Explore your options!! Read my story!

[denverbackchic]

I know you are all on these pages looking for the answers and people to lean on...boy have I been there! And my story is not meant to scare people who have had the sugery...just to inform those who are considering it. If I reach one of you pre-op...I know you will thank me as a random stranger someday...and perhaps feel this post was divine intervention.
I am 28..and I too was a 14 year old girl with a 48 degree curve who doctors could not wait to operate on. my mom wouldn't let them near me as she says "unless I was near dead"...words cannot say what I now owe my mom for that desicion. I thank her weekly. Later on in life at 25 I met my boyfriend John. He is a chiropractor and I was seeing him for nothing more than pain relief. That is all I thought that chiropractors did at the time. little did I know. that is until he made it his mission to help me fix the back I have been plagued with for so long. He introduced me to a few doctors in MN who have made it their life's work to correct scoliosis non-surgically. When I saw what these docs did my jaw hit the ground!! The curve reduction and curve CORRECTION before and after xrays where amazing! I started crying at the thought of being free from this. NO ONE TOLD ME THIS WAS POSSIBLE W/OUT A ROD!! And I am happy to say I am well on my way. At 28...when "they say" you are too old to be corrected I have a cervical curve back in my neck and I have already improved 6 degrees in my back in a VERY short time! and the treatments were comfortable and pain free. After treatment they think I can get in the high teens/lows 20's which guess what? That is about all the harrington rod could have done for me! Only no knives, no anethesia, no painful worries like I see on this page. If you are a teenager, your results will be way better than mine b/c your wonderful body, this challenge that God has given you, still has time to heal and grow.
Hey, if it doesn't work you can always go the other route...I hear people all the time say they are scared of chiropractors...scared of chiropractors but okay with surgery? Makes no sense. I am on to a life of better health, free from the long-term pain and complications of surgery. Please feel free to email me if you want some of the websites I know of. I am also open to chat with any young girls going through this. I wore a brace for 2.5 years and know high school is tough on your right now with that thing. Keep the faith. God gave you his b/c you were meant to be stronger than the rest! And guess what...this year I am proud to say I am competing in the Ironman Triathlon...so don't EVER let them tell you scoliosis is a handicap...you are stronger because you have to be right? You will get throught this no matter your choice in care. I promise. Yours in health, Katie

[katblack]

What were your starting curves?
What are your end curves?
What methods did they use?
Can you give us more information?

Thank you.

[nikyergen]

Who said they were afraid of Chiropractors. Some of us use them still today, but not for scoliosis. Oh well, we had surgery and are doing wonderfully. Have a great day, thanks for sharing.

[lin515]

Im glad you had so much success from chiropractic treatment. I tried it with my then 10 year old daughter along with rigorous physical therapy for over a year. She is scheduled for surgery 2/22/06. It just didnt work for us. I wish it had.

[Karen Ocker]

for denverbackchick

"Love is blind but the neighbors ain't"

Six degrees isn't really proof of correction. No place in medical literature has CHIROPRACTIC been PROVEN to PERMANENTLY CORRECT scoliosis for any length of time.

Believe me - we all would jump at such a simple solution. Many of us have walked a long painful walk trying ANY alternative to avoid surgery. We're not stupid.

Your posting is full of hope. I do not think it is proof YET of a different solution. It would be more "proof" if you had FINISHED the treatment--say two years ago--showed -say a correction of 20-30 degreess that was permanent.

Before that time please do not give false hope to the desperate.

Another thing: If indeed these chiropractors REALLY found the solution they would have published it in reputable medical journals involving 100s of patients around the world. Also, unless something has been proven, it needs to listed as "experimental". If other doctors around the world can REPLICATE the results in OTHER patients then a treatment can be said to be useful.

Frankly, I am fed up with various chiropractic practices advertising they have found the answer to scoliosis with something NEW. None of them meet the scientific criteria. Just a lot of hype and slick advertising aimed at the desperate and gullible.

Karen

[nikyergen]

I know the last thing our daughters doctor wanted to do was surgery. He doesn't like to have to do such major surgeries on children, just sometimes it is the only option when you have a lot of pain that the chiropractor hadn't been able to releave. Since surgery, the pain is gone. The chiropractors were never able to achieve that level of comfort. Thank you Karen for speaking how most of us feel.

