nothing else if that is your primary complaint, it also does a lot to straighten out the posture. There are several others on the forum who are interested in the Clear inst. therapy and I will post the results after we get back.

Can you update me on your daughter's time there? I am very interested in hearing about it.

[Sherie]

I have not been on the forum for awhile, so just now saw your post. We went and she did get some correction. Mainly in the head forward position, she has completely lost the natural curve in her neck and there was a definite improvement there. Her main curve is in the lumbar area, visually comparing before and after xrays, it's impossible to tell if there's any improvement but according to Dr. Woggons measurements, there's nearly a 20 deg improvement which I have to admit, I'm a bit skeptical about, I would think that would be noticeable.

The program is very intense for the week you're there, but it's the home therapy that is really difficult. If you're the type who likes to exercise and keeps up with workouts, no problem. She has been doing the therapy nearly everyday since we've been home, but not necessarily the entire routine. If your curve is greater than 40 deg. you'll need to purchase a traction chair which costs $2500 + tax. I think it is an important part of the therapy. There's also other equipment, but he will give that to you. There is about 15 minutes of exercises, 20 min. of weighting, 20 min. of spinal moulding (laying down) and 30 min of traction chair. As you see, that's quite a commitment to keep up on a daily basis, and according to Dr. Woggon, she'll need to do this for 4 years to get the best improvement.

If you can committ to this, then I think it's worth it, but if you're not going to keep up with the home therapy, I wouldn't waste the time or money. It is experimental too. There's no guarantee that any correction you achieve will be maintained without keeping up with the therapy forever. But I am willing to take this chance because her only option left is surgery. What I do know is that she was not adversely affected by this and there has been a definite improvement in her head forward position and possibly the thoracic curve. Hope this helps. Good luck to you whatever you decide.

Sherie

[Bish]

Hi Sherie

I would really like the opportunity to speak with you about the clear institute. I have been corresponding with Dr Woggon and I am due to see him in March 2007. I am particularly interested in your sceptisism regarding the Xray results. Did your daughter get pain relief? Did you talk to other people there who got pain relief? Did you see any evidence of serious curve reductions in previous patients? Like XRay evidence? If you would like to correspond privately you can email me at davebishoprealty@shaw.ca . I also wanted to discuss specific types of treatment methods they used. I am currently seeing a chiro in my area (B.C Canada) who has done some study with Dr.Woggon and I was curious as to wether or not his methods are the same. Your response would be appreciated. Maybe you can save me a few grand as well. Hahah! Hope all is well with your daughter. Dave (Bish)

[Sherie]

Dave I sent you an email

Hi Dave,

I sent you an email, but was in a rush so I didin't cover everything. My daughter is not in any significant pain. She will get backaches if we are out shopping for long periods so we avoid that, therefore, I can't really say if there is any benefit as far as pain reduction. I didn't read my previous post when I replied to you and assumed I had posted her results from the week of therapy. As I did say, the greatest improvement was in the cervical lordosis. It is clearly visible on the xray that there was some improvement, I can't remember the percentages. I could also visibly see improvement in the thoracic curve on the before and after. I believe the therapy may be more beneficial for a thoracic curve (if you've looked into Pneumex therapy, they also get better results in the thoracic curve). As I said in the email, I could not see any change in the lumbar which is her major curve, not to say there wasn't any, but I would think a 15-20 deg. correction would be visible. Dr. Woggon has a binder in his office of all the patients who have been through his program, on most of them you can see some improvement.

I am still hopeful that we can stabilise her curve with the therapy. I really wish there were a practitioner in our area that did the whole routine. I would be suprised if anyone did as much or had as much equipment as Dr. Woggon. I can't really tell you everything that he did, but if you're interested in more detail, let me know.

I do believe he is capable of getting some correction, what I don't know is if it is long term. I'm sure if you keep up with the therapy, whatever correction you get will hold. There's another guy on this forum (Christopher??) who said he also got about 20 deg correction and did his exercises religiously for awhile, but when he slacked off, his curve returned to what it was previously. My daughter is 14, therefore I hope her case is different and we can effect some long term changes, if not, then we've lost nothing in the process. By the way, we have met our deductible for insurance, so about 60% of the cost for the week was covered.

Anyway, I'll be happy to share more of our experience, let me know.
Sherie

[Celia]

Sherie,

I read this pubmed article a few days ago and it sounded interesting. I don't know too much about it and as you mentioned your daughter's lumbar curve I thought it might help since you're trying non-operative measures.



1: Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2006 Nov;87(11):1447-53. Links

The potential use of axial spinal unloading in the treatment of adolescent idiopathic scoliosis: a case series.Chromy CA, Carey MT, Balgaard KG, Iaizzo PA.

