Degenerate disc and scoliosis connected?

[WHEELSOFLIFE]

Hi

I am new here and can't seem to find my way around!...

I have such a need to find advise and help please.

I have lived with bad pain since 2002.. and life as become the pits.

I have three degenerative disc - one at top and two at bottom..

It has got so bad I have been in a wheelchair for the past 12 months.. I am awaiting trial for a new disc replacement here in uk.

I was promised I would have them asap.. now told that due to having harrington rods in back I am unable to be part of the trials and have to wait 1 -2 years when medical trial results are in.. only if good can they help me..

I can't live like this.. I have two children and a husband that are the best and they do all to help.. I need a good night sleep..

It's a killer to sit and type this but I need to find some answers and to find out if anyone else is like this or it is just me!

I have been told that the disc degeneration is nothing to do with RODS OR SCOLIOSIS! - what do you think?

That you for taking the time and reading my post...

Kind Regards

sad Uk Lady age 30 - scoliosis correction 1990 (15 years ago)

[LindaRacine]

Hi Sad UK Lady...

I'm sorry to hear that you're in so much pain.

Degeneration of discs is relatively common in scoliosis, and very common in people with long fusions. Here are some links to study abstracts:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16193361&query_hl=2
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11259948&query_hl=4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9854753&query_hl=4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1621151&query_hl=4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=6527158&query_hl=4

Best of luck finding a solution to your pain.

Regards,
Linda

[sins]

Replacement discs are commonly done in the UK now.QMC in Nottingham have been doing them for some time and Medway maritime in Kent.
I hope they find you suitable for the procedure and that you can find a solution to your pain.You are very young to have to deal with this,
Sins

[expatient]

But ofcourse they are connected. Si-joint dislocation causes scoliosis. With scoliosis comes disc problems, prolapses and other spine problems.. but when the SiJD is corrected, scoliosis disappears...

[Cakedec]

Dear expatient:

Can you get us a testimony of an actual person whose scoliosis has truly disappeared from having their SI joint dislocation corrected?

[Karen Ocker]

Could you please give us the scholarly, peer-reviewed references to the information you are posting here? We want to see the scientific proof so that the whole medical world can benefit.

A testimony is not helpful without before and after x-rays of many patients all over the world.
Thanks

[expatient]

I don't have such a material yet. I am trying to find a doctor to work with this. But they don't care or believe. And most important reason is, they don't have the money to start doing research. But I have done it already. I have collected (almost) all the information fom WWW about this.

I am working with Finland Low Back Pain Association to look for doctors who know about this. This work has only just begun. But it is voluntary work, like a hobby to me. I have other jobs to get the money for living... That is why I don't have the time or resources to work on this very much.

But you should ask mr. Richard DonTigny. He has written a lot about it.

"I have seen SIJD in children as young as 8 while doing scoliosis training. I remember one young boy who had a leg length difference, (long leg right) and a lumbar scoliosis. I did a simple corrective mobilization on that side, the leg length shortened, the pelvic obliquity was corrected and the lumbar scoliosis disappeared all within about ten minutes." http://www.kalindra.com/faq.htm

Here is his CV: http://www.kalindra.com/vitae.htm

So far I have only witnessed 20 pain patients (including me) and we were all cured, got mail from 15 patients, and documents from 250 patients. And about 10 phone numbers of patients from last year. And there are a lot more cured pain patients... and ofcourse learned myself how to put SI back to its place...

[LindaRacine]

Expatient...

Until there is some actual proof, I'd like to ask that you not post comments that imply that there is. We try to keep this site as reliable as possible, and while your hypothesis may turn out to be correct, it's still just a hypothesis at this point.

Thanks for understanding.

--Linda

[LimaMom]

Hi - I am home recovering from resection surgery that I had on October 18 at Rochester Strong Memorial Hospital, in Rochester, New York, USA. Yes, herniated discs are related to scoliosis. I herniated 2 discs directly below my Harrington rod about 10 years ago. I just let it recover, but then in 2000 all the discs (including the herniated ones) collapsed and I had emergency fusion, which never really healed due to the weight/pressure of the Harrington rod and bone mass above the fusion. I had my Harrington rod put in in 1964. I lived a very active life, had 3 kids, etc. I was told by my doctor that nowadays they "expect" to see herniated discs on harrington rod patients.