[denverbackchic]

you are so blind...do not make ignorant statements unless you are informed

I really wish you only knew what I knew. In NO WAY did I say that 6 degrees is correction. And any and all chiropractors can't do this. I am NOT, I REPEAT NOT corrected yet, as I have just started treatment. talk to me in a month. But i have seen it work firsthand so you are lying to me or simply uneduacated if you think it CAN'T and won't for everyone. The love of my life is one of the best chiros I know and even HE CAN'T DO THIS!...why? b/c it is HARD!! VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY HARD!!! but so is surgery. the doc I see has dedicated his very existance to scoliosis.

I am sorry your experience was not positive...and if all chiros said they could do this then yes, they would be lying. But how about this- 20 degrees now UNDER 10 degrees. A 55 y/o woman at 40 degree now in the mid 20's. 105 degrees down to 80 degrees. 45 degrees in the teens. 20 degrees- ZERO DEGREES...ALL DONE BY CHIROPRACTIC MY FRIEND!!! now you make me say what I didn't want to say...15 y/o girl I know...got surgery 1 year ago..paralyzed by a minor fender bender b/c her SPINE WON'T FLEX ANYMORE!!!! if that does not scare you into at least reading about alternatives I don't know what will. How about this- 40% of harrington rod patients are legally classified as handicapped after the surgery. I did not pull that out of my head. You blame me for "giving false hope"...but I tend to believe that telling someone that surgery is 100% effective, and all chiropractic is ineffective is false hope too. Only my hope will not cost you a hospital stay so WHY NOT AT LEAST TRY! Education is free, and all of us with scoliosis know that. I have nothing to gain here...I make $0 by you choosing chiropractic....but I also know that I have lived my life with a curve in he high 40's PAIN FREE. So what is the harm in me sharing? Why attack me? I know your frustration...and I am not trying to be mean. I pray that you find an answer that works for YOU...and if what worked for ME, does not work for YOU then just don't answer my posts. You may be "tired of chiropractors promising hope"...but guess what? I am not a chiropractor. I am a scoliosis patient who has physically been in the same room with girls who are so corrected they are no longer considered scoliosis cases.

To the gal that asked me for more info go to www.clear-institute.com or email me at katie_oconnell77@yahoo.com and I will give you my phone number if you just want to chat. I am in no way affilicated with this clinic. It is in minnesota. the doc is wonderful and he will let you know the truth if he thinks he can help you, because as the lady who tried chiropractic and failed knows...it is not for everyone. Surgery may be the route you need...and there ARE people who have done it with success! There are some reading this right now and how awesome for them! Any treatment that WORKS should be considered...and unlike the post I strongly responded to, I am not telling you which is right for you. If she does not think 6 degrees is a correction...you should have seen my tears of joy when after years of this i saw that 6 degrees for the first time! It is only the begining for me...and it was like a gift from God to see it already working. I support any and all of you on this page b/c after all we are in this together...and we can't expect docs to educate us 100%...sometimes we need to help inform each other. If 1 person tries my idea and has success wouldn't you consider it worth it? best of luck to all no matter YOUR choice in care.

[denverbackchic]

also Karen...if you want studies...just email me and I will send 'em!!!!!!!!!

[nikyergen]

Oh no, not another one. This one is just as rude as the last one. Why do they have to be absolutely right. Life is to short for this garbage. If you can't write without being so rude, don't write at all. We have all found our own answers and have done what is right for us, so please don't push that what is right for you is what the rest want. We aren't here to debate with you, we are just sharing with you our experiences with the various Chiropractic techniques that haven't worked in our cases, and you will see more that haven't help than have helped if you search these forums. So, people are very skeptical. Do what is right for you, but don't get upset when others don't believe in it.

[Karen Ocker]

For: denverbackchick-

also Karen...if you want studies...just email me and I will send 'em!!!!!!!!!