Physical Therapy Program, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To assess potential benefits of axial spinal unloading (LTX 3000 Lumbar Rehabilitation System) over a brief 3-month period. DESIGN: Before-after pilot study. SETTING: University research laboratory. PARTICIPANTS: Five adolescent girls with scoliosis. INTERVENTIONS: Three laboratory sessions: (1) initial baseline, (2) immediately after 3-month treatment period (axial unloading by using LTX 3000 for two 10-minute treatments daily), and (3) 1 month posttreatment. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Initial baseline postural data were obtained from 2 sets of radiographs (standing anteroposterior [AP] and lateral, sitting AP and lateral), back range of motion measurements, and numeric pain scales. The following were assessed: static postural changes; potential functional benefits; and therapeutic compliance. RESULTS: All subjects elicited reductions in lumbar Cobb angles immediately after 3 months of treatment; initial average scoliotic curves of 13.7 degrees were reduced 42% to 8 degrees (alpha = .05, P = .004). Additionally, such reductions were evident 1 month posttreatment; average original curves were reduced by 27%. Subjects' range of motion and lumbar lengthening were not significantly altered by this therapeutic protocol. Reported subject compliance was high (95%). CONCLUSIONS: The LTX 3000 is a potential adjunct therapy for the treatment of adolescent scoliosis. This therapy resulted in curvature reductions and was widely accepted by subjects that were compliant with self-administration

[gerbo]

axial unloading, would that be the same as traction? I always wondered whether a inversion chair would be of some benefit in this context.

still, note that study contains only 5 subjects, and starting curves are average 13.7 (hardly scoliotic) Initial benefit (which would be within margin of measuring error I think) is nearly halved 1 month following cessation of treatment. So I wonder whether this is likely to be a temporary effect.

so, although i could see some logic in a regular treatment similar to traction, this article would not convince me

[Celia]

I found this on the web and it doesn't look like there is any exercise involved LOL!!!!!!! As with other exercise programs, I would imagine that the curve would revert back to pretreatment levels for adults however this may not be the case with young children.




http://www.burtonreport.com/InfSpine...dUnloadDev.htm

[Sherie]

Thank you Celia,

I'm always on the lookout for anything new. I glanced at it
at work today but will look at it more closely this evening.

Sherie

[structural75]

Hi Folks,

The study definitely shows initial significant improvements, given the time frame (42%). Despite the small number of participants, it still appears to make a vailid contribution to non-surgical options. It also seems to mirror the effect of other treatments, such as similar traction devices that Gerbo had mentioned. (Funny, many of these devices work by reversing the compresional loading forces of gravity. So when treatment ends, and gravity resumes its downward force against the reduced but still present curves, it makes sense that it would likely return.) These are mechanical approaches after all, and it seems readily appearent that the body does not respond well in the long run when it's treated as if it were a machine. The exercises often associated with these treatments are meant to engage the persons nervous system to re-establish proper proprioceptive capacities.

In the case of non-surgical approaches there seems to be one common repetitive theme... many seem to show regression when treatment ends. But I wonder, is this the result of failure on the part of the method used, or are they successful at correction but unsuccessful at addressing the cause of progression (whatever that might be... the possibilities are obviously endless.) If the actual cause, or at least some of the cause, is not being addressed, then surely the curvature will likely progress again. I know this may all sound rather redundant to mention, but these methods do show the potential for improvements, which is promising.

Surgical approaches work primarily due to the permanent fixation of bones and rods. However, they still don't address the cause either, nor do they require the persons nervous system to change because the rods/fusion do all of the work to support them.. So it seems it might be well worth while to spark further inquiry into causative factors and how that plays into mechanically based corrective approaches.

I think in the case of any non-surgical approach we have to realize that there will never be that inert object present to continue holding the spine upright (as rods/fusion does). So it isn't necessarily a failure of the tractioning, axial unloading, etc., but a failure to uderstand the mechanisms that will allow the spine to remain in the corrected state (the nervous system maybe?).

I do believe that if we are to seek non-surgical approaches we have to expect there will be additional work and effort on our part to retain the effects. In fact, with enough diligence those participants in the study with minor curvatures might possibly be able to correct their curves enough, relative to the vertical axis of growth, that further maintenence could be minimal. And I don't think that it's fair to say 13.7 degrees is hardly scoliotic (should we wait until they become 'severely scoliotic' and then perform a study?) It shows adaptive capacities, which is one of the most important aspects of any treatment... almost all ideopathic scoliotic curves begin at roughly 0 degrees. It's the curvatures that cannot be kept in check by the body's systems that become problematic and labeled as scoliosis, but it's just a positional reference term, not a disease, as we know.

I thought a fresh perspective might help lend some clarity to why many of these treatments have been labeled unsuccessful.

Kind Regards,
Structural75

[krazytyler]

Is the Clear Institute for real? I have had terrible luck going to chiropractors, and when I recieve my Clear Institute emails, it just sounds to good to be true. They seem to have a specific plan to reduce the curve, but from all the readings on here, everyone seems to say reducing an adult curvature is impossible. They do include xrays on patients two years later with a straight spine. I know I would spend all the money in the world, to be out of pain and to have a straight spine, but is it really a possibility?

my T curve has reduced 10 degrees and my L 2 degrees so far, my posture is a lot better, and im not in nearly as much pain.

my insurance paid 80% of it and my grandparents were happy to try anything other than surgery 1st so they paid for it.

i would recommend at least trying it, it all depends on the type of curve you have for results though. my curve is like ideal for what the brace offers.