At my surgery last month my doctor removed the harrington rod, refused my fusion from 2000 with bone from original surgery, and installed 2 rods, 12 screws, 1 stabilizing bar and 2 cages. Plus I also had flat back and he created an arch in my back. It was a 10 hr surgery. I am now about 6 weeks into recovery and am getting stronger every day. But who knows what the future will hold. I am taking it real easy as I do not want to ever have back surgery again!!!!! I expect to be out of work until end of January, but know that it will take a full year at least to regain my physical stamina.

I was in constant daily pain for years with lots of nerve pain in left leg and foot. I don't know if the nerves/muscles will come back 100%, but I couldn't live with it anymore so I went for it!!!

Good luck! Limamom

[sweetness514]

I don't have such a material yet. I am trying to find a doctor to work with this. But they don't care or believe. And most important reason is, they don't have the money to start doing research. But I have done it already. I have collected (almost) all the information fom WWW about this.

I am working with Finland Low Back Pain Association to look for doctors who know about this. This work has only just begun. But it is voluntary work, like a hobby to me. I have other jobs to get the money for living... That is why I don't have the time or resources to work on this very much.

But you should ask mr. Richard DonTigny. He has written a lot about it.

"I have seen SIJD in children as young as 8 while doing scoliosis training. I remember one young boy who had a leg length difference, (long leg right) and a lumbar scoliosis. I did a simple corrective mobilization on that side, the leg length shortened, the pelvic obliquity was corrected and the lumbar scoliosis disappeared all within about ten minutes." http://www.kalindra.com/faq.htm

Here is his CV: http://www.kalindra.com/vitae.htm

So far I have only witnessed 20 pain patients (including me) and we were all cured, got mail from 15 patients, and documents from 250 patients. And about 10 phone numbers of patients from last year. And there are a lot more cured pain patients... and ofcourse learned myself how to put SI back to its place...

If this is true, I wonder if anybody in North america knows about it. I believe that only by trying new things can we advance and evolve. it sure is interesting, to say the least.

[expatient]

So far I have patients' stories and their x-rays before they were cured. But I am working. It takes time, but proof you shall have... one cured patient is by the way from U.S. She flew here just to see this healer...

You can ask these doctors, if you know how to contact them. I don't have their email.
Richard DonTigny, PT http://www.kalindra.com/vitae.htm
Joseph L. Shaw, MD http://www.kalindra.com/ShawSIJ.pdf
Dr. Poesnecker, MD http://www.healing.org/only-3.html
I think I tried to contact Dr. Poesnecker. His secretary told that they have no documentation of research to give me...
Independence Back Institution http://www.independenceback.com/causes.htm
They did not reply to me.

Or ask from US Osteopath Academy. They have a study on 1100 patients with low back pain (diagnosed scholiosis, prolapsy and "herniated disc"??). 72% was because of SIJD. After getting SIJD they all had these symptoms within 1-2 years...

and
Or how about some scientists from these links to studies: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/faro/Selkasivut/Linkkeja.html

[Karen Ocker]

I checked for Dr. Shaw's publications in the National Library of Medicine and found absolutely nothing which probably means nothing he has written has enough proof for the medical community. I also found nothing there for Dr. Poesnecker. He was trained as a chiropractor; I see nothing in his credentials to make him an expert in scoliosis.

I also looked at those photos. As a medical professional I was not convinced and actually thought they looked ridiculous and very old fashioned.

Here is a scientific study on cadavers demonstrating that there is no such thing as "subluxation". It's rather long but proves the point.

http://www.chirobase.org/02Research/crelin.html

[expatient]

Here is a scientific study on cadavers demonstrating that there is no such thing as "subluxation". It's rather long but proves the point.
There are many links of subluxations. I have collected them there: http://personal.inet.fi/koti/faro/Selkasivut/Linkkeja.html
If you check links from there, you can find about 120-130 links to research documents of SIJD and subluxations. And more is coming every day as I find them... And many of them are in PubMed.

There woud be much more of them, if documents published in Spine and Lancet were free to view, but they are not...

[expatient]

Dear expatient:

Can you get us a testimony of an actual person whose scoliosis has truly disappeared from having their SI joint dislocation corrected?
Scholiosis is very hard to diagnose. I have seen 20-30 doctors, and about 5-7 of them told me that I had mild scoliosis. Now one of those doctors, who diagnosed it before, said I don't have it anymore. It is not a good proof. I am not a good example. I need to find someone who is...

