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MaryH
08-18-2005, 10:18 AM
Well, my daughters ortho appointment yesterday was really frustrating....
I didn't get any of my questions answered, but the good thing is we have an appointment to see a ped. ortho in Tennessee on Monday.

Is anyone familiar with Campbell Clinic? So far, I've only heard good things!

The dr. we saw yesterday was concerned because dd has back pain. He said she shouldn't have pain with scoliosis. And since she does we need to find out what caused the scoliosis. When I asked what could have caused it his reply was "I don't want to scare you" so, of course, now I'm scared! He said it could be a number of things, one being a cyst of the spine. He said she needs an MRI but since he is referring her to another dr. he will let them do that. Anyway, now it's back to the waiting.....

Any opinions on back pain with scoliosis?

Thanks,
Mary

gerbo
08-18-2005, 10:54 AM
seems logical that scoliosis could cause back pain as there is a asymmetrical strain on the muscles on either side. My daughter had some aching of the muscles before she went into her brace

An mri is routine investigation to exclude any specific cause for the scoliosis, but stuctural problems, as far as i know are rare.

Amazing how little "throwaway remarks" from doctors can make you nervous, isn't it

gerbo

orthotist
08-18-2005, 12:38 PM
just commenting on back pain with scoliosis. Hear that all the time -"shouldn't have pain with scoliosis", but my patients report it, whether it be achy or fatigue, it is not that uncommon.

LindaRacine
08-18-2005, 01:16 PM
Hi...

Since there are many people who report no pain with their scoliosis, I think doctors believe that it's not the scoliosis itself that causes pain. (In other words, they think that if scoliosis caused pain, everyone with scoliosis would have pain.) There are all sorts of things that happen with scoliosis that have the potential to cause pain. Although I didn't have x-rays of my spine done until I was in my 30's, doctors believe I had scoliosis since I was an adolescent. Yet, I didn't start having pain until my 30's. Also, I know several people with very large curves (over 100 degrees), who claim not to have any pain.

On that same subject, Dr. John Sarno, who is a New York spine surgeon, has written books on back pain. He thinks that much of it is in our heads. I believe that that's often true. If we have back pain, we tend to tighten certain muscles to avoid that pain. When we continue to tighten muscles, the strain can cause back pain. So, sometimes, even when we don't have pain from a specific problem, we expect pain, so we tighten muscles, and we end up in pain. His theories are based on real research that showed that many people with chronic back pain have totally normal MRIs. Yet, many people with no back pain have all sorts of disc problems.

Regards,
Linda

gerbo
08-18-2005, 03:59 PM
There are all sorts of things that happen with scoliosis that have the potential to cause pain.

Which really is the same as saying "the scoliosis is causing the pain", this is the same as an inflamed appendix, which isn't too painfull, but wait till it starts irritating the overlying abdominal wall, then it really becomes painfull, still, to all intends and purposes, we all say it is the appendicitis which causes the pain

I believe that that's often true. If we have back pain, we tend to tighten certain muscles to avoid that pain. When we continue to tighten muscles, the strain can cause back pain. So, sometimes, even when we don't have pain from a specific problem, we expect pain, so we tighten muscles, and we end up in pain. His theories are based on real research that showed that many people with chronic back pain have totally normal MRIs. Yet, many people with no back pain have all sorts of disc problems.

Very dodgy theory I am afraid to say. The spasm you quote is usually involuntary and a natural, but unfortunately counterproductive, reaction of the body to protect the painfull part of the body. The pain it causes is very real and makes grown man, (of known mental stability) cry

Doctors have the tendency sometimes to say "if I cannot see the cause of the pain, or haven't got a test which shows there is a abnormality; there is no abnormality, and hide their own inability to deal with the problem by blaming the patient; "sorry, it is all in your head" (because ofcourse the all knowing and allpowerfall doctor (second in command only to god) would have found an illness/problem if there was one)

offcourse, all this doesn't mean that there isn't a psychological element to pain and painmanagement, but that is not the same as saying "it is all in your head"
hope you do not mind being critisised abit, usually I find your comments to be spot on, surely you didn't mean it as bad as it sounds (to me) ;) ;) ;)

gerbo :)

LindaRacine
08-18-2005, 04:09 PM
Actually, I was just trying to explain why most scoliosis specialists will tell you that scoliosis does not cause pain.

So, for people who have scoliosis and no pain, I guess there's something wrong with them. ;-)

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Still, you might try reading some of Dr. Sarno's works.

--Linda

KRIS ATKINSON
08-18-2005, 05:46 PM
Mary, my daughter went through the same thing as you are encountering. "Scoliosis does not cause back pain" was what we constantly heard. We also got the MRI to disprove anything possibly causing the back pain in addition to scoliosis. Nothing was found in the MRI. It makes sense that if the spine is leaning where it shouldn't be, some of the muscles or whatever are being aggravated and therefore could cause back pain. Therefore, as the doctors say, the scoliosis isn't causing the pain, but it may be causing other areas to feel pain. Depends on the semantics, I think. I notice on this forum many people report relief from back pain after recovering from surgery, if they end up having to go that far. My daughter said she has different pain post-op. It's not the pain from the spine forcing her muscles and lung into awkward positions, but it's now merely the normal healing type of pain post-surgery. That means in our case, she did experience pain while her spine was curved heavily before surgery, in my opinion. I hope this helps. If you get the MRI and it shows everything is fine, I would feel comfortable with the idea that she really does feel an aggravation in her back, pain or tension or whatever. The doctor can guide you in methods to prevent the curve as well as, possibly the pain, from getting worse. Kris

gerbo
08-19-2005, 04:08 AM
Actually, I was just trying to explain why most scoliosis specialists will tell you that scoliosis does not cause pain.

So, for people who have scoliosis and no pain, I guess there's something wrong with them. ;-)

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Still, you might try reading some of Dr. Sarno's works.

--Linda

Some people have heart attacks and do not feel a thing, others do
Some people break a leg and walk on it without feeling anything, others are in excruciating pain
Some people lay on beds of nails and it doesn't bother them, others will experience lots of sharp stabs :D :D :D :D

We are all different in what we experience as we are all unique individuals with our unique physical and psychological make-up. Nothing can be absolute in this context, the logical conclusion is "some people with scoliosis will experience pain, others don't." ;) ;) ;)

The fact that something is writtent in a book doesn't make it necessarily true, and neither does the fact that a doctor says something makes it "holy gospel" :) :) :)

(thought I'd better put lots of smilies in, I get carried away a bit once I am on my soapbox, I'll get off it now)

gerbo

LindaRacine
08-19-2005, 12:37 PM
Gerbo...

You might want to see if you can attend a scoliosis screening or a pediatric scoliosis clinic. Most kids present with no pain. A relatively small percentage of kids with scoliosis do have pain. I think that most adults with scoliosis do have pain.

I honestly could care less about this debate. I don't go around telling people that scoliosis doesn't cause pain. I was simply trying to explain why I think scoliosis doctors might tell patients that scoliosis doesn't cause pain.

--Linda