I am a medical professional who has training in research. I HAVE read just about everything published on this and I UNDERSTAND all the lingo.
I have found absolutley NOTHING, written by a CHIROPRACTOR, which proves, demonstrates, that scoliosis in an adult can be PERMANENTLY corrected by any chiropractic technique including all the various machines advertised. I have previously investigated the Clear-Institute web site and checked out their links-some of which did not work this morning-and I am still think it's offering false hope. There ARE a lot of articles WRITTEN by CHIROPRACTORS in journals. I READ THEM. They talk a lot about measurments
and people with neck injuries. NOTHING in them show PERMANENT, MEANING LONG TERM, CORRECTION, of SCOLIOSIS IN ADULTS.

This was taken from one of the references on the site: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/5/32

""Conclusions

Within the design limitations of the present study, the combined use of manipulative and neuromuscular rehabilitation seemed to reduce scoliotic curvatures in 19 subjects by an average of 17°. This reduction took place within a 4 to 6-week period. Although this treatment was not tested over the long term, the magnitude of the present results warrants further studies into its effectiveness. This treatment should also be tested on specific types of scoliosis in follow-up trials. A long-term investigation of this protocol is desirable."

This publication talks about a small number of patients--19 and the study has design flaws.

The treatment you promote is EXPERIMENTAL. There has always been short-term improvements from these things. It's PERMANENT correction we are after.

Is surgery drastic- of coarse. Did it help me? Yes, I got my life back. I AM TOTALLY PAIN FREE and WORKING. Other than early bracing, which doesn't always work, it is the only thing which permanently reduces curves. My original operation in 1956 did not have hardware and I DID lose that correction 40+ years later. After my revision, with hardware, 3 years ago my correction had been maintained with NO loss of correction.

About chiropractic causing strokes: This has been demonstrated in the literature. I myself had such a patient. That patient could never swallow again after a chiropractor did the twisting neck maneuver we are all so familiar with.This occurs when a piece of arteriosclerotic plaque, in a neck artery(carotid) gets loosened when a chiro twists the neck. In my own family: My son's father-in-law went to a chiro(didn't ask me first)for back ache, had his neck manipulated and ended up with such a headache afterward that they did a brain CAT scan to rule out stroke.

Come back in 3 years with your permanent correction and then share your experiences.

Respectfully, Karen

[mariaf]

Well said, Karen. I, too, will stick with the advice of established, recognized and respected docs like Dr. Boachie, Dr. Betz, Dr. D'Andrea, etc. By the way, Dr. Betz (like all the Shriners docs) receives a flat salary. He doesn't make a penny more if he performs one surgery a month or twenty. Neither he, nor any of us parents, are pleased or happy with the decision to perform surgery on a child. The fact is sometimes there is just no other alternative.

[katblack]

Did anyone catch the requirements for being treated by the clear institute?
I don't understand this? What's with purchasing DVDS and going to seminars first? Why do patients have to buy stuff?????
I clicked the link, http://clear-institute.com/docs/CLEARDCList.pdf to find a practitioner in my area and this is what comes up when you click it and then a list of practitioners.
Rating:
1: INITIATE *
Recommended for: Scoliosis Consultation ONLY, not treatment.
Requirements: Attended seminar at least once or purchased DVD.
2: BASIC **
Recommended for: Consultation & Follow-Up Treatment ONLY. Patients
should initiate treatment with a higher-level D.C. Not recommended for patients
with Cobb angles over 30 degrees.
Requirements: Vibe and/or VT; Attended seminar/workshop once or purchased
DVD.
3: STANDARD ***
Recommended for: Consultation, Initial Treatment, & Follow-Up Treatment for
Cobb angles 30 degrees and under. Recommended for Consultation & Follow-Up
Treatment ONLY for Cobb angles over 30 degrees.
Requirements: Vibe and/or VT; Attended seminar/workshop at least once in last
year.
4: ADVANCED ****
Recommended for: Consultation, Initial Treatment, & Follow-Up Treatment.
Requirements: Scoliosis Traction Chair; Vibe and/or VT; Attended
seminar/workshop at least twice in last year. Must be in communication with
CLEAR Board of Directors.
5: ELITE *****
Certified by CLEAR; Highly Recommended for all phases of treatment.
Requirements: Scoliosis Traction Chair, Vibe and VT; Attended
seminar/workshop at least twice in last year; submitted one or more case studies
to CLEAR for review within last year.