But my pain is gone. I am half of an inch taller with much better posture. No headache...

[rainie]

Limamum, just had to say good on you. I have my op in 1966 and thought I may have been one of the first with the Harrington rods etc, but you have beaten me. I cannot have what you have had done. As living in Australia I honestly dont think that there is anyone here that does revision surgery. My pain started in 1997 and you know what I am going through, so I will say no more.

I am really thrilled for you and hope with all my heart that every thing turns out just fine. I feel so proud of you, silly, some might say, but I think us oldies that have had the rods in for such a long time have some kind of link.

With kind regards
Lorraine.

[rainie]

Expatient I am sorry but I do not believe that a simple corrective mobilisation could have corrected an 85 degree curve, a body that was twisted so far to the right that my right ribs were so far over to my right side they were almost around behind my back, and well the inside of my body would have had to been seen to be believed.

This may work on scoliosis very very slightly advanced like under 10 degrees, but I am sorry I cant believe that it would have worked on me. I am glad it worked on you though.

Just my opinion thats all
regards
Rainie.

[expatient]

Dear expatient:

Can you get us a testimony of an actual person whose scoliosis has truly disappeared from having their SI joint dislocation corrected?
If you check scoliosis with this test, it will be very easy to prove... but is it enough fo you?
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/faro/Selkasivut//Kuvat/Scotest.gif

[Gigi060]

Every doc I have talked to says that ddd is inecitable in fusion surgerys. The Vertebrae above and below the fusion start to take on all the movement and weight of the fused bones. The constant pressure on them does cause discs to crumble. What I want to know is does it also cause osteoporosus too? Just found out I also have that on top of all the other problems I am having. But the Lupus test came back negative. Yeah!

Georgian

[wheels]

Hello Everyone :confused:

I've changed user name because I changed internet supplier and forgot old password!!

I'm no further on since the last time I posted.. infact I'm worse.. I've had three hospital stays in the past 5 months each time for two weeks.. due to pain crisis.. or that's what they are calling it.

I collapsed at home and lost the feeling in the left side of my body.. and to make it worse.. the hospital staff where to busy to get me out of bed for 10 days so I had a dropped foot to go home with..

I was sick during the whole months of May,June,July. When I say it was upto 7 times aday.. hospital doctors didn't have a clue..

My own gp was my "God" he worked it .. it was the fentalyn patches I was on.. I had lost 3 stone and couldn't eat.. I only started eating proper food again two weeks ago..

I was ment to have a hospital appointment to see the spine specialist this wednesday and today I received a letter cancelling it because the surgery was too busy to fit me in.. i've had the appointment for 12 months and they cancel it two days before I go..

I'm desperate for help.. Noone (hospital doctors) are hearing me..

My gp is the only one.. but obviously his help is limited.

I don't know what the answer is but I just can't live with the pain.. I just can't get use to it even after all this time.

take care all
x

[triedit]

Im both glad and horrified to find this forum. I was diagnosed with "moderate degenerative disc disease" a year ago. Im now 45. While uncommon at my age, the doctors didnt think it was too odd that I have this. Ive also been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and sleep apnea. But frankly Im wondering if it isnt all tied into my harrington rods.

I have two fusions. They did my lower back first (1972 I think, Children's Hospital in Columbus, OH) and my upper back two? years later at Children's Hospital in Knoxville, TN. My doctor was the same for both surgeries, although he's probably long dead by now.

Im in chronic pain. I take oxcontin every day, along with a variety of other meds for migraine, depression, and anxiety. I have something to help me sleep that I use on occasion and a CPAP machine for the apnea. I feel old and worn out most of the time. Once in awhile I have a good day, but this is not one of those days. Ive taken my oxycontin and two percocets--years ago that would have made me sleep--now it just takes the edge off the pain.

If I had know it would be like this Im not sure I would have had the surgery.

[LindaRacine]

Hi Triedit...

Your problem may (or may not) be flatback. You may want to check out this forum:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Flatback_Revised/

Regards,
Linda

[triedit]

Thanks Linda--it certainly sounds like me! Will talk with my doctor about this. Im up for surgery--ANYTHING that will relieve this pain.