[denverbackchic]

au revoir to the hopeless

This is my last post, then this whole site can rejoice b/c they effectively booted out yet another person who still holds hope that this can be fixed without causing permanant damage...yes damage to the spine. I have a happy, healthy, wonderful life WITH scoliosis. I could really care less if I improve 1 degree from doc Woggon. But I will tell you right now, that if you have such a medical background you would believe in miracles, give kids hope, and not crush a gal who has the SAME DISEASE as all of you just because you don't believe her when she says chiro HAS WORKED. You can rummage up every study you want Karen. But I ask you...where is the medical PROOF or written STUDY that God exists? There are not any, but having him in my life each and every day...I see it, feel, it and know he is there. Doc Woggon does not have the deep pockets of the medical profession to have mass marketing like the med world. especially since what he does is still pretty new and he is on his own. Yet each and every day he has little kids fly in from LONDON, PARIS around the world to be treated by him and I have seen the actual results with my own 2 eyes. As for you katblack...I have not purchased a thing from them and I am being treated so I have no clue what you mean by "required"...but I ask, why is it a bad thing that he offers patient education online??? You don't bat an eyelash at surgery and that is 40 grand!

Bottom line folks, you claim to be a support site, but I hope you look in the mirror tonight and are ashamed of yourself for not supporting or even listening to one of your own b/c she strayed from your norm in her suggestion of care. I cannot repeat myself enough that I said I was for ANYTHING THAT WORKS multiple times on this site, but obviously you are not. That scoliosiscutie's story makes me sick to my stomach. Her mom is giving chiro a whirl and some irresponsible adult strangers online are telling her to go under the knife never having met her. why not let her have a fair shot at chiro, then invite her mom online and chat about surgery. How do you even know she is going to a chiro that knows this stuff? Cuz it sounds to me like she may not be. I even wished you luck on your surgery katblack...thanks for not wishing me the same as I told you my treatment is next month and I too am nervous. support is the last thing you on here provide. As for 'not backing down"...when have you ever told someone on here who said "i got surgery, and it went great! You should do it too!"...to back down? after all that is the only thing I said..."I had chiro treatment and it worked, I have seen it work, I believe it works, and I will live a long healthy life b/c of it. you may want to try too" Heck if I will let you shame me because of that.

I have learned 1 thing on here. There may be many treatments for scoliosis...but there is not 1 cure for ignorance. you may have a thousand degrees Karen, but that does not make you smart. My boyfriend has been to just as much school as you and he is a chiro- 8 years in school, 2 years internship, 6X the continung ed required to practice each year. But somehow you treat his profession like it is a GED. How good does that make you feel? About 2 inches tall I'd say. The thing I carry with me since I woke up today is who cares...why care about small minds where there are so many children out there that need help. I choose to live scoliosis treatment, not argue it.

So I my time here is done. I am off to live my life pain free and healthy. to those of you who emailed me i appreciate your feedback...find a healthy site and a happier passtime..whether you have surgery or not there are better people to support you online who have good intentions and your actual best interest in mind. we all know misery loves company, and sure found it here. This is not good nor is it productive for me so I say au revoir and wish you good health.

[nikyergen]

I am glad that you have a happy and pain free life. So does my daughter and has had since the day after her surgery. Go on with life like the rest of us and don't dwell on this issue. That isn't healthy for you either. I am sure there are lots of people that will try chiro. It may work for some, and it may not work for some. Good luck on your treatments and I hope you don't have to have a lifetime of treatments, as that gets costly and time consuming. I am sorry you don't care if you get one degree of correction, as that is the goal for most people on this forum. Good Luck to you and your chiropractor boyfriend. I am sure you will find success.

[katblack]

I am glad that you have a happy and pain free life. So does my daughter and has had since the day after her surgery. Go on with life like the rest of us and don't dwell on this issue. That isn't healthy for you either. I am sure there are lots of people that will try chiro. It may work for some, and it may not work for some. Good luck on your treatments and I hope you don't have to have a lifetime of treatments, as that gets costly and time consuming. I am sorry you don't care if you get one degree of correction, as that is the goal for most people on this forum. Good Luck to you and your chiropractor boyfriend. I am sure you will find success.

Exactly.

Best wishes to you. Come back when you have permanent correction of more than 1 degree. I'm sure then we'd all be more interested in hearing your